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Beware: tobeabird (Resolved)

Where: (MOVED) http://www.furaffinity.net/user/cynical-sergal/

What: $897usd Fursuit parts and art

When: First payment - 20th July 2015
Last payment -Rush order- 8th July 2016

Proof: (#1st Order - Small canine kit) http://imgur.com/Cm1JdS6
(#2ed Order - Small Feline kit) http://imgur.com/CaxyqE9
(#3ed Order - Uncut Base Order) http://imgur.com/j8waCwt
(#4th Order - Art/ pictures) http://imgur.com/rBxO8j1
(#5th Order - Stuffed Tail Order) http://imgur.com/7stIhPk
(No longer Needed)
(#7th Order - Rush Order Fee) http://imgur.com/vMxKw14
(#8th Emails -1) http://imgur.com/sfoBqoo
(UPDATE: Emails-2) https://imgur.com/rnlzno2
(UPDATE: Emails-3) http://imgur.com/FjO3lYE
(UPDATE: Emails-4) http://imgur.com/0jfXwaB

***(This is now been marked as Resolved, I no longer wish to continue waiting for something to be done. So I wish to just leave this beware alltogether. There for it's now marked as Resolved, this way it's done and over with. Many thanks.)***

(Final Udate: Thanks paypal; Paypal states they will give a week for seller to ship the items owed, yet 2 days later they refund me anyways. Sigh... I'm glad I got the refund, but so annoyed that I waited a year plus for everything, I didn't mind the extra week. It's great they were on my side the whole time, but damn it paypal the seller had a week.
I've been shown I did skip the TOS, so at this point I'm fine with just getting the first postage costs back and nothing else, I already have the final postage costs and rush order; since it's now not offically sent or was sent on agreed rush date, then that's all I'm really owed. Because sellers TOS - States no refunds, not even partial refund, then I can not claim on items themselves, only postage since it wasn't sent, that's all I can ask for, which is fine... So from this point I'm only owed first postage costs only. Many thanks.)

Threats are made for now the second time -
(Update: Emails-5) http://imgur.com/H7di3Sy

Explain: I first saw the sellers items at the beginning of July 2015. (They have moved accounts since we first talked.)
*I asked for my first small canine kit, which came with - canine foam base, choose of static or moving jaw nose, tongue, teeth and balaclava. (20th july 2015.)
*I couldn't pay for postage at the time due to my exchange rates, so we agreed I'd pay that later, which I did (19th aug 2015.)
*Next order was for a Small Feline Kit, (It was a canine base at first, I changed my mind later) Same thing as canine, just feline shape instead (1 oct 2015.)
*Next was for a stuffed fully finished fursuit tail -black with a white tail tip- (28th oct 2015)
*Next was for - Canine form base -not cut- (29 nov 2015)
It's at this time i'm starting to ask for photo's or progress. I get Messages explaining they are having a bit of a hard time. Sorry for all your troubles, I have them also, I have had bad ones for years without knowing I had them.
*Next I see they offer art and seem to be doing them pretty quickly, well at the time they were -(1 Dec 2015) and (22 Dec 2015.)
I'm getting upset, annoyed and starting to loss myself, I have a metal breakdown. But it's not just this seller, I've had a truly bad time mentally many times over the years, so I'm now on pills etc to help me. At this time I break down to the point I snap and say and do things I truly do regret, but I do not remember doing them. I see what I said, and I say I'm sorry and I really do mean it, I'm normally the very nice and claim type, so this shocked me just as much as it did everyone else at the time, including the seller.
*I offer a (Rush Order fee -8th Jul 2016) And we agreed on everything to be done beginning of August. Everything is done at the beginning of August, so all I need do is pay the difference in postage.

