?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Artist Beware: Nayel-ie [RESOLVED]

Update 11/4/16
Nayel-ie has contacted me regarding this commission/AB she has offered an apology and to "right her wrongs" she has gained alot of respect from me because of this. as such i can happily now list this as resolved :)

This post does contain NSFW Images and have been marked appropriately at the very bottom of this post. All links in the body are SFW as they are merely screencaps of conversation.


WHO: Nayel-ie

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/nayel-ie

WHAT: 40% Off digital "Full Shaded Bust"

WHEN: Agreement & Trouble: November 13 2014

PROOF:
First contact notes on FA: http://i.imgur.com/gwrNFn0.png
Proof of payment: http://i.imgur.com/wdRBA0L.png
other email screencaps in the body (the time differences between the emails and first contact times was we first communicated through notes on FA until she was done, she then ignored the next 2 i sent, i waited a few days and sent the emails)


EXPLAIN: I Wish i knew about this site prior to commissioning her.

I got a 40% discounted commission from Nayel-ie for a "full shaded Bust" normally $100 through a journal she had posted on FA, she got it done within the same day of agreement and receiving payment, but that's not what I'm disputing. The finished piece was no where near the quality of her other artwork nor did it look anything like my character, so i sent her an email about it. The response i got was that the references made her "look like that", she tried a different shading style (which i never approved or was even told about) and that the examples i linked back to her (i linked some of her art from her gallery, expecting i was meant to get something of that quality) i was told they were a "higher tier" commission, which is a blatant lie, there is no tier above what i paid for. At the bottom of this post i have linked the final product i received, the references i gave her and the ones from her gallery i used when I questioned the quality along with a current copy of her commission prices. She has also deleted the original journal in regards to the commission sale and never used any references to show what the quality was to be like so i believed the examples i pulled from her gallery were her "highest tier"

http://i.imgur.com/LyaXqT9.png (Email for above paragraph)

So of course not being happy with the answer, which to me it sounds like she's just trying to fob me off without even caring, which according to her TOS I'm very much thinking this is how she runs her "business" which by the way have to be the worst thing ever. I must mention i DID read her TOS but i didn't think it would be a problem because the art in her gallery showcases a standard well above what she i received.
Her TOS: http://nayelie.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/terms-of-agreement-2013/

I send her another email and the response is below it
http://i.imgur.com/HUcYXNe.png
(i have not sent anything after this email)

So once again, a short answer and not really helping, so at this point I'm most likely just going to give up and say i learned my lesson, regardless of how good someone portray's their art, never commission anyone with such terrible TOS that basically screws you over completely at every turn.


The Images

The Final piece: (SFW)
http://i.imgur.com/hRNyniI.png

The references of my character: (NSFW)
http://i.imgur.com/bIq2hIG.png
http://i.imgur.com/Tz7Ii0H.png
http://i.imgur.com/n8yypFY.png
(SFW)
http://i.imgur.com/d96bddn.png
(Some how these pictures make her look like a Cat x rabbit or some kind of Fennec?)

the Examples i used from her gallery (SFW)
http://i.imgur.com/Bz5QHYL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/587qtYf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0aDmWEV.jpg
(this is why i questioned the quality)

Her current Commission pricing sheet (Which is 30% off, but it's the black numbers that are the base prices i refer to)
http://i.imgur.com/YF3a0rw.png
(Again i paid for a "full shade bust" there is no "full detail" anywhere on that pricing sheet or hints at any thing more)


So as i said, not much i can do about it since she has essentially given her self the right to say "stuff you" to her customers through her ToS and rush out art. Was i within my rights to say what i did?


Kindest Regards.
~Sierra

Community Tags:

Before commenting, please read our Community Rules.
Do not go after persons posted about here, by leaving comments on their art pages.
If you have been posted about, please read I've Been Posted on Artists_Beware, Now What?

Comments

( 22 comments — Leave a comment )
zackfig
Nov. 28th, 2014 03:49 pm (UTC)
The quality doesn't compare at all with the examples for that price range! Ergh! >=(
ramthedragon
Nov. 28th, 2014 04:37 pm (UTC)
That ToS Is a huge red flag:
-No refunds
-Art can be pushed back and delayed with no actual ETA
-"I try to do an old commission for every new commission I take"
-No fixing mistakes

And the quality is terrible, absolutely no comparaison. About the references it's a little bit trickier, there is no front face shot in any of those. But still it could have been followed more closely.

