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Pony woes

I've watched the group from afar for a long time but I've luckily never had any reason to post! I'm not sure if this person is genuinely confused or if this was an attempt to get free art?



WHO: Ecanusiofiel (Deviantart)

WHERE: Deviantart.com (notes)

WHAT: Full body, flat-colour commission of their HRPG horse.

WHEN: -Commission request received on May 15th
-Response and quote sent May 21
-Sketch sent for approval and payment in full ($25 USD) requested May 22
-No response received, reminder note sent June 4th
-Received note that payment had been sent June 4th, and it all goes downhill from here...

PROOF: http://sta.sh/09mnqrhzn4a

EXPLAIN: I had opened some fully-body flat colour commissions and received a request to draw this user's HRPG horse on May 15th. I responded to the request on May 21 and gave a quote which they agreed to. I made-up a sketch and sent it the next day for approval and payment in full before proceeding to lines/colour.


This is where it started to go south. I waited for a few days and didn't hear from them but figured I'd wait a little longer. I sent a reminder on June 4th asking for approval and payment. They responded the same day and said that they forgot, which whatever it happens. I checked my Paypal later that day but saw no payment; but since Paypal can be a pain sometimes I decided to wait a couple of days and see if the money would appear. By June 10th I hadn't received anything and let them know that there may be an issue and that I could send an invoice instead if the money had not yet left their account. After four more days of silence I sent a notice that I would be terminating the agreement as I had not received payment or any communication.

They responded immediately by telling me that they thought the commission was already cancelled since I claimed that I hadn't received the money and they “simply shook” their “head and let it go”. I just don't even. Who does this? I thought I had been open and reachable the entire time and don't really understand what would cause someone to just shrug and walk away from $25 dollars sent to someone else for a service. Also incredibly not impressed of the accusation that I've stolen anything. Sort of fuming.

[Edit for clarity] Sorry, I forgot to say that after their last note they blocked me. The white note in the series is what I was going to say back but never got the chance.

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Comments

( 24 comments — Leave a comment )
celestinaketzia
Jun. 16th, 2016 09:49 pm (UTC)
What a strange scenario. Have they gotten back with you about this? I'd personally would have wanted to see the screenshot with the email address visible so you could verify whether it was yours or not. Plus being able to see the transaction number would help.
tricksparrow
Jun. 17th, 2016 01:47 am (UTC)
I just edited to clarify, they actually blocked me after their last note. Yeah, the way they cut the screenshot only makes me more suspicious. The name they have there is not even close to my actual name so I'm not sure what they're about.
jakkal
Jun. 16th, 2016 09:57 pm (UTC)
This person is very obviously lying to you. You don't send $25 and 'let it go'. It's most likely that they either changed their mind or didn't have the money to spend and didn't want to seem embarrassed. There's also the chance that they wanted the free sketch.

So I'd say the series of events is: They got the sketch and for whatever reason decided not to go through with it. Maybe they tried but didn't have the funds. Maybe they just didn't want to sound like they were taking the sketch and running. I don't know.

You remind them, they make excuses. They go so far as to say they sent it. They lied.

You remind them again, and they get all pissy with you. They claim they let it go after you said you didn't get the payment. (No one does this). It was probably at this point that they hoped you'd just go away.

You reply, and then they accuse you of stealing, probably just to get you off their back.

Regardless, this person is not worth doing business with. Might want to watch on their DA to see if they upload any commissions that are like that sketch.
Rhyn Ghye
Jun. 19th, 2016 01:05 am (UTC)
My exact thoughts, I'd be keeping a close eye on any and all of their accounts, they may trace the sketch and upload a finished piece or just the sketch itself.
timelapsedecay
Jun. 16th, 2016 10:10 pm (UTC)
My first instinct is that this is one of those kinds of psuedo-clients who order commissions from artists that don't do upfront payment and run off with whatever they're given when they get a sketch or WIP. Their later excuses really solidify this for me.
However this turns out, I definitely think you should consider charging upfront for everything, before any work is given to the client. Unfortunately, this kind of theft and deceit just happens sometimes, and more often than not, can be avoided with upfront payments. I personally completely stopped having this particular issue with "clients" when I switched to upfront payment about six years or so ago.
As for the claim they sent you the money, I'm inclined to think that's completely fabricated. It simply doesn't make any sense, and while they sent 25$ to *somebody*, it clearly isn't you. I think they are trying to convince you the money was sent to you, and hoping you are foolish enough to trust them and just continue on with their commission. The way they "just shook their head" about it is especially suspicious, if they really did send that money to you, I really, really doubt they would be so flippant about where it went.
Overall, something doesn't add up at all, and it's on their end of things. I wish you luck in dealing with this
mistresswolf
Jun. 17th, 2016 01:30 pm (UTC)
"psuedo-clients who order commissions from artists that don't do upfront payment and run off with whatever they're given when they get a sketch or WIP."