Final Postage Has Now Been Paid = 8/09/2016. (Proof = http://imgur.com/63VTKGU )

((I have not had much time to update this, I'm very sorry for that.)) I was just worried after all the emails mentioning I would get final postage cost, but at the time didn't seem to be happening, that I posted this beware up in the first place. ((But I did get one later, which has been paid for.)) I've had bad sales before and many times sellers promised me this day then that day, and it was kinda the same here or at least seemed that way, so I got fustarded thinking it's happening again, it's where my mind went automatically, so I filed a beware. I got the final postage cost, but also was informed to include the facts I was ok with waiting at first, that I understood at the time I had to wait for everything to be shipped together. Which you can read our emails for yourselves. I may have made this beware to soon and without warning, but with the stuff around I had been given, how could I not think my money was being taken for nothing in return. I was over thinking things and jumped to just thinking nothing but bad thoughts about everything, I should not have done that, but at the same time I wasn't being reassured with photo's I had asked for muliple times, if at all I even got them once, I would have waited with no issues at all, so I'm sorry, but at the same time I have the rights to think badly when nothing was truly being provided, other then emails stating I would get it etc - Many times the same email, it seemed like copy/paste and nothing else. ((PLEASE DOWNLOAD THE EMAILS TO READ THEM PROBABLY!)) In hindsight I should have just asked for each one to be sent by themselves, I know this for future refference I will not make that mistake again. Again I'm sorry.

I did rush into making this beware, and I am sorry for that, but I also had rights to do so, I do not need to give a warning that I would post one, stating this is a threat is it not? No matter how I worded it, even as nice as I could, it would not have mattered, as I was informing them I'd post a beware If I did not get my products, and doing so is a threat, this is exactly why I didn't give any warning at all. I did offer to pay taxi fare and was told to wait longer because they wished to shipped items together, again I get that, saves time and money. But I offered the taxi fare, I wish they took it, I would never have posted this beware otherwise. I would have had this shipped - 23ed - maybe 26th August. It would have been over and done with already. First try at posting it failed due to the post office getting it wrong with the details, USPS takes two weeks to refund the shipping, so I waited that.

They informed me of the refund being put back - 29/09/2016 - They informed me Tuesday works for them best they would sent it then - Which would have been - 04/10/2016.  (It's now today - 04/11/2016.) One month supposesly after getting the refund. They could ship it any Tuesday from when the refund was given, but they didn't. I gave a final date and never got a reply, If they simply asked me 'could I wait til the last day for them to send it'  I never got an emailing asking for that, I never would have placed a dispute to paypal on the final day. I heard nothing for 2 weeks after I asked if I could not reply to them anymore, since the emails were always seeming the same. I never said I didn't want them to contact me at all. Even a simple 'I understand, I'll message you when I ship it, give me til such and such date, or provide me a Final date for me to work off' All this could have been avorded if I had gotten that request.

If seller wishes to block or remove me later then that's fine I get it, I do not wish to order anymore anyway. There's not much else I can say. I will ask the admins to mark this as resolved once I have gotten the items I paid for, as that's all that is needed now, nothing else. I'm not even fused if I get the art anymore, I just want the items at this point nothing else.

Final actual item that was orderd was the Uncut canine Base = (29 nov 2015) - Still almost a year ago actually, 10 months if we are to get techial.

Many thanks for reading.

*Updates Provided above, hopefully that is ok?*
(Admins have requested that I update this again so they may keep track of how things are going.)
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


( 80 comments — Leave a comment )
Sep. 1st, 2016 12:12 am (UTC)
Some of the files are hard to read (especially the email one) but your actions are justified, you paid for a product that may not have even been shipped out yet. There is another beware floating around about the same thing, someone paid for a suit from them about a year or two ago and still have yet to receive it.

I hope what you paid for eventually shows up, or that you get your refund. $947USD, especially with the conversion from AUD, is a lot to lose.
Sep. 1st, 2016 12:23 am (UTC)
Best to download everything I have in Proof, then zoom in. I didn't wish to give to many links is all.

But yeah I'm hoping I either get everything sent to me or possibly get a refund. I'm fine with either at this point. -_-
(no subject) - PB_Willow - Sep. 11th, 2016 04:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kattotang - Sep. 18th, 2016 05:39 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 1st, 2016 10:13 pm (UTC)
I do think you're right to be upset over them making you wait even longer for their own convenience when you paid for it to be sent quickly.

I do not think it's fair to blame them for your mental breakdown.
Sep. 2nd, 2016 12:22 am (UTC)
After the amount of emails mentioning it be sent this day, that day I over reacted and to quickly made this beware without truly thinking.

