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Beware: tobeabird (Resolved)

Where: (MOVED) http://www.furaffinity.net/user/cynical-sergal/
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/tobeabird/
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/otter.nonsense

What: $897usd Fursuit parts and art

When: First payment - 20th July 2015
Last payment -Rush order- 8th July 2016

Proof: (#1st Order - Small canine kit) http://imgur.com/Cm1JdS6
(#2ed Order - Small Feline kit) http://imgur.com/CaxyqE9
(#3ed Order - Uncut Base Order) http://imgur.com/j8waCwt
(#4th Order - Art/ pictures) http://imgur.com/rBxO8j1
(#5th Order - Stuffed Tail Order) http://imgur.com/7stIhPk
(No longer Needed)
(#7th Order - Rush Order Fee) http://imgur.com/vMxKw14
(PLEASE DOWNLOAD THEM TO READ PROBABLY!)
(#8th Emails -1) http://imgur.com/sfoBqoo
(UPDATE: Emails-2) https://imgur.com/rnlzno2
(UPDATE: Emails-3) http://imgur.com/FjO3lYE
(UPDATE: Emails-4) http://imgur.com/0jfXwaB

***(This is now been marked as Resolved, I no longer wish to continue waiting for something to be done. So I wish to just leave this beware alltogether. There for it's now marked as Resolved, this way it's done and over with. Many thanks.)***

(Final Udate: Thanks paypal; Paypal states they will give a week for seller to ship the items owed, yet 2 days later they refund me anyways. Sigh... I'm glad I got the refund, but so annoyed that I waited a year plus for everything, I didn't mind the extra week. It's great they were on my side the whole time, but damn it paypal the seller had a week.
I've been shown I did skip the TOS, so at this point I'm fine with just getting the first postage costs back and nothing else, I already have the final postage costs and rush order; since it's now not offically sent or was sent on agreed rush date, then that's all I'm really owed. Because sellers TOS - States no refunds, not even partial refund, then I can not claim on items themselves, only postage since it wasn't sent, that's all I can ask for, which is fine... So from this point I'm only owed first postage costs only. Many thanks.)

Threats are made for now the second time -
(Update: Emails-5) http://imgur.com/H7di3Sy


Explain: I first saw the sellers items at the beginning of July 2015. (They have moved accounts since we first talked.)
*I asked for my first small canine kit, which came with - canine foam base, choose of static or moving jaw nose, tongue, teeth and balaclava. (20th july 2015.)
*I couldn't pay for postage at the time due to my exchange rates, so we agreed I'd pay that later, which I did (19th aug 2015.)
*Next order was for a Small Feline Kit, (It was a canine base at first, I changed my mind later) Same thing as canine, just feline shape instead (1 oct 2015.)
*Next was for a stuffed fully finished fursuit tail -black with a white tail tip- (28th oct 2015)
*Next was for - Canine form base -not cut- (29 nov 2015)
It's at this time i'm starting to ask for photo's or progress. I get Messages explaining they are having a bit of a hard time. Sorry for all your troubles, I have them also, I have had bad ones for years without knowing I had them.
*Next I see they offer art and seem to be doing them pretty quickly, well at the time they were -(1 Dec 2015) and (22 Dec 2015.)
*NO LONGER NEEDED*
I'm getting upset, annoyed and starting to loss myself, I have a metal breakdown. But it's not just this seller, I've had a truly bad time mentally many times over the years, so I'm now on pills etc to help me. At this time I break down to the point I snap and say and do things I truly do regret, but I do not remember doing them. I see what I said, and I say I'm sorry and I really do mean it, I'm normally the very nice and claim type, so this shocked me just as much as it did everyone else at the time, including the seller.
*I offer a (Rush Order fee -8th Jul 2016) And we agreed on everything to be done beginning of August. Everything is done at the beginning of August, so all I need do is pay the difference in postage.

Final Postage Has Now Been Paid = 8/09/2016. (Proof = http://imgur.com/63VTKGU )

((I have not had much time to update this, I'm very sorry for that.)) I was just worried after all the emails mentioning I would get final postage cost, but at the time didn't seem to be happening, that I posted this beware up in the first place. ((But I did get one later, which has been paid for.)) I've had bad sales before and many times sellers promised me this day then that day, and it was kinda the same here or at least seemed that way, so I got fustarded thinking it's happening again, it's where my mind went automatically, so I filed a beware. I got the final postage cost, but also was informed to include the facts I was ok with waiting at first, that I understood at the time I had to wait for everything to be shipped together. Which you can read our emails for yourselves. I may have made this beware to soon and without warning, but with the stuff around I had been given, how could I not think my money was being taken for nothing in return. I was over thinking things and jumped to just thinking nothing but bad thoughts about everything, I should not have done that, but at the same time I wasn't being reassured with photo's I had asked for muliple times, if at all I even got them once, I would have waited with no issues at all, so I'm sorry, but at the same time I have the rights to think badly when nothing was truly being provided, other then emails stating I would get it etc - Many times the same email, it seemed like copy/paste and nothing else. ((PLEASE DOWNLOAD THE EMAILS TO READ THEM PROBABLY!)) In hindsight I should have just asked for each one to be sent by themselves, I know this for future refference I will not make that mistake again. Again I'm sorry.