I've had those before. So now if someone wants to buy a YCH, they prepay. If they go for a regular commission, they pay once they approve one of the gesture sketches (a stick figure pretty much) I give them.
spartanwerewolf
Jun. 17th, 2016 03:25 am (UTC)
That's... bizarre. I amways contact the artist to say,"money sent!" and 99% of the time they reply with,"received, thanks!". If they don't, I double check.

I'm guessing they just didn't want to continue the commission but were too chicken to say so :/
talentedfool
Jun. 17th, 2016 07:17 am (UTC)
I personally doubt there was any kind of malicious scheming in their actions, and lean more towards them being genuinely confused. There's any number of reasons they may have decided that trying to get their lost money back wasn't worth it - social anxiety, a bad experience with an temperamental artist in the past, fear of confrontation, to think of a few. There are a lot of emotional and psychological burdens that can feel greated than financial loss. And mostly, they just seem genuinely kind of hurt and tired to me.

While their apparent disinterest in pursuing their lost commission is kind of sad, at the end of the day, they're the one losing out and have to live with that decision. Even in a situation where their assumption turned out to be the right one, they'd still be out $25 because they, for whatever reason, didn't attempt to contact the artist to settle the problem, or dispute it via PayPal. I think it's totally fair to feel annoyed in your position at the loss of time spent on working on their sketch and having accusations slung at you, but they're shooting themselves in the foot just as hard by their decision. It's sad, but that's the bed they made, that's the bed they're gonna lie in.
keaalu
Jun. 17th, 2016 02:01 pm (UTC)
"I personally doubt there was any kind of malicious scheming in their actions, and lean more towards them being genuinely confused."

- on the whole, I agree; it's just such an odd reaction to something that could probably have been solved quite easily? The artist states they didn't receive payment, but the buyer (apparently) doesn't go to PayPal to check if they accidentally sent the money to the wrong person - instead they assume the artist just doesn't want to do the commission any more, accuse them of lying about being paid / stealing their money, and... not really care about it?
talentedfool
Jun. 17th, 2016 03:55 pm (UTC)
Oh yeah, I absolutely agree with you there! It's a very head scratching situation and I don't... really understand why they decided to shrug and give up either? I very much think the customer's behaviour is still wrong, it's just wrong in a more innocently bumbling way imo.

If anything it's more frustrating to me to think things turned so sour over such a simply resolved error. It's a very sad and buggery situation, and if the customer really did send money to the wrong person by mistake, they lose out over this mix up too! :/ But if they're okay being out $25 because they'd rather block someone than communicate to try to clear up the situation, that's uh, up to them I guess.
mpd_84
Jun. 17th, 2016 04:22 pm (UTC)
That could just be a friend of theirs or a second account they made just to take that screencap.
jebboy
Jun. 17th, 2016 05:11 pm (UTC)
I am very confused what you're trying to say here.
Are you trying to say the OP made a second account just to try and make the commissioner look bad? The commissioner did something with screenshots?
mpd_84
Jun. 17th, 2016 06:54 pm (UTC)
The commissioner could have made a second paypal account to send the money to, thus not really losing anything, IF they're actually a scammer.
jebboy
Jun. 18th, 2016 10:11 pm (UTC)
Ah. I see. I've never heard of that before.
talentedfool
Jun. 17th, 2016 11:37 pm (UTC)
There's a lot of "what ifs" and "could bes" that could be proposed but I personally find it easier to just take things at face value, given no other evidence. It seems easier to believe someone just didn't have it in them to confront the artist over the believed loss of money rather than going through all the trouble of setting up a secondary paypal account for a fake screenshot that is going to include the most obviously wrong name.

The sticking point for me is the name, because whether it's a fake account or a friend, the name is going to be wrong, and what's the point in going through all the effort of cooking evidence that's going to be immediately seen through? If the point of the screenshot (and the alleged jury of people who saw them send it via streaming) is to prove the customer is innocent and really sent the money and OP is lying about not receiving it, sending a screenshot and with the wrong name entirely just proves the OP right, not the customer - that the money wasn't sent to them.
tricksparrow
Jun. 18th, 2016 02:38 am (UTC)
I could totally get behind that explanation if their answer had been less flippant? The tone of their brush-off just doesn't seem like someone who is nervous? (Of course everyone is different, it just seems this way to me, personally)

talentedfool
Jun. 18th, 2016 07:13 am (UTC)
I don't think she was nervous to confront you, per se, just tired? And tone conveys so poorly through text very often though, and I personally didn't read any flippancy in at least her initial response to you after the formal cancellation of the commission. It wasn't until things started getting a confrontational tone that her response became snappish. But it's speculation either way, and the way you read things is just as fair and valid as the way I read things.

