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Customer Beware- Levi

WHO: Customer- Levi (Telegram: @Leviathan95 ) EDIT: Telegram username keeps changing every so often.

WHERE: Telegram

WHAT: Digital Ref(refunded $20)

WHEN: Between Sept 7th-October 19th

EXPLAIN: I had Levi commission for a fursuit ref on september 7th. He was 7th in line when he commissioned me with a lineart project in 1st and 5 small projects inbetween. Sadly I got sick with an infection the entire month of September and could not work on his reference sheet.

In October I had stopped working on a big lineart piece that was first in line to focus on his ref for the entire week of October 16th-19th. I had completed the linework of the ref and was going to color it on the 20th since I had a family emergency on the 19th but he tells me he is getting another artist to make his ref because I'm not working fast enough and I was working on other stuff that isn't his.
(Unfinished ref: https://imgur.com/hHKooX4 )

1. He was 7th in line on September 7th

2. As any normal artist working on smaller projects like icons, badges, etc is a way to take a break from big projects like lineart and refs so you can feel refreshed to come back to the big project.

3. Someone paid for a deadline for 1 week and I finished it in a day It was stated in my Telegram art channel that he was in and was able to read other messages like for example how I had halted work when I was sick.
(Proof of alerts what was posted on Art Channel: https://imgur.com/tSxpnee )

4. He was 2nd in line and I stopped working on the 1st commissioners lineart for him.

5. In the beginning of our conversations he had stated numerous times that he was in no rush for his ref to be completed. (Moments where he said it was no rush: https://imgur.com/tqgLmQD )

So he decides to lie to the fursuit maker that he was getting said fursuit from saying I pushed him to 12th in line when that wasn't even true, The maker informed me of his concerns and I had approached him with his problems.

My ToS states I only give partial refunds but I had no choice but to give him a full refund. Due to fearing he would spread rumors that I didn't give him a refund at all.
(my ToS: https://goo.gl/forms/New1kFb0HQwYtOzS2)


PROOF: Here is the entire conversation
https://imgur.com/a/tjpFK

UPDATE:
I had got in contact with the artist who had made his new reference sheet and they can confirm about his behavior that made them worried that Levi would attempt to get a refund if they did not work fast enough.
https://imgur.com/meBYbmu

Community Tags:

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Do not go after persons posted about here, by leaving comments on their art pages.
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Comments

( 29 comments — Leave a comment )
(Deleted comment)
dergish
Oct. 21st, 2017 06:09 am (UTC)
Re: Lol
I am screening this comment (please do not delete it). Name calling is not allowed in this community.
prince_mai
Oct. 21st, 2017 04:06 pm (UTC)
Re: Lol
is it possible you can send me the screenshot of the comment? they deleted it.
celestinaketzia
Oct. 21st, 2017 04:07 pm (UTC)
Re: Lol
We can send you a screenshot of anything you'd like, but it wasn't a particularly constructive set of comments. PM me or email me if you'd like them. (email is celestinaketzia at gmail)
rendrassa
Oct. 21st, 2017 01:11 pm (UTC)
Unbelievable. This is a guy I certainly don't want asking me for a commission! At least you should be able to get some of your money back if you either make an adopt from the lineart or offer a custom adopt with it. (As in you either pre-make it or let them choose the colors.)

Ultimate irony/karma would be if the new artist can't complete the ref in time for the suitmaker's start, though I'd feel bad for the suiter losing or delaying a slot.
prince_mai
Oct. 21st, 2017 04:06 pm (UTC)
oh yeah I'm going to be changing a few things and making it into an adopt or a premade for the maker to gain some extra cash for the both of us. Thank you for your response!
rendrassa
Oct. 21st, 2017 06:45 pm (UTC)
Does that mean that the maker has declined working with this customer after discovering this?
prince_mai
Oct. 21st, 2017 06:47 pm (UTC)
No they are still working with him. They need the funds sadly due to recent unexpected medical bills so he can't drop him now.


Plus he has not caused any trouble for said fursuit maker.

Edited at 2017-10-21 06:48 pm (UTC)
rendrassa
Oct. 21st, 2017 09:01 pm (UTC)
Ah, okay.
Amanda Starr
Oct. 21st, 2017 01:51 pm (UTC)
Levi
Your screenshots don't add up. You took 6 weeks, didn't provide lineart, and were not asked for a refund. She told you that she'd commission someone else and you could finish whenever.

This is an ARTIST BEWARE, not a buyer beware.
PrinceTaburyk
Oct. 21st, 2017 02:03 pm (UTC)
RE: Levi
He**** sorry. ;;
uriiko
Oct. 21st, 2017 03:17 pm (UTC)
RE: Levi
1. Six weeks for a completed reference is not that long of a wait
2. Lineart was provided in the chat between the both of them
3. It was implied that a refund was desired but that $10 was not worth bothering with
In the end, the artist dealt with an impatient commissioner, and that commissioner gained a free lined reference in the end while the artist lost time and money.
Edit to say the clean sketch provided is roughly the same as the lined reference with some small edits. Point still stands.