Sadly there is nothing you can do since you DID agree with the ToS, but in the future consider that any ToS with no refunds or ETAs is probably something to be wary of.
kattotang
Nov. 30th, 2014 03:42 am (UTC)
A "no refunds" clause in a ToS is not enforceable, as it has no legal ground to stand on. So OP could still request a refund, and if need be, file a Paypal chargeback.
wuvvumsoc
Nov. 28th, 2014 05:49 pm (UTC)
It feels like she took a lot of "deviantart" shortcuts by the way, like one eye is closed so she doesn't have to do symmetry, hands behind back, body and face straight forward so she doesn't have to attempt perspective or gesture. Ugh.
ramthedragon
Nov. 28th, 2014 06:11 pm (UTC)
The perspective is horrendous, with the tails very out of shot, looks super rushed. The shading is nothing like their other works either.
wuvvumsoc
Nov. 28th, 2014 07:11 pm (UTC)
Yeah, to me it feels like an entirely different artist drew it.
ljmydayaway
Nov. 28th, 2014 07:25 pm (UTC)
Same here. Usually when these types of complaints pop up I try to defend the artist (my pet peeve is when people claim an artist "rushed" the piece because they were pressuring them, and then they say the art isn't up to quality of the rest of their work = 3=), but this is nothing at all like the other pieces.
Mazzy Techna
Nov. 28th, 2014 06:10 pm (UTC)
yeh , that is nothing like any of her other things , shame that her tos does screw everyone who commissions her , thanks for the beware I will be avaoiding her
latiro
Nov. 28th, 2014 06:29 pm (UTC)
After reading the previous beware post about Nayel-ie, I'm not surprised by this at all.

I'm sorry you had to go through this, OP.
thejackaolf
Nov. 28th, 2014 06:30 pm (UTC)
Have to agree with anyone else whats posted in there gallery and what you got are two totally different things, yours is clearly rushed with several corners cut, the colors are rushed, the lines are rushed, the arms look like they've been loped off the face is flat as a board,and the lower body is just wonky, I cant say much effort was put in this looking at her other work.

as for your characters appearance the ears -are- a tiny bit longer then I would do for a fox but that's clearly just the style of how shes drawn, otherwise no she does not look like a cabbit or Fennec and she clearly has a longer muzzle then a cat or rabbit, (which is what I assume they mean by nose)
whoop_zi
Nov. 28th, 2014 09:57 pm (UTC)
wow, that doesn't look anything like the rest of her work. :/ it really irks me how apathetic she is about your dissatisfaction. beware well warranted.
sableantelope
Nov. 28th, 2014 11:04 pm (UTC)

I feel bad when people assume TOS are absolutely enforceable and don't know that they have certain rights as a consumer you can't just TOS away.
Honestly, if an artist tries TOS is not ironclad, and doesn't replace a contract.
Also just because something is in a TOS doesn't mean it's enforceable: for example "no refunds" is NOT enforceable. You can always request a refund.
Honestly I think FA should have a rule against artists trying to include that in TOS's. It's never enforceable and it intimidates people who are unaware that TOS =/= contract.
(artists: your terms should be included along with the purchase agreement to make up a complete contract, also it's good to check whether your terms are considered legally reasonable or not)

I'd also argue that 'no fixing mistakes' would also not be considered legally reasonable on a custom work contract. However that shouldn't open an artist up to infinite free revisions either. This is something that REALLY NEEDS to be defined in detail by the contract. Like at what stage revisions are agreed to end(most people would put this in the sketch stage UNLESS the artist makes a major colour mistake- like a marking is green instead of red or something), and clarifying an artist mistake verses a revision.

Okay just a simple example- this could probably be a set up as a schedule(makes sure and include "Schedule A constitutes a part of this agreement".
in the main body if you do), or as a term in the body:


In this agreement "artist" refers to (your name), "customer" refers to (customer name). The "piece" is the custom artwork created to specifications detailed this agreement.
Customer must provide clear reference materials of the character(s) to be depicted. If visual references are provided they will be assumed by the artist to be correct- unless specific points of deviation are raised by the customer and agreed to by the artist. If written description is provided it must be agreed to by the artist to be satisfactory, and any clarifications of character details agreed upon by artist and customer. The artist reserves the right to refuse a commission if the character references, written or visual, are not satisfactory; or if reference specifications cannot be agreed upon between artist and customer.
Revisions will not be made past the sketch stage. The sketch stage is the uncoloured, unrefined line art version of the custom piece. Two revisions, with the sketch stage piece shown to the customer after completion of each for approval, will be made in the sketch stage. No revisions past the sketch stage will be completed.
Mistakes, serious diversions or omissions from the agreed-upon character reference occurring by the fault of the artist, will be corrected by the artist at both sketch and flat colour stage.


Okay that is just a quick example of the kind of way to handle revision in your terms.

