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About Starfinder

I am making this post for a friend, who no longer has access to post to Livejournal. Any input or advice is more than welcomed by her. Thanks!
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"Much as I'm loathe to do this, I really have to make a post regarding Starfinder.

In September last year I purchased a print of "Heart of Glass" from Starfinder. It arrived within a month, but to my disappointment, it was of an extremely low quality - very off-colour and blotchy. Starfinder was very obliging about replacing the print and within 24 hours, she had sent me photos of the new print, which looked excellent. And so, the replacement was supposed to be mailed out.

I'm still waiting.

I'd been in touch many times to ask about where it is, and I've been told it hadn't been sent, it was packed up, her mother forgot to mail it, she had lost my address, and more recently (the past few months) I've had no response at all. In May, she apologized and said that she had also made a con badge which she had packed in with the print, but I've not had a response since then. I've tried email and LJ comments to no avail. In the past, I contacted her via AIM but I really don't want to have to go on to complain at her again and get fobbed off again.

I really just want to receive the print, but I'm tired being ignored, and this seems like the only way to go. Sorry, Starfinder, but I stuck up for you over your past problems and this is not a good way to treat your customers at all.

- Korrok"
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

darkwolven
Aug. 9th, 2006 04:17 am (UTC)
I ordered a print from a very prominent artist 2 years ago whom I will not name. I finally got it 3 months ago. I corresponded with him patiently. When he was off the radar, I waited. I searched for new contact info. I didn't go to the nearest drama hive and post anything. I kept it ALL in email. I granted him the possibility of life issues. I didn't blame him for being human. I didn't assume he did it deliberately. I didn't begrudge him the desire to make money either despite his faults, and I eventually got what I ordered even though I was prepared to write it off. If artists need to be so professional as what ideal is apparently held up here, then consumers should be prepared to be so also.

This place does not achieve it's objective. In this particular case, one or two early posts end up being of informational value and the rest unravels into unfocused name bashing. You know this is true. Somewhere else in this thread somebody posted a link to the furry wiki. As of so far, this is the only even handed thing I have seen posted here regarding Starfinder as it reports the allegations, doesn't claim them as truth and provides information on what to do. How hard is that? No. THIS place is what is called a gossip mill.
ravellwolf
Aug. 9th, 2006 09:15 am (UTC)
It's Korrok here, replying with my fiance's account (though I don't like to do this).

I would not mind if Star took this time because of personal issues and problems. If something bad had happened, I would stand back and wait - I've done it with other people. I'm not impatient. However this began to get to me because I had been promised it so many times during *good* parts of SF's life, and told repeatedly that it would be in the post the next day. There was no problem that was holding SF back. And now she's been doing a ton of sketch and icon commissions...why was my simple print still forgotten? Simply, just a lack of caring about an old issue and hoping it would go away.

I appreciate you're Star's friend, and I don't have anything against her myself. I think she's a decent person overall, but she just cannot act this way - to me, to other commissioners or buyers. When emails and comments are being ignored, I told SF that my only remaining option to bring this sharply to attention was this community. Which is not a drama community, it's a consumer community. And regardless of what degree of professionalism you're touting yourself as, as soon as you sell anything, you had a duty to uphold your end of the deal and uphold a good degree of customer service.

There is no excuse for what SF has done to people, it's that simple. You should not defend it blindly.

But when I approached her last night to explain my actions in making this post (which creates unwanted drama for me, not just Star), she assured me she'd send the print (along with a newly made conbadge). And when I receive that, I will be sure to make it just as clear on the community that she was willing and able to resolve the situation.

It's just sad that this is the last place to go where I could actually be heard and be able to get communication with her.
darkwolven
Aug. 10th, 2006 01:01 am (UTC)
Just FYI, I'm listed as a "friend" on her LJ list so that I can view her art because I like it very much. I have no personal correspondence with her at all. I just wanted to make that clear. I'm not trying to jump to her rescue here. Just point out the heavy-handedness that this group seems to have on her.

Regards
darkwolven
Feb. 21st, 2008 01:59 pm (UTC)
Hi,

I know this is a really old post, but I had to update. I have a commission that I ordered 8 years ago from a prominent fur artist which I won't name. He got buried under too many commissions and got overwhelmed and procrastinated. He admits that. The commission has been full tilt the last few weeks and is almost complete. It's been 8 years but my patience has been worth it because I think it may be the best commission I have ever gotten and believe me I can be picky. I'd like to say who it is because he is very talented, but I don't want anybody to look poorly on him. You'll just have to take my word on it. 8 years was so worth it. :)
xodiac
Aug. 9th, 2006 01:25 pm (UTC)
Just because you had the extraordinary patience to wait without complaint for two years for a print doesn't mean that others will, that others should, or that the artist who did it to you or them isn't doing you or they a disservice.

Two years is a long time to wait. Especially for a print. As someone said, there's very few viable excuses for that, and family problems is not among them. It doesn't take that much time, effort, or money to make a print (assuming there's none lying around in-stock), go to the PO, buy postage, and mail it to the correct address.