I did rush into making this beware, and I am sorry for that, but I also had rights to do so, I do not need to give a warning that I would post one, stating this is a threat is it not? No matter how I worded it, even as nice as I could, it would not have mattered, as I was informing them I'd post a beware If I did not get my products, and doing so is a threat, this is exactly why I didn't give any warning at all. I did offer to pay taxi fare and was told to wait longer because they wished to shipped items together, again I get that, saves time and money. But I offered the taxi fare, I wish they took it, I would never have posted this beware otherwise. I would have had this shipped - 23ed - maybe 26th August. It would have been over and done with already. First try at posting it failed due to the post office getting it wrong with the details, USPS takes two weeks to refund the shipping, so I waited that.

They informed me of the refund being put back - 29/09/2016 - They informed me Tuesday works for them best they would sent it then - Which would have been - 04/10/2016.  (It's now today - 04/11/2016.) One month supposesly after getting the refund. They could ship it any Tuesday from when the refund was given, but they didn't. I gave a final date and never got a reply, If they simply asked me 'could I wait til the last day for them to send it'  I never got an emailing asking for that, I never would have placed a dispute to paypal on the final day. I heard nothing for 2 weeks after I asked if I could not reply to them anymore, since the emails were always seeming the same. I never said I didn't want them to contact me at all. Even a simple 'I understand, I'll message you when I ship it, give me til such and such date, or provide me a Final date for me to work off' All this could have been avorded if I had gotten that request.

If seller wishes to block or remove me later then that's fine I get it, I do not wish to order anymore anyway. There's not much else I can say. I will ask the admins to mark this as resolved once I have gotten the items I paid for, as that's all that is needed now, nothing else. I'm not even fused if I get the art anymore, I just want the items at this point nothing else.

Final actual item that was orderd was the Uncut canine Base = (29 nov 2015) - Still almost a year ago actually, 10 months if we are to get techial.

Many thanks for reading.

*Updates Provided above, hopefully that is ok?*
(Admins have requested that I update this again so they may keep track of how things are going.)
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

celestinaketzia
Nov. 7th, 2016 03:55 pm (UTC)
If you had a tracking number registered to this dispute, then why didn't the package arrive yet? Where does it read at?
PB_Willow
Nov. 7th, 2016 05:23 pm (UTC)
When I talked to paypal last week I told them that I wouldn't be able to drop off the package (this was before I even purchased the shipping from my own money) 'til Monday (today) around noon my time (EST). The paypal pulled at 9:30 something am? Which halted my ability to drop it off because I take a taxi / uber which pulls from my paypal. When the account is in the negative, I can't do anything so I'm just stuck indoors until the account pays back what I owe.

I just got off the phone with paypal so I assume the client, after reading my email today, will be updating this beware to un-resolved.

As per PayPal's advice, we closed down the remaining disputes she had opened and dropped my account into full negative as shown here: https://i.gyazo.com/69273cb74413ba5f4cd911c02522691c.png

She was refunded every penny of the disputes back and so now I have been advised to re-list all the products for sale and get a refund on the shipping since that was my own money, from USPS. That refund will take til the 16th but I'll have it back by the end of the month at least.
I was told to just blacklist the client, that it's okay these things happen sometimes with selling to impatient buyers and since I have never had an issue like this with paypal before in the 10 years I've had the account, no collection agency is going to come after me, everything is going to be okay, yadda yadda. (Sorry if this sounds weird, I'm sort of in a panic and trying to reassure myself a bit too.)

Since the client's tangible items she purchased are being re-sold, I still will owe a partial refund for the remaining products. I can't say right now just what that amount is so I will keep updating this thread when I do the math. But since the products were listed for sale as non-refundable, I am holding true to my TOS of the non-refundable 30% deposit that is with all my products and the remaining funds will be given to the client once every product re-sells.

I was warned by paypal that if she tries to send funds to me to get the items, to call them immediately and they will do something about it to make sure she doesn't try to send more money or try to get the products.

One of the bases is already one hold for re-sale so I don't think I will have any issues of re-selling the items quickly to get this matter entirely resolved.