Edited at 2017-10-21 03:23 pm (UTC)
prince_mai
Oct. 21st, 2017 04:04 pm (UTC)
Re: Levi
he didn't get the unfinished lineart it's stated in my ToS that if refunded that you don't receive the unfinished art. (which thank you Uriiko for the response!)

If you read the screenshots Amanda I had informed him that I was working on their ref sheet this week and so they were informed and knew that I had finished the lineart on Wednesday and that it would be completed by Friday.

And if you also had read I was fighting an infection the entire month of September that left me bed ridden and unable to work.
(which is the month he had commissioned me, which again I was apologizing to him about the delays and for my sickness. to which he had said twice, he was in no rush for completion.)


It just sounds like you really didn't read through it at all Amanda.
tyrano_tiggs
Oct. 21st, 2017 04:40 pm (UTC)
RE: Levi
6 weeks since the commission started in which the buyer was 7th in the queue.
6 weeks to get to this point from that position in a queue, whilst smaller projects and health issues worked in between, is actually pretty quick compared to a lot of other artists.
The client repeatedly said they were in no rush and then suddenly, were in a rush, not long after being given the lineart. I'm sure if they'd given a specified deadline from the get go the OP would have worked something out or declined the commission if they knew they were unable to stick to it.
Yes they didn't specifically ask for a refund but the implication was they only didn't want it because it wasn't a full refund.
If the client had been waiting months with no contact at all I'd empathise but this is a complete u-turn in the space of a month when they were quite far back in a queue.
prince_mai
Oct. 21st, 2017 04:45 pm (UTC)
Re: Levi
Thank you for your response Tyrano!

When he stated that he was aware of my ToS refund policy that meant he was aware that there was a Deadline fee policy. if he has paid an extra $10 (turning the price to $30 instead of $20) I would have bumped him up the list to work on his ref faster if he had paid for the deadline fee which he did not.
levi95
Oct. 21st, 2017 10:30 pm (UTC)
RE: Levi
I’d like to clear some things up, there is a lot of missing information here and if you look at the screenshots they are manipulated to look different as you can see somehow my comments about the sketched line art come before he sent me the sketch which isn’t how that conversation went obviously(which doesn’t really change much except the timeline so it’s no issue but still that’s weird) My issue with him wasn’t anything about time, I didn’t like the fact I was being skipped for smaller projects. If that was in the ToS it would have been no issue. He should also add the screenshot where he lies to an artist group admin that I requested a refund and threatened my fursuit maker with a refund. I would also like to point out I’m not some random guy on the internet he’s local to me and even though I haven’t met him irl I have met and even went on a date with his friend who is the one making my suit and we have future dates planned. It’s true he said he would do the lineart, and he did the lineart but where in that conversation was it sent to me? Yeah..... it wasn’t. So after getting no update for two days I went with someone else and just wanted the guy to finish it whenever, no pressure. I wasn’t trying to get a refund. But things came off the wrong way and it went south quick. Was I a little harsh yeah. Did I do anything wrong for stating my feelings? No. There is nothing wrong with finding a new artist so the current artist can take his time which was the point I was trying to get across. I can show screenshots the following: Him and I trying to reconcile the situation via a meandiator in which I agree to pay him for the work he’s done(declined) his lies about the situation to said mediator and others. testimony from my fursuit maker on the situation. I’d also like to add I was never given the choice of $30 for faster art. In conclusion it’s really not that serious. If the guy would have actually talked with me instead of talking to me through other people we would have no issue.

Edited at 2017-10-21 10:38 pm (UTC)
kayla_la
Oct. 21st, 2017 10:38 pm (UTC)
Re: Levi
If you can provide solid proof that the OP is lying, please do so. But please make sure you follow our rules, censoring out any third party names, email addresses, etc etc.

As a non-mod comment, personally when I read the line about the refund, I definitely would not have taken that as 'feel free to finish it on your own time and don't worry about refunding me', as you state here, and I'm not sure many people would have. I would have been worried about a potential chargeback had I not fully refunded and would have felt pressured to do so.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with commissioning another artist, I just wanted to give another perspective for how it could have come off regardless of what you'd intended. It definitely came off to me like you wanted the transaction to end there and receive a full refund.
levi95
Oct. 21st, 2017 11:14 pm (UTC)
RE: Re: Levi
I was requested not to make their PMs public but if there is a way I can PM you the messages I can do that. Also I agree I came off the wrong way. But we tried to talk about it to no avail.
kayla_la
Oct. 21st, 2017 11:33 pm (UTC)
Re: Re: Levi
Hmm. I think I would rather you ask for permission to share caps if you've already been asked not to, even if it's through PMs (though I'd prefer it if you could share it with everyone). I would feel a little uncomfortable with you not respecting their wishes.
(Screened comment)
Re: Levi - celestinaketzia - Oct. 22nd, 2017 12:37 am (UTC) - Expand
rendrassa
Oct. 21st, 2017 11:33 pm (UTC)
Re: Levi
Artists aren't machines. Art isn't something you can just "do" without a desire to draw. The longer the project, the quicker the desire dwindles, and it only recharges after finishing a piece. That "yes, I finished" moment. But when those moments are very far apart, like a lot of long projects in a row, an artist can lose the drive to finish the project.

