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Artist Advice: Paypal

So I'm new to the world of sellng art, as in just this week did I decide to sell adopts. I made a Paypal account, set it up from what I thought, read up about creating invoices, everything was going smooth until I made my first sell. At first it wouldn't let me accept money, so I upgraded to a business account. Things when fine after that, but I want to make sure I'm doing things right.

My first question is, should I have upgraded to a business account? I plan to sell more adopts in the future mind you.

Also What is the right way to set up an Invoice? One that doesn't expect me to ship something.

Sorry if I posted this wrong, I'm also new to this community.

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( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
spartanwerewolf
Sep. 23rd, 2016 10:35 pm (UTC)
Yeah, PayPal actually told me to upgrade to a business account when I was wrangling them over their policy on names. I specifically asked if not having an "official" business- I had barely started doing commissions- would be a problem and they said not to worry, they tell lots of folks to do that. You're fine c:

sperkl
Sep. 23rd, 2016 11:51 pm (UTC)
Thank you for this, I'm still getting mixed messages about rather to do invoices or not. Some say simply request money, others say to send an invoice.
gatekat
Sep. 23rd, 2016 11:59 pm (UTC)
While the benefits of an invoice might be debatable, I have yet to hear of any disadvantages to them. That makes them the recommended method to transfer money IMO.
whoop_zi
Sep. 24th, 2016 12:08 am (UTC)
I think it depends on your own personal preferences. Invoices take a few more steps on your end than just requesting money, but they also give you more control- you can attach your TOS to them and it helps keep things organized too, especially if you use a template. Whether you use invoices or request money will not make a difference as far as how long money takes to get to you or where it goes- it'll all go to the same place and show up in your transactions the same way, so you're more or less making a choice between quick vs organized.

Edited at 2016-09-24 12:09 am (UTC)
spartanwerewolf
Sep. 24th, 2016 05:14 am (UTC)
I prefer to send an invoice. I can't remember the shipping details honestly, but I do know you can add your TOS to it so that alone is a positive for me.

You can also set up a PayPal.me link, just go to paypal.me and it'll take you through the process.
thaily
Sep. 24th, 2016 08:01 am (UTC)
A big perk about invoices is that you determine what is said in it, if the buyer sends money and adds an "adult" title like "payment for hot steamy gay porn" you'd get into trouble with Paypal.
gatekat
Sep. 24th, 2016 02:05 pm (UTC)
Except that's not true.

The buyer always has the option to add a note and that note can say anything.

It definitely reduces the chances just by not requiring a subject, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's actual protection.
amocin
Sep. 24th, 2016 02:11 am (UTC)
I haven't figured out how to make it not ask me to ship something, but you can go to your invoice when the commission is done and select "Add Tracking Info" from there select from the dropdown box "Order Processed/Services Rendered". That will count it as a digital item that doesnt require shipment.
gatekat
Sep. 24th, 2016 02:17 am (UTC)
On the buyer's end there is an option to select "does not require shipping."

The seller should have it, somewhere.

Maybe someone here has found it?
stormrunner1981
Sep. 24th, 2016 04:31 am (UTC)
It is no longer on sellers end. I tend to put "agreeing to this invoice and my TOS indicates this is not for shipping" or something like that.

Just to cover my backside.
thaily
Sep. 24th, 2016 08:02 am (UTC)
I add it in the description "digital artwork - no shipping".
sableantelope
Sep. 27th, 2016 11:05 pm (UTC)
You can't do that and hope to override Paypal's TOS that you agreed to when you agreed to the convenience of their service.

Just a head's up because if you get a Paypal employee who cares enough during a random audit or a dispute you may find yourself out of an account. It's not covering your ass at all because what you try to treat with your customer is not going to get you out of any obligation in your treat with Paypal, in fact you risk maying yourself look like someone who's a risk because you are trying to weasel around the rules.


I can't rent a house with a 'no pigs allowed' in the lease, and then write in my cheque memo area 'by accepting this rent you agree that I can have ten potbellied pigs'. That's facetious, you get, but just a sort of overly simplified of example of why this doesn't work.
teekchan
Sep. 24th, 2016 05:10 am (UTC)
Ive spoken to a paypal rep on the phone and they told me to use goods, or goods and services, and that invoices are bad for digital sales as the item MUST be shipped when shipping is included, which you cannot turn off with invoices. I was told too many unshipped labels (as you have to go and tick shipped and provide shipping info) and you can get in trouble or banned.