The first line goes in 'definitions' if you are doing a definitions section, if not include it in the terms.
Your buyer's agreement will explain the specifications of the piece. For example:
'one digital image, of at least 2000 by 2000 pixels in dimension done in a cell shaded style provided in .png format to (customer name) depicting their character (character name) eating noodles while dressed in a tuxedo'


(and NLA disclaimer ;))

(and HTML fix edit, crap. I wish LJ had a comment preview. Bleh, too much cold medicine for me)

Edited at 2014-11-28 11:05 pm (UTC)
bbxr
Nov. 28th, 2014 11:27 pm (UTC)
I always felt like she's constantly referencing from Falvie. The difference between what you got and her examples really surprised me.. it's like two different artists with different skill levels.
skulldog
Nov. 29th, 2014 12:54 am (UTC)
You are absolutely on target in saying what you saw and what you got were not in the same play field. Your final looks like a rough sketch compared to the more cleaned up look of the rest of her gallery. I'm on the fence about how similar the character looks, I feel that might be more a case of how the artists just draws all characters and less her ignoring the reference.

Did she even post this commission to her gallery at all? Says a lot when you feel it was rushed/lacking, and the artist doesn't even post the art as well.

As an artist, I think it's pretty inconsiderate to 'try something new' without asking a buyer first, not assume since someone paid a discount, they'll be okay with being a surprise guinea pig..

I wish I has some advice on getting things fixed, or some sort of refund, but alas..thank you for warning us.




duster
Nov. 29th, 2014 06:29 am (UTC)
As an artist, I think it's pretty inconsiderate to 'try something new' without asking a buyer first, not assume since someone paid a discount, they'll be okay with being a surprise guinea pig..
If I want to experiment, I slash the price AND disclose that the piece is experimental and results may vary. Or just ask a friend to offer up a character as an artistic sacrificial lamb.

It's not cool to just go Frankenstein on a commissioned piece where the commissioner usually has something in mind already.
skulldog
Nov. 29th, 2014 07:03 am (UTC)
Same! If I want to try something different I offer a one or two slot discount commission that I SAY upfront will be done with a new style, I try to give a solid 'similar to' sample I link and stick to that! I don't sell discounted 'full digital commissions', link past works, then DO MY OWN THING. That's just not cool.

At a restaurant as a non art example: They can't use a photo of a past shrimp meal, charge the cost of that past meal, then decide they want to do a 'special' and hand you something with beef when the photo you picked from was shrimp. If you can replace meal items for commission types, what shouldn't pass for a restaurant, shouldn't pass for an artist either...
adzuki
Nov. 29th, 2014 05:59 am (UTC)
Their fluctuating art style (Looks like they like Falvie and Etuix to me) is really bothersome. The artist's work for this commission is definitely not the same as their samples.

A ToS can't say no refunds. If you aren't satisfied they should work to fix it.

Also no WIP is a bit bad for someone charging on her level. Not saying she is charging too much, artist's deserve fair compensation and what not, but clients deserve to see their stuff being worked on.
duster
Nov. 29th, 2014 06:27 am (UTC)
Her ToS is a bucket of red flag by itself. Yeesh.
nedrae
Dec. 1st, 2014 03:57 am (UTC)
Her ToS are an unenforceable mess alright, but also note how she expects you to pay for any PayPal fees that might show up.

Now _that_ is actually against PayPal's ToS. You can't have your buyer pay for any fees incurred from your use of the service.
galaxy_deer
Dec. 1st, 2014 05:59 am (UTC)
Yup! I stress on telling my commissioners to do not send it as a gift. I'm more than okay with paying the PP fees because I'm using their services. :/

But yeah I totally agree with her TOS, it's awful and I'm really baffled on why people are still commissioning her. She does have nice art, and I'm 99.9% sure she can be successful if she didn't try pulling short cuts and re-do her TOS completely.
starinthegutter
Dec. 2nd, 2014 08:25 pm (UTC)
Wow.

Either the quality of her work is diminishing or Falvie told her to stop referencing her work. >_>

Either way, that's ridiculous, and I'm sorry that happened to you. It seems that the more popular an artist is, the more they think they have an excuse to be a jerk cause they probably figure "hey, what's one less customer"? Stupid way to think- they never know who they're screwing over. "The shoes you step on today may be the ones you're kissing tomorrow" or however the idiom goes. I looked at her gallery, and I can see a quality shift with some of her more recent work. I guess she thought cause she was offering a discount she could just half-ass it.
rainmustang
Feb. 8th, 2015 02:05 pm (UTC)
I think it is funny a month after I reported Nay here, someone else did. You didn't wait as long but I know she has people waiting from 2013 still in her que. More people need to speak up here about her.
( 22 comments — Leave a comment )

Profile

A_B icon
artists_beware
Commissioner & Artist, Warning & Kudos Community

Community Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com