This thread isn't a personal attack, it's a comment and warning about her "business" practices. The wiki is meant to be evenhanded and skeptical of claims. It reports that such claims exist but does not assert their validity. Hell, it does the same for Sibe. This is not evenhanded, but by no means is it a personal attack.

Learn the difference.
darkwolven
Feb. 21st, 2008 02:01 pm (UTC)
Hi,

I know this is a really old post, but I had to update. I have a commission that I ordered 8 years ago from a prominent fur artist which I won't name. He got buried under too many commissions and got overwhelmed and procrastinated. He admits that. The commission has been full tilt the last few weeks and is almost complete. It's been 8 years but my patience has been worth it because I think it may be the best commission I have ever gotten and believe me I can be picky. I'd like to say who it is because he is very talented, but I don't want anybody to look poorly on him. You'll just have to take my word on it. 8 years was so worth it. :)

PS, I do know the difference. If you can't see drama happening right in front of you, there's not much I can say to that. :)
spiffystuff
Mar. 28th, 2008 02:09 am (UTC)
Whoa. I was bored and looking at this...
All I can say is, even if 8 years was OK for YOU, other people are under NO OBLIGATION to wait that long unless that was the timeframe originally stipulated.
So, unless this artist was Starfinder, there's really no point in telling people how you don't mind waiting X years.
darkwolven
Mar. 28th, 2008 10:55 am (UTC)
I said it wasn't Starfinder, but I WOULD wait 8 years for a piece of her work. I didn't SAY 8 years was fine, but it was fine for ME because I understand artists are people and they should be treated as such. They have personal issues in their lives like everybody else and if you hold out as long as you feel they have the INTENT is there to do right by the agreement, why NOT wait?

A lot of people rip on Star about stuff that happened FIVE+ years ago. AFAIK, most people who have contacted her as recently as last year have gotten their issues taken care of. Now put on top of that people who drudge up the past and even a few that HARASS her by calling her a "sand nigger lover" because she likes Persian men, well the people who do that are just trolls in the deepest sense. People should let go of grudges and as long as she does screw up again beyond what is excusable for a human being, she should be left alone. The problem is that she responds to these people and then you have troll feeding which invigorates the harassment even more. I feel bad for her in a human sense. I'm not excusing what she has done in the past however, but I am recognizing that she is trying much harder now and she is human.
spiffystuff
Mar. 28th, 2008 04:56 pm (UTC)
Quite simply, I feel actions count for as much as intent. Say someone leaves a glass in a place it could very easily be broken, they are told such, and yet they leave it there anyway. The glass predictably gets broken, but it was not their intent for it to break, perhaps you would not blame them, but I would.
I'm an artist and I would expect someone to be pissed at me if I badly broke their deadline and did not provide a refund. Hence, I wouldn't do such a thing.
As for stuff that happened five years ago, again, not exactly applicable to this particular post, and I have no idea what incident in particular you are referring to. Is it a commission? If it happened FIVE YEARS AGO and she DID NOT MAKE RIGHT BY IT, well, then Star had FIVE YEARS to make it right and did not.
Again, all I know is that there seem to still be people with outstanding commissions by her and she's taking on still more. That and some stupid "leaving the fandom forever" drama (only to immediately return). And that lots of her art is traced stolen photos even though she's a photographer and could take her own pics. That there's three strikes; why do you defend her?
Frankly, I don't see why anyone wants to asspat someone for trying not to be a fuckup, instead of, you know, actually being an original, reliable, non-drama person.
darkwolven
Mar. 28th, 2008 06:19 pm (UTC)
Well, why I defend her is exactly what you just did. You made multiple statements with no basis of proof, only hearsay. I watch her LJ because I enjoy her art. As of lately, the majority of commissioned work she has done has been con badges and icons with an occasional once in a blue moon RARE commission picture and she visibly notates each commission on her LJ for anybody to see when completed. If she's not getting stuff completed, then it is completely under the radar which would be weird because she usually has been up front with her LJ readers about her past mistakes and she posts everything about her art. If this is true, then support your statement by pointing out these outstanding commissions. If it's true, I want to know the story.

Yes, I agree that she has plenty of drama and I even get tired of it occasionally and she has made plenty of postings about leaving. You know what? I commended her for that decision each and every time she made it. You know why? Because there will always be a small group of Starfinder haters in the fandom holding onto grudges decades past no MATTER what she does to make amends. She never did leave BTW (hence the comment about coming back is inaccurate), because the cons are about her only means of making money right now. I've tried suggesting she should start a legit business and start doing nature and fantasy art for sale or art photography because she would be awesome at it. Right now she is looking into college which is commendable considering she didn't graduate from high school. I believe she only took the equivalence exam.