New updates are now provided. I should have waited a little longer, I wasn't sure I'd ever get the final postage cost, as at the time it seemed like I wouldn't. But I was wrong and I did get the final cost, that has now been paid. Tracking number is all that is needed now.

Owning up to ones mistakes is the first step to becoming a better person. And I know I jumped to this beware to fast now, that's completely my fault, I can not make up for that. I'm trying to make up for it by fixing this beware to show I was at fault for rushing into filing one to quickly. But it probably still doesn't truly make up for anything. Again sorry for all this.

Edited at 2016-09-09 01:07 am (UTC)
Sep. 5th, 2016 10:32 am (UTC)
Wow, that is a lot of stuff to commission them for and you haven't received any of it? Good grief. I really hope that this beware lights a fire under them because this is extremely unacceptable business practice. You don't wait nearly a year (or over a year in some cases) to ship items, there is truly no excuse for it.

Then to charge a rush fee? Out of all of that, I genuinely hope that they refund you for that.
Sep. 7th, 2016 11:29 am (UTC)
The client did not wait a full year, it's just shy of 7 months after final payment which is when almost all artists consider a suit, art or product to be on their queue. I also did not charge the rush fee up front, it was an offer made by the client to flip around my queue and have them up front vs waiting for the other projects ahead of theirs to be done. If the client did not want a rush order, it would have never of even been brought up. The products were paid for the rush order and I met the goal for said rush. I'm still waiting on them to pay for shipping so I can ship out the items. Although, yes, they did wait a while for the products, the lack of shipping is not due to just not sending it out, it's just that they wanted me to wait on shipping until everything was done so they could save money and not have to have a new package mailed out to their country every time they ordered (especially since one box/base is $75 for their country but all together in a nice big box saves them nearly $150ish, which is totally understandable.)
They haven't finished paying for shipping so even despite meeting the rush deadline, shipping is the main issue right now. I'm only just waiting on that so we can get the products out.
(no subject) - kitzwing - Sep. 9th, 2016 01:05 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 7th, 2016 11:23 am (UTC)
I'm only going to type out a single comment for now especially since we have been trying to settle things for a while via email and it wasn't until tonight that I was even made aware of this post.

I already tried many times to compensate for the time it took but all of this was denied by you, yourself. I spoke with several other artists, plush makers and even fur suit makers and the biggest issue for you is the wait time. But the thing is you did not wait a year.

While yes, the first item was purchased a year ago, you chose yourself to not have me send the first head base out because you wanted your items to be sent out in one solid package to avoid having to pay nearly $100 every time you purchased something. It went from one item to two and then to three and so on and so forth. Every time, it raised the postage cost and it also kept setting you back further and further into the queue.

When you purchased one item and then a month or two later, another, the clients between that time that also purchased same items, were ahead of your newer items. You knew this because I told you that there were other small parts ahead of yours and it was even listed in the queue. (I'm speaking past tense because the items ahead of yours are already done so they aren't still active commissions anymore.) It wasn't just once that this happened, this was several times that you added things on that needed to be in the same box for you. So when one base was done and another added a month or two later, it would set back once again the time to get the product and it's like the commission starts all over again. New product, new spot in line. First in, first out.

None of the shipping was totaled because I have never shipped to your country before, it was impossible for me to tell you the exact cost based on a weight I was unsure of. So it was agreed shipping would come after the products if more shipping needed to be paid.

I understand that waiting is hard but when you put so much added work over and over again and have the artist hold onto -everything- it can no longer be -all- on the artist for a wait time. You were not without communication, even the emails you showed above show constant communication and any little thing that went wrong / caused any sort of delays were made known to you. Every time it was always "an ok thing" and "I didn't need to worry". It wasn't until July that you wanted this all done and out the door asap which I understood. You offered the rush fee and I see comments about me charging it, I need it to be known here and now that I did not forcibly charge that said fee. You made an offer amount based on the amount of product you purchased and I agreed to get the products done within the rush time frame. I did just that.

The AB was posted during the time that we've been talking about shipping and it says it'll be updated but I see no updates posted. I gave you the quoted amount for shipping. I did not say at all that I wanted to ship your package out with another client's I said I was going to the post that same day to get the estimate, that's in the emails you provided. I have given you the estimate and you have not paid the remaining $98 usd owed for shipping in order for me to send this package out. I'm still waiting on the remaining shipping.