Once she is partially refunded for the remaining bit, should I send proof into the mods / admins? How do I go about getting a mod / admin to mark this as resolved as I'm unsure the client will do so after realizing she will not be getting the product and just a partial refund?

Paypal told me that I was given wrong information last week. That giving a tracking number doesn't do anything until the tracking updates and shows it's on it's way. Even though I told them I wouldn't be able to drop the package off yet, the lady I spoke to last week told me that was fine and nothing would happen but the lady I spoke to today said no, that wasn't true and it would have had to be dropped off on Friday. Had I known that I would not have gone to class or anything and used the money to go to the post instead of when I was getting paid today. Lesson learned there and I made sure to get all information from paypal on how long I have to refund the client, how long I have to pull my account from the negative, etc. etc.

Pretty much I just have to re-sell the items and get a refund out asap. Hoping that can happen this week so this can be done and over for good.
kayla_la
Nov. 7th, 2016 06:54 pm (UTC)
A refund would be best at this point. However, be advised that if you did not alert the buyer to your TOS or tell them there would be a non-refundable deposit, you can not keep that money.
PB_Willow
Nov. 7th, 2016 08:29 pm (UTC)
Actually all of the products were listed on the sale post as completely non-refundable. And at the bottom of the sales it has my TOS linked and says 'by purchasing you are agreeing to the TOS'. I do not refund bases because it is not like I can just un-expand the foam and not lose the product or risk it not re-selling.

Under every sale that the client purchased from, the exact same pricing, information and TOS is linked. The same post saying "by purchasing you are agreeing to the TOS" is written down.

For small parts, such as the tail, they are also purchased under the same TOS. Once work is started, I do not refund for small parts nor bases. Larger fursuit sales are done under a different TOS so this client's TOS is plastered all over every sale she took.
PB_Willow
Nov. 7th, 2016 08:33 pm (UTC)
And yes, I agree. She has a partial refund already but until the products re-sell, and the account goes back into the green vs red, I can't do anything about the remaining refund. We've been talking via email again since that's what paypal said that's all I can do since all the disputes on the payments have been closed out entirely. They said do not accept anymore payments or money from her nor her partner which she's been trying to have me do is accept money from him for new shipping. I'm not comfortable at all with this commission anymore so it's best to terminate, refund and move on.
PB_Willow
Nov. 7th, 2016 05:43 pm (UTC)
Also I should mention again, I'm in the USA and the client is in Australia. So even if the package was dropped off Friday or today it would take a minimum of 7 business days to even arrive to their country. They didn't pay for expedited shipping and since they pulled all the shipping funds as that was the only payment they could tackle, I didn't have enough personal money in my account to upgrade shipping.
kitzwing
Nov. 7th, 2016 05:44 pm (UTC)
I honestly didn't know they wanted it shipped Friday either, I got told nothing, they never informed me of anything, they didn't even call me or email me to have permission to take it out today.

I would have said look give the week you were meant to give, I was told over the phone you'd give a week, what the heck is going on?

So yeah I don't know what to do either, I know I can not pay again they won't let me anyway I bit they wont. Other then asking for the rest I'm owed besides the deposit, which I still to this day never knew about, or was told what/ how much it was.

I just can't do much else myself, I sure I was told they would give a week, I'll call tomorrow and ask why etc. But since it's already being re-instated into my account, I can't just put it back. I could get a friend or partner to pay on my behalf, but not sure if that be ok or what ever.

Edited at 2016-11-07 05:58 pm (UTC)
kayla_la
Nov. 7th, 2016 06:47 pm (UTC)
When you purchased the items, were you not linked to a TOS or told there would be a non-refundable deposit?
kitzwing
Nov. 7th, 2016 11:23 pm (UTC)
I truly didn't know there was one. I differently wasn't at least told how much I'd be losing for that deposit.

I get some makers, artist have it, but they never emailed me early on what it was, only that I was ordering the products for such and such price and that I was told ages back at first I'd get everything July. Then the wait from there went on...

I only knew much later after trying to ask for my first refund as I had some bad things happening to me at the time, was told I could not get one, yet the newer messages this month state I could get one if I placed it as terminated, pretty sure asking to get a refund, and please resale everything the first time counted as me requesting please terminate.

It's also at this time the seller started posting TOS Journls, I had not seen one before this, or was never linked to one, never emailed one etc. I only knew then there was one, not anything else about it.

Edited at 2016-11-07 11:24 pm (UTC)
kayla_la
Nov. 7th, 2016 11:31 pm (UTC)
They mention here: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/923663.html?thread=32626959#t32626959 That there would have been a link on the sales page. Though I also re-read the first series of PMs and didn't see a mention of a TOS.