Some furries are exceptionally good at making sport out of somebody who is an easy target like her. Again, this is evident troll behavior. That's what I find truly repugnant about those people that continue to bash her over and over. What I see in this group is a small handful of honest gripers that actually had legitimate complaints against her when she was about 14 or 15 and a bunch of jealous assholes making sport of her because they look for anything to latch on to for sport bashing. She's about 19 now! I have yet to hear of any incidences that occurred in the last 18 months. Well over a year ago she posted an open invitation for anybody with legitimate complaints about incomplete commissions or other issues to contact her and she took care of them. TMK, there isn't anything outstanding that is public knowledge.

RE: what I mean about 5 years ago, in the past when I have challenged Starfinder bashers to elaborate WHY they were bashing her, almost every time it had to do with a handful of incidences that happened in 2002-2003! It's just stupid and juvenile to hold onto a grudge that long. Still being upset over something is understandable, but I've read some really nasty rhetoric regarding Starfinder which sounds much harsher than mild lingering ill feelings. That's why I believe it's much more than that because some of it has been downright vicious.

Tracing? You know I have heard that accusation several times, but I have YET see anybody provide proof. Even if she was tracing body forms, so what? It would be different if she were taking a completed piece by somebody else and photoshopping different heads on or some stupidness, but her technique is far more complicated than that. Her paintings? OMG, the detail. Why would she even NEED to steal somebody else's stuff? Frankly I think she far exceeds probably 95% of the fandom artists out there in skill. As far as I am concerned, it's jealousy. I've been around since 1998 and I have seen a LOT of artists in this fandom, and there are plenty of good ones, but Star is -great-. She's the real deal and I expect to see art by her for sale from groups like Leanin' Tree and other nature/animal/fantasy art distributors.
spiffystuff
Mar. 28th, 2008 07:00 pm (UTC)
Honestly it's not worth it to me to continue this much longer, so I'll just reply to your first sentence
"You made multiple statements with no basis of proof, only hearsay."
The outstanding commissions are right here, in the artists beware community. And/or outstanding print orders, which amounts to the same thing.
The evidence for her taking photos for direct photomanipulation is also in artist beware, but if you want a direct link check out the ED article where it says "tracefinder"
Yeah not the most savory source but I saw those examples initially posted in better places, I just don't feel like chasing them down right now.
darkwolven
Mar. 28th, 2008 10:16 pm (UTC)
You referenced ED which has this to say about SIBE of all people:
"He is a good man for pissing off the entire furry fandom."

I've seen their accusation of tracing, but if you really look closely, you can see differences, so either she really sucks at tracing or she is so good with detail that she can approximate so closely that it looks almost 1 to 1 and I HAVE seen some of her paintings which were phenomenal. I suppose you -could- find a way to trace a form for painting, but you'd really be reaching then. I just recently viewed http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1137611/ which is freely admitted to be referenced and my initial response was "photo trace" but when I looked closer some things didn't make sense. There is some apparent "noise" but when you look closer you can see it's everywhere like she added a photofilter for the effect. The photo certainly didn't come out that way. Everything has been redrawn. You could claim "trace" but Photoshop doesn't have onionskinning built in native, so it would be pretty difficult to trace a digital photo. I've seen plenty of her stuff this quality or much higher straight from hand.

As for the commissions, I don't know. TMK, she's up to date and I haven't seen any recent claims.
darkwolven
Mar. 28th, 2008 10:57 am (UTC)
"as long as she does screw up again"

was supposed to be -doesn't- screw up again.
mythos_amante
Aug. 10th, 2006 07:14 pm (UTC)
If you get no use out of this community, the you get no use out of this community. But just because you permitted the artist you commissioned to breach your agreement does not make that the right thing to do for the rest of us. There is no nobility in silence when you have been taken advantage of.

I agree that people can get tetchy and can go off on, "And then she/they/he did that! They hit me first!" sorts of things, but that's limited to individuals...not the community at large. I see a lot of people coming here who are cautious and feel ashamed about bringing up bad commissioners and commissionees, because, like you, they were probably taught that "saying anything=tattling=shame." But that was a manipulative mindset rubbed into us with hurtfulness by our peers and elders. Blurting out harmful things without thought or back-stabbing, either for the point of approval or to cause someone pain *IS* morally wrong, in my opinion. But letting people know that they should be aware of peoples' actual past actions specifically so they don't get screwed themselves? That's not "tattling." That's being a compassionate human being.

As an artist, I am glad to know about artists and commissioners I should be wary of having dealings with, and I get a sizeable portion of that knowledge from reading both the lines and between the lines on this community. If you WERE to post an, "I commissioned so-and-so-made-up-artist and they suck!" post, just to prove that your view of the community is the only correct one, and what would that accomplish? Most of the people here will SAY when a poster's topic seems to conflict with their experience. That's good. Conflict can be good. And the mods generally make sure that erroneous or harmful information is corrected. You'd really only prove that you get out of a situation what you put in to it.

And if you want things to be better, you make them better, or suggest ways for them to BE better. Sitting there and saying, "It sucks!" is really more about you and your worldview than it is about anything outside of you.
mythos_amante
Aug. 10th, 2006 07:24 pm (UTC)
THAT being said, I hope your move goes well!

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