There can't be a refund for something already completed that I'm waiting on shipping money for. I understand you're upset but there's a lot more factors to this that haven't been posted in this post on top of not telling the truth about postage.

On top of this all, it was extremely unfair to blame one's mental break down on an artist or on anyone for that matter. You had apologized for this and bringing it up again is a bit shocking. You did not state in your apology to me that the wait time was the sole cause of your break down but telling others that it was is either lying to myself or to them. I don't think it's fair you had to wait, no, but you were made aware of why things were set back with everything I went through this year and you were fine up until the rush fee that you offered before putting the breakdown on me.
Sep. 8th, 2016 02:42 am (UTC)
I posted this Artist beware a while back, when you had not talked to me for about 4 days. So I posted it before our latest talk which I still have not yet had time to update, but I will very soon. Hopefully today If I can.

I will be paying the $98 that you stated, you had not yet conformed you had $100 difference that was already paid yet til today in your email. I will let artist beware know to put it as resolved once I'm given the tracking number. I still do not want the maine coon tail, I will still either sell or trade it later. Again I need to update this AB.

If you download this - http://imgur.com/q59k8gd I was told June at first. You conformed one month later you had it 80% done. And finally one month later you conformed all that was needed was postage difference. That's 2 months later, from being told at first June, then we agreed on early august, we are now in early September by the way. I was told - it done such and such day, Then shipped such and such day, I waited a day or so asked again, and did this maybe 3 times til now. I asked multiple times for photo's still haven't gotten any.

Artist Beware have a rule that once I post one, it can not be removed it can only be marked as resolved. It's what they told me. I clearly show I ordered more over time, also when filling this out I need to state when the order started, hence tech it is a year ago in a since. Though in the long run maybe 8 months or so.

Sep. 7th, 2016 11:23 am (UTC)
(it cut me off)
Again, the time frame of your actual wait is not a year, break downs cannot be thrown onto one person / company and I am still waiting for your shipping money from you so this package can be sent out.
Sep. 7th, 2016 11:31 am (UTC)
I also forgot to also add that the tail for the adopt; the maine coon, you emailed me two weeks ago saying that you didn't want the tail because you're selling the character. I told you that you are in charge of making sure the tail goes to the new owner, I am not in charge of a re-purchase for shipping. You said for me to wait for you to tell me whether or not you wanted me to send said adopt tail with the package or not depending on it's own sale. I still haven't heard about the tail so I'm unsure whether I'm supposed to keep it or put it in the box.
Sep. 8th, 2016 02:54 am (UTC)
If you have proof of anything you're refuting here, we highly suggest you include it. Properly censored of email addresses and real life names as per community standards.
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(Deleted comment)
Sep. 24th, 2016 01:36 pm (UTC)
I mention - I know this for future reference. Meaning I know not to do it again, so anything else I order from now on, I will be making sure to talk it over 100%, before anything else ever again.
As for providing personal, they had also done so a couple times, so at the time I thought stating my troubles like they had there's, they'd understand.
But I won't do that again either since no one tends to care for mine, even though many different cases I care for these...

Edited at 2016-09-24 02:52 pm (UTC)
Nov. 3rd, 2016 02:41 am (UTC)
Not sure where to put this so I am just going to drop it off here? The first tracking number was given on time however when I went to drop it off, the post told me that I had not filled out the information properly and that they wouldn't be able to ship it out until then. Since I cannot afford to pay for shipping for a client by myself, as clients pay their own shipping, we had to wait for a refund. Refund has been back into my account and I had to wait for a week where I had funds for the taxi (again) and time away from work and school to ship out again.
3 payments were placed on a hold today by the client despite the client having made the arrangement that I had until the end of the 2nd to provide a new tracking number. I have already been talking with paypal and they have been given all evidence they need to halt the claims made against my account since the products are done and tracking is provided.

Tracking number here: https://i.gyazo.com/80d085228dab20fdbda7ef81f0953f89.png

I was informed to treat this with caution since the money for the product is on hold but I have to send the client the products anyways. I was warned to counter-beware and warn the client that I am doing so if the funds are not released when the client has the products as this is considered a scam for free products regardless of any issues between us prior. Paypal has promised me the funds will be released once the tracking updates showing it's in the client's country, and the funds will go back to me. Should this not be the case, I will be posting a counter beware and taking this up with paypal again and pursuing further actions as the client would have product and money for product.