Whether or not you agreed to this TOS is an important point. They swear that it would have been linked on the sales page. Do you have a cap/link to the original sales page? Did you perhaps just scroll past it, or?

They can't hold you to a TOS you didn't agree to and weren't told about, but if it was indeed there and you simply glossed past it, that would be on you.
kitzwing
Nov. 7th, 2016 11:49 pm (UTC)
It's from the 22/07/2016 I then knew they had one -
http://imgur.com/sfoBqoo since they then informed me of it by email. But same time they clearly state I can not get a refund, yet this month I can, that's what confuses me at the moment.

First order they didn't include it in the emails, when you sell an item you must also include a TOS in the email to conform the buyer understands. I might have gone passed it by mistake on there original post, it happens often with any buyer, it's why it should be added to the emails/ notes as well. http://imgur.com/Cm1JdS6

When I ordered the tail they never emailed me the TOS then either -http://imgur.com/7stIhPk

The art I ordered I never got emailed or noted one -
http://imgur.com/rBxO8j1

Over all I truly didn't know, til later they had one. If they had included it in the emails, notes to me at first, I would have given more time, and left it at what it was originally at here, the beware only.

P.S. I was informed over the phone a TOS does not count legally unless they are a fully licensed business and unless an official contract is also signed as well, with a witness being friend, family or lawyer.

Edited at 2016-11-07 11:55 pm (UTC)
PB_Willow
Nov. 8th, 2016 12:42 am (UTC)
I do not email the TOS to any buyer for small parts (tails, ears, small premade items), all the TOS terms are posted in each sales post, which those sale posts that date back to the start of all the transactions, do indeed have them linked (the tos / terms) and do indeed say that by purchasing, you're agreeing to the terms. The only tos that is on an emailed form is for whole fursuit commission sales.

Sales posts found here:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6839825/ (tos in the post / terms of purchase in the post
And again: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6129590/
And again: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/17761581/ (this one links back to all the information, tos, etc.)

In all 3 posts in which the client either contacted me via note or in the comments to claim the purchase, all of the posts said, once work is started it's non refundable.

By offering to re-sell and refund, I'm already going out-side of the terms. The only thing that is null from the sales is the turn around time since the client wanted to repeatedly purchase more and more items but not have me ship, as we've both confirmed during this whole beware thing, because it would be 'cheaper' for them to just have it all shipped into 1 large package. The comments should also show that they also asked for delayed payments / wait time for funds as well.

The terms were everywhere, it's not my job to make sure a client reads them, by following through with their purchase, as my terms say, they are agreeing. Like you said if it's glossed past, it's on the client.
PB_Willow
Nov. 8th, 2016 12:56 am (UTC)
Found another post with the journal linking back as well that the client claimed in the comments on:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/16977023/
(no subject) - kitzwing - Nov. 8th, 2016 01:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - PB_Willow - Nov. 8th, 2016 01:48 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kitzwing - Nov. 8th, 2016 01:57 am (UTC) - Expand
mod comment - celestinaketzia - Nov. 8th, 2016 02:00 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - kitzwing - Nov. 8th, 2016 02:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - PB_Willow - Nov. 8th, 2016 02:07 am (UTC) - Expand
PB_Willow
Nov. 8th, 2016 12:52 am (UTC)
I also want to point out the time stamps on my Base orders journal which has the terms for purchasing, prices and contact information, is dated back to Sep. 20th 2014. The client's orders with me were not for another year after that. So for it to be said that tos journals were posted by they had no knowledge of it when that pricing, tos / terms journal is my main source to sell the bases off of, is not true. The same sale journal was reposted in every sale post to make sure I didn't have to sit here and keep re-typing it all up over and over. Efficiently I just copy/paste the information journal with all the prices and clients email me or note me to claim a base or write comments. If they skim past all the information but still send in that payment when the journal with all the tos / terms is linked and it clearly says "by purchasing you are agreeing" it is not my fault for them not knowing.

I've had these same TOS for the last 3 years, I'm certainly not going to over-look it for one sales post when this is my only source of income. TOS's are there to protect both artists and clients.
PB_Willow
Nov. 8th, 2016 01:05 am (UTC)
I was doing more digging and I found this! This was from the very first base commission back a month before they contacted me to start payment plans.

On June 30th they inquired about the prices and terms and I linked them the journal and you can see in this screen shot here: https://i.gyazo.com/299497b6bd53fada750c9d51a2b92813.png
I even said "prices, information and terms of purchasing" The client replied saying they would save the links and those are the same links I have linked above.

Here's the original post from this screen shot as well: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/16977023/

So back before even the first payment was received when they were just mauling it over about commissioning me, they were given these terms of purchase.

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