I just tell my custoners to not include any text snd to tick no shipping.
rayesesshyfan
Sep. 25th, 2016 10:13 am (UTC)
It is possible to take off the shipping in invoice though, I've done it three times for GUI with an old client of mine.
sperkl
Sep. 24th, 2016 05:23 am (UTC)
So far what I've gathered is Paypal is confusing, reading their T.O.S wasn't much help either. I don't understand why they make it so difficult to sell digital items. :/
gatekat
Sep. 24th, 2016 02:16 pm (UTC)
Because they don't want to be used for it.

The vast majority of porn requires no shipping, and gambling these days is mostly over the internet. PayPal wants no part of it.

It's a fairly effective way to discourage those things by making it difficult and confusing to sell anything digital.
mortymaxwell
Sep. 24th, 2016 11:12 am (UTC)
As a buyer, I am wary of invoices.

Some sellers will write "paypal fee charge" on their invoices and then when you get the invoice, you feel really uncomfortable.

I also don't like how invoices collect addresses. I have yet to find a way to turn this off.

http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/805227.html?thread=30064235#t30064235

I'd rather send money the normal way.
gatekat
Sep. 24th, 2016 02:13 pm (UTC)
As the buyer, "no shipping required" is in the drop-down menu of the addresses to select.

It's bad on both sides, but as the buyer you do have the option of not giving an address.
bearprince
Sep. 24th, 2016 02:54 pm (UTC)
Sellers aren't allowed to straight up charge for PayPal's fees. Artists should already be calculating the cost of fees into their prices, and DEFINITELY shouldnt include an item for it on their invoices. That's going to get them in trouble.
bearprince
Sep. 24th, 2016 04:52 pm (UTC)
Sellers aren't allowed to straight up charge for PayPal's fees. Artists should already be calculating the cost of fees into their prices, and DEFINITELY shouldnt include an item for it on their invoices. That's going to get them in trouble.
mortymaxwell
Sep. 24th, 2016 02:20 pm (UTC)
This is specifically my concern: when a buyer pays an invoice their address gets e-mailed to the artist.

Quote from Celestina: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/805227.html?thread=30064235#t30064235
I have the "no shipping" / "Do not collect addresses" ticked on mine and it still emails me addresses. Weird.

From the time I've been using them, there seems to be no way to keep them from gathering address information in your email.

bearprince
Sep. 24th, 2016 02:22 pm (UTC)
I switched over to invoices about a year or so ago, and switched to a business account somewhat recently, and honestly? The only issues I've had with PayPal since have either come from sending too many invoices at once with the same price/description (which flags your account, but I think the same is true for people sending you pass payments for the same amount at once), and people just not paying their invoices. Invoices make me feel much more comfortable from the selling end, as I have complete control over how much im sent, what the items I'm providing are, and can include a clause specifying that the payer agrees to my TOS/will not receive a shipped item. It also helps me keep better organized.

There IS a way to mark invoices for digital items as "shipped". The service rendered option applies for anything that the buyer receives in a digital format (the site specifically mentions things like ebooks and digital music files, etc)

As far as I'm aware, the new PayPal TOS change only affects those who use PayPal for their storefront and charge for microtransactions on things like mobile games (it specifically seems to be an option removed from the seller's choice of items theyre selling or something?).

Anyway, I hope this helps. Invoices and a business accout have been nothing but an asset to me. If you make enough via Paypal you probably should look into tax information though, since that might crop up in the future (I think if you make over a certain amount PayPal sends you tax info come tax season, don't quote me on that though)
darkunisha
Sep. 24th, 2016 03:42 pm (UTC)
I think what you're talking about at the end of your comment is the 200 transactions and that the volume of those transactions add up or go above $20,000 in the given year. o:

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/irs6050w

That's what popped to mind when I thought of this.
sbneko
Sep. 24th, 2016 04:24 pm (UTC)
It says that page doesn't exist.

But should add for those reading that this only applies to the States. For out of States, they either don't keep track or you have to make a different amount.
(Deleted comment)
mortymaxwell
Sep. 24th, 2016 07:15 pm (UTC)
Is this what you are looking for? Bottom of this page...
https://www.weasyl.com/journal/85616/thorough-breakdown-of-paypal-fees-18-content-addresses

On your main Summary page for Paypal, you’ll see all your recent transactions listed below. Once an invoice is paid, it will look like this (I’ve removed the price for privacy’s sake). What you want to do is click on Add Tracking Info, which will take you to this page. Click the drop down menu for
Order Status, and you’ll see an option at the bottom named “Order Process/Service Rendered”. This is what you want to click, to tell Paypal that you don’t need to ship anything, and it can stop worrying it’s lil’ ol’ head about things. After you click it, hit save. It will show you a confirmation page which states that your customer will get an email, letting them know that their service was rendered. Your customer may contact you wondering what the heck that email is, but hopefully in time, most of the fandom will understand that annoying step (or Paypal will remove this need altogether, who knows)
( 26 comments — Leave a comment )

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