I marked out the address, my full name and my account information on the screen shot however that shows the purchase for shipping and the mail arrival date. The post office is closed at nights for my city so the package is being dropped off tomorrow morning and I will be posting comments with screen shots to update this thread so it can be seen that it's headed to the client.

Unsure right now what more to say. I'm a bit upset and just trying to be calm and informative and providing proof of shipping to get this taken care of so the client and I can go our separate ways.
Nov. 3rd, 2016 02:45 am (UTC)
Also adding, when I got the first tracking number out the USPS click n' ship site didn't have clear instructions and confused me horribly on how to list all products going into another country. Due to not having instructions, I did exactly as the site instructed by listing all the items. The post office when I went to drop it off last month were the ones that said I did it wrong when I asked (due to having anxiety about if I had done it correct or not). Which is what forced the wait of the refund of shipping. Again, it would have been out on time had the usps site of been a bit more helpful than it is for international packages and first-time online users. The client was peaceful and totally understanding - I can provide email conversation of the incident for proof upon request. Everything after this post was made became find until today.
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Nov. 3rd, 2016 02:48 am (UTC) - Expand
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Nov. 8th, 2016 01:47 am (UTC)
Thanks paypal you morons. Paypal states they will give a week for seller to ship the items owed, yet 2 days later they refund me anyways, and make what was already bad, into actual Hell.

I mean I'm glad I got the refund, but so very pissed that I waited a year plus for everything, I didn't mind the extra week, I would have got what I ordered. Sighh.... It's great they were on my side the whole time, but damn it paypal the seller had a week. Sigh...

What's done is done, I'm now forever the bad guy when I wanted to try for this last change. Damn it paypal, just damn it...

I truly missed the TOS, it's slightly unfair to make buyers never get at least a partial refund though. What if they never get it, yet they still can't claim? That's what has truly upset me, they get a change to have the funds for free, nothing can be done all because there TOS states you can't claim. How is it truly fair they get the change to keep it all because they refuse to refund any order. So the buyer sets there hoping the sellers word is kept, as that's all they have to go off, and nothing else.

I've never had any other seller do that, they offer at least a partial one or at least half. But to have a change for nothing at all, only a promised word that you'll get it, and nothing else. Sorry but promises can and many times have been broken. The buyer gets no true facts it's true, just promises and hopes it is, fallowed by broken hearts because it may never be kept.

In this case Paypal is now to blame, as they stated they would give that week and they didn't. $%*# you paypal, just damn it.

Seller has agreed and stated they are willing to give a partial refund, but may be some time due to needing to re-sell everything. Which is fine, I don't expect it at this point though... So what ever happens, happens so I hope they kept to that, but can't do much if they don't...

I will mark this as resolved when I get that partial refund, If one is to be given etc. If not it pretty much is resolved at this point I guess. So I'm fine with what ever the admins decide to do. If you wish to mark it as such now do so.

Many thanks. Sorry it went this way...

Edited at 2016-11-08 01:50 am (UTC)
Nov. 8th, 2016 01:52 am (UTC)
A few things.

Paypal's claims process takes three days. I don't know why they told you that, but I've had to do it twice. It takes three days, and if the tracking number is not supplied, or is not reading delivered you get a refund.

If the seller wants to now claim they have a no refunds clause, then they absolutely must get in writing that the client agrees. Otherwise their no refunds clause can be considered moot.
(no subject) - kitzwing - Nov. 8th, 2016 02:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Nov. 8th, 2016 02:03 am (UTC) - Expand
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Nov. 8th, 2016 01:58 am (UTC)
Just a reminder to both of you:

All comments and edits are emailed to moderators. Please be aware of this when you're leaving comments and editing them multiple times. As you can see this can quickly become spammy for all of us on staff.
Nov. 8th, 2016 02:10 am (UTC)
Alright thank you! I am commenting via a twitter account? And for some odd reason it said "gate-way timed out" and didn't post one of my comments, so I went back through and re-wrote it and broke it down in a bit more of a mathematical manner to help. I hope that didn't cause an issue. My tablet is what I am writing from. I also don't know how to edit posts so I'm just commenting as I can. Again, I hope it's not causing a huge mess in the comments.
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Nov. 8th, 2016 02:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - PB_Willow - Nov. 8th, 2016 02:21 am (UTC) - Expand
Dec. 16th, 2016 04:02 am (UTC)
Update: Still trying to re-sell all the products. Thus far no items have sold.
Dec. 17th, 2016 12:55 am (UTC)
I would like to leave this as final message -
I am stating/ marking from today that only $84 for first lot of postage is owed, and ONLY that is owed.

First lot here: http://imgur.com/Cm1JdS6

Please read final message to seller -

This can be paid any time, when ever the seller has the funds, I am not placing a time on this final refund, it can be paid whenever they can.

But once it's paid. Please mark this as resolved. I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING ELSE! PLEASE, PLEASE JUST MARK IT AS RESOLVED ONCE THIS IS PAID! Many thanks.
(Screened comment)
Jan. 25th, 2017 12:42 am (UTC)
We are going to screen these comments. The information relevant to the beware is in the body of the post and we'd like to reduce the possibility of members taking the issues of the beware off site. You can still see your comment when it has been screen. Please do not delete it.
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(no subject) - kitzwing - Jan. 25th, 2017 06:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kitzwing - Jan. 25th, 2017 06:08 am (UTC) - Expand
MOD COMMENT - kayla_la - Jan. 25th, 2017 06:39 am (UTC) - Expand
May. 22nd, 2017 09:42 am (UTC)
Just wondering if this Artist Beware still counts?
Merely asking because myself and the seller agreed to the remainder/ partial refund back in December.

Here: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/923663.html?thread=32728335#t32728335

Mostly wondering what's the point to this beware anymore when nothing being done? I don't mean this in a rush statement or to get it finally paid etc, I was asked months back by a couple admins to agree to an amount. I'll be completely honest, when myself and the seller first disputed things between us they had agreed to a partial refund to everything besides the 'rush order' and 'final postage'. As they were already given back.

See here: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/923663.html?thread=32629775#t32629775

I had forgotten to read there TOS, so again like I've been saying over and over in comments before this one, I technically can not claim on anything. Only thing I can is the first lot of postage, due to the fact in the end, nothing was ever sent to me. This is due to the result of everything that happened here, but fact is because it was not sent, I can ask for that first lot of postage I paid to be refunded, but again nothing else. I'm fine with that, what's bothering me is not having the agreed amount emailed to me, this way conforming for sure it's agreed on, and waiting 6 or so months for the refund.

The seller never replied to my agreed amount, merely stated later we had come to an agreement.
Here: https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/8043348/ This is not agreeing to me in person, they could have emailed me, but they didn't, agreeing to someone's suggestion, means you should agree to them in person/emails not over a journal.

Yes I have not given a date for it to be paid, but still it's been around 6 months from the agreed amount, but yet I still have not gotten the agreed amount, technically the amount I had given, not the amount they claimed they would add up for me, but in the end never did. I had to pick something as admins months back asked me too. So I decided the first lot of postage I paid, since it was not sent, would be the amount that would be owed, the remainder is $84.

Read Here: http://imgur.com/mbPWlDa

If we were to still go by the original agreed partial refund it be alot more that they truly owed me. Say I did go by the original amount - $600 or so, take 30% labor fee they mention = $420.

But I figured because there TOS at the time claim I get nothing, then so be it I have to go by that TOS, so it's why I picked just the first lot of postage, again because it was not sent. I figured make it easier on them they don't have to find as much, yet even doing that hasn't made any difference at all.

I figured I'm pretty sure they rather the $84 option over the $420 option. But I'm still waiting. Will I be waiting a year, 2 years, maybe 5 years, I see no point to this anymore. Can this not just be closed please? I rather this just be done with.

Many thanks.
May. 22nd, 2017 10:17 am (UTC)

Deleting posts is a permanent ban from the community. Do you consider this post resolved? If so we can change the tags for you.
(no subject) - kitzwing - May. 22nd, 2017 10:34 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - May. 22nd, 2017 10:37 am (UTC) - Expand
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