My interpretation of the exchange, as a complete outsider with no emotional investment in the situation, (if it's of any value to you) is pretty much this: she said "it's not the first time that [she's] paid for a commission and never got it", so probably she jumped to a hasty conclusion (her bad), probably went "I don't want to go on this rodeo ride again" and decided the money wasn't worth the hassle of a fight she perceived as being inevitable, possibly due to her own bad past experiences, and immediately just assumed worst case scenario and gave up. Her language of "I'm sorry I had assumed it was canceled" and then "simply shook my head and left it be" feels very defeatist rather than accusing. You were understandably upset, it was your right, and you sent a much meatier response to her, and she became defensive, probably figured it was going to turn into a fight that she really didn't want to deal with, threw out her perceived proof and jury of witnesses as a kind of mic drop, and blocked you to maintain the last word and avoid further confrontation.

That's just my impression though, and again, nothing more than speculation. That's all I can really offer. What I have is no more valid than anyone else's speculation.

And on the subject of tone not conveying well through text, just in case - again, I stress I do think either way the customer handled things poorly. Making no attempt to figure out where her money went, and then blocking you instead of trying to resolve things, was such a strange and ridiculous way to handle the situation (or completely not handle the situation, to be more accurate). It's just easier for me to prescribe harmful ignorance than outright maliciousness to someone's actions if there's no proof either way, and that's mostly where I'm coming from. :P
zeonchar
Jun. 17th, 2016 09:26 pm (UTC)
Maybe in the future add a watermark to the sketch? Not enough to ruin a preview, but definitely to deter "stealing" of any future sketches.
tricksparrow
Jun. 18th, 2016 02:34 am (UTC)
I'm actually not bothered at all about the sketch. The weird handling and the accusations were what got my goat. If this person had never responded again I would have just moved on. My sketches don't usually take a long time as they are not overly detailed. They didn't pay for anything so I may just repurpose the sketch in the future, or something.
whoop_zi
Jun. 18th, 2016 07:04 am (UTC)
that is super weird. i feel like what may have happened is the commissioner typo'd your email address and the payment is showing up in their transaction history, but is unclaimed due to the typo, because i've done that before. you probably could have explained that to them too if they hadn't have blocked you so quickly? i feel like this could potentially be an honest mistake on their end, but the fact that they appear totally apathetic to getting their money back is pretty bizarre(especially if they think you have it?). they could have really easily worked this out if they made a mistake, but their avoidance and sudden change in tone kind of raises a red flag to me.

(also off-topic but that sketch is gorgeous, weh)
celestinaketzia
Jun. 18th, 2016 07:05 am (UTC)
When you typo an email address it won't have a name associated to it. Unless the typo just so happened to be an actual existing Paypal account. In which case it would have gone through fine.
tricksparrow
Jun. 18th, 2016 06:59 pm (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that they did just send it to the wrong person and I wish I could tell them that I am not P***** L***** or that at least that the person that got the money asks them why they sent it so they can get their $25 back. Even stranger is that they said that I must have given them the wrong email address but didn't try to varify it with me.

Other people have made good points about the person seeming apathetic and maybe people have actually stolen from them before, an I can totally see that. The only thing about that, that does bother me is that assuming they did make a mistake and really do think I stole from them, that they walk away with that idea and will tell other people. (I'm not really afraid of losing the business, I don't do a ton of commission, it's more the idea someone somewhere is calling me a thief)

(Oh, thanks so much! It's a shame because I really did like the commission)
lavabeast
Jun. 18th, 2016 07:09 pm (UTC)
This is super bizarre to me since...like, if you had stolen their money (which you clearly have not) there would be no confrontation needed? It's well within the paypal chargeback period so I am fully convinced this person is full of shit.

Not only that, but they are completely unwilling to double-check into their own paypal history to see to whom they sent money?

Also, they say payment is sent on June 4th, then show you a payment made on May 29th?

Edited at 2016-06-18 07:20 pm (UTC)
jessibean
Jun. 19th, 2016 12:13 am (UTC)
Oh, that's an interesting point that I didn't even realize. Kind of proves that the whole thing is BS. Likely not a typo so much as they just didn't feel like paying/didn't want the commission/had no money and thought they had a convenient excuse.
( 24 comments — Leave a comment )

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