You were up front told you were 7th at the start and several times stated "no rush" to the artist dealing with illness. If you had been in a rush, expressed some kind of deadline when commissioning them, then the artist would have bumped you up, because the extra funds helps to improve that drive to draw it. Moral artists don't try to sell their clients something they don't need, so it's not surprising that you weren't "given the choice of $30 for faster art" because you didn't seem to need it.

I'll admit the artist should have posted the lineart to you, but if you suspected they were lying, it would have been much better to ask to see the lineart before escalating things.

Finally, you were incredibly passive aggressive when it comes to the refund. Sure, your words were "don't worry" but the undertone was "feel bad and refund me my full amount."
prince_mai
Oct. 22nd, 2017 12:39 am (UTC)
Re: Levi
I did not hide anything from the conversation. I removed any pictures of your character and information of my paypal and email.


You did say "there was no point in a refund if it's only $10" so yeah you did say you wanted a refund. and I did tell you that I would be working on your lineart Wednesday (which I did) and that I would be coloring it this week. You knew that but apparently it wasn't enough for you.

You seem to want constant interaction when I am a human being. I'm not a machine or a bot who can answer or give you everything at the snap of a finger and neither is any other artist out there. I have a life outside of the computer like a normal human being.

There is no lie for what was said and what we had talked about. I did not edit or remove anything. Go ahead and re share our entire conversation again.

EDIT: Also you stated that you knew the ToS's refund policiy so meaning you read and saw there was a deadline fee policy on the ToS that was an optional fee that you could have asked for even after payment.

When you sign and agree to a Terms of Services that means you are agree that you sat there and read the ToS

Edited at 2017-10-22 12:47 am (UTC)
whoop_zi
Oct. 22nd, 2017 12:47 am (UTC)
mod comment
Hi! Please watch your number of edits, as we get an email every time a comment is edited. Thanks!
prince_mai
Oct. 22nd, 2017 12:51 am (UTC)
Re: mod comment
oh no! sorry about that! That's good to know for the future
trunchbull
Nov. 2nd, 2017 10:02 am (UTC)
Re: Levi
I just want to correct you on something. If you're taking money for art, it's a JOB. A job isn't always something you can choose when to do. Art in the actual professional industry is something you have to do whether you feel in the mood or not, just like whether or not you have a desire to scrub floors at your job, you have to do it. There's no excuse to not have an image done because "artist block" or lack of desire. God, the amount of times i've had to draw something i didn't want to draw or when i didn't feel like drawing.

Edited at 2017-11-02 10:04 am (UTC)
spartanwerewolf
Oct. 26th, 2017 10:35 am (UTC)
RE: Levi
Six weeks is not long at all to wait for art. Artists do have lives, you know. Six months and dude might have a complaint, but six weeks is nothing. Especially with a half dozen folks in queue ahead of them.

Lineart was provided, as is clearly shown in the screenshots, and the artist offered a refund that they really didn't need to offer, since they didn't cancel.
Fralea Comms
Oct. 22nd, 2017 05:23 am (UTC)
It might be a good idea to add in your TOS that you sometimes work out of order if you do give people a set place in your queue, OP. Or just not give people numbers. While I don't think you were wrong to work on smaller projects in between, it might help avoid confusion in the future. Unless the small pieces were personal things and not commissions, in which case o__O
prince_mai
Oct. 22nd, 2017 05:38 am (UTC)
They were commissions that were completed in a span if a day

What I do is for example say i have a large lineart with a big complex background and 3 icons to work on after it.

Monday- rough sketch the background of the lineart send to commissioner to get approval

While waiting for approval which could take an hour to a day I will work on the rough sketch for the badge and send that out for approval. Then my work day is over cause it'll take me 4-6hours to work on both rough sketches
Fralea Comms
Oct. 22nd, 2017 08:08 am (UTC)
Right, I understand. I do pretty much the same thing. It was just an extra careful suggestion so your future customers don't get confused about why things "skip" the line, but you may find it unnecessary.

Edited at 2017-10-22 08:28 am (UTC)
prince_mai
Oct. 22nd, 2017 02:23 pm (UTC)
Majority of people who have commissioned me understand that concept this was the first who didn't get that even when explained. But I'll be keeping it in mine
( 29 comments — Leave a comment )

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