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"I don't wanna pay for it anymore!"

Okay, I wanna keep this short 'cause I'm kind've irritated, but I thought it'd only be fair to warn other artists of a commissioner I just had to deal with.

Now, I'll give a rundown of what happened first, and then show some emails and such.

Basically, kitsuneaura@yahoo.com (I dunno if they have a DA account or anything) posted on the Furc forums that they're looking for portrait artists (I can't link to the darn post 'cause the forums are down). Now, I hate doing portraits, but I had just opened commissions and I could have used the money, and I knew HOW to do them, so I emailed them asking about it and they jumped right in telling me what she'd like and all that.

They're very vague about things, and while they provide references for outfits, the only info I'm given to go by for the actual character is "Kitsune with nine tails, cascading hair, and fox-like markings. Make her sexy!". I work with it anyway, and provide them with a normal size sketch that I'll crop and shrink into a portrait if they like it. They say they do, more or less. Because of the nature of the sketch I suggest maybe putting her in a bikini and making it out to be a "beach scene". They agree to this, but say something odd that I don't understand in their email, so I reply asking for clarification.

RAWR! They snap at me to answer a question that they both hadn't actually asked, AND that they had the answer to already. I told them how much I charge for a portrait from the very beginning, like, the second or first email I sent, but they yelled at me to tell them and exaggerate by going, "Now for the 17th time, tell me how much I'm paying!", and threaten to drop the commission if I don't tell them right away, even though I told them before and they never actually asked that question anyway. They excuse all this in the beginning by saying they're "having a bad day". Suddenly that's my fault? Freaky. They never clarified what I'd asked them to, either.

I return the email apologizing (even though I didn't do anything) and saying I must have misunderstood something somewhere. To their credit, they email me back and apologize saying they had been upset because their mom had closed their checking account and canceled their Paypal. Well, whatever, they apologized, so.. They insist that they at least see the lineart of the portrait before they pay. That's fine, that's how I would've done it anyway.

So I work on the port for a while, outlining it slowly in that pixelly only black way ports have to be done in, and then I send the completed lineart to them along with the flat remappable colours as a way of being nice (it's a bit harder to see what's what when it's just the black and white lineart). To my surprise, they send back an email saying it looks "odd" now that it has colour on it (but the lineart is apparently okay, along with everything else? I didn't get it either), and that they "think" they don't want to pay 15$ for it anymore.

To be honest, at this point I'm tired of them. They were difficult to work with from the start, snapped at me for no good reason, and then suddenly tell me it looks odd and that they don't want it. I reply telling them as nicely as possible that it looks fine to me and everyone else that's seen it, but that I'll probably just sell the port at an auction or give it away or something, and that I'm sorry that I can't give them what they want. I didn't even consider until someone pointed it out to me that they may suddenly "not want it" because I made the mistake of sending them the flat remappable colours, and that they could just snatch it and shade it themselves and not bother paying for it. I dunno if that's the case, mind you, but it made me feel stupid.



Italicized emails are mine, and anything in bold are thoughts I've added about the email.

Daniella Allen
to KitsuneAura
More options May 3
Hello. I'm an artist and I'm curious to what kind of Furc portraits you want done. I want to ask beforehand so I won't waste your time if I don't think I can do it. Do you have any reference pictures of the character you want drawn, and things like that? What did you have in mind? :)


Kitsune Martin
to me
More options May 3
Hey! I'd absolutely love a port done, but, unfortunatly... I noticed some people have no freaking clue what they want as of yesterday. Some seven-year-old girl wanted me to pay for a sponsorship for her for drawings that looked like my dog did. I'm not being rude or sarcastic either. They weren;t even ports, just drawings. She told me to minimize them to fit the port 90x90 and I'd have a port. o.o Some people need help, lol.
My kitsune girl wears a few different outfits and I am paying for them individually. She only wears the outfits in the pictures I will attach though. I have a few of her second outfit, just read the file's name. She has nine tails (which dont have to be included because they are hard to make decent and don't really come near her face and upper body, some people just do full ports) black ears, maw, the whole furry bit. Her ears are just bigger, like a normal foxes. You can have fun with the pose if you want, as long as you keep in mind kitsune's are foxes, vixens, and my Escalina tends to try and look seductive. ^^ Make it sexy? I don't care what experience you have, as long as it isn't really bad and you know what you are doing. Got any samples? I was brief on Escalina herself, maybe I'll tell you more if you're interested. Oh, and besides the three outfits, I don't mind a nude port, I enjoy those mature things because she IS furre and not some 'Lookie my boobies! Weeee!' kinda girl, lol. That and she has a feral form. I'm buying ports for them all. But agian, got any samples?

Daniella Allen
to Kitsune
More options May 3
Whew, I was worried for a minute there. I thought you were gonna demand samples before giving me any info at all. :P I hate it when that happens.

Also, Escalina's a true anthro, right? Not a human with some ears attached like in all these pictures? I don't tend to like drawing humans, and I'm really picky about what ports I'll make 'cause they're a pain in the butt.

Anyway, yeah, I have samples. This sounds like something I should be able to take on. I don't have any good recent port samples, but I've done them and know how to do them, and there are a few older ports in my gallery. http://kayla-la.deviantart.com

I also have commission info on there. I just charge 15 dollars for a port, I don't need anything fancy.

Tell me what you think and if you're interested in a port from me. :)

And here's where I tell them I charge 15$ per port.

Kitsune Martin
to me
More options May 3
Yes, Escalina is a true anthro. She is a kitsune. ^^ And do I get to see this, like even if you color it and put sample ro whatever on it, before I buy it as a final outcome? I just wanna see how you do first. She only wears the OUTFITS in those pictures. She also has a feral form, a little fox, and stuff like that. I really need a fera form port.. Someone is doing 3 ports for me as of this morning for 5 bucks each. : / One of your's is as much. if it is good, I will gladly pay for it. Mind showing me like, maybe a sketch beofre you start so I can tell you if it looks funny and then you can color it?

Daniella Allen
to Kitsune
More options May 3
Well, I can't sketch anything until I have a bit more info. Like, what outfit do you want me to try drawing? I'm not so good with ferals, though, so it'd have to be an anthro version.

I also need info more on what she looks like. Hair style, length, eye styles, any markings, jewelry, etc. :) After you give me that, I'll try sketching a few things for you.


Kitsune Martin
to me
More options May 4
o.O; That's the exact same info I just gave someone else and she made a perfect port. o.o Just pick an outfit. I need the third one and I think I have someone doing outfit one and two. She's a fox, so she's got that whole sexy look to her face, have fun with the eyes. If you tilt your head to the side (and have long hair) on some people it just kinda cascades. It's kinda wavy, but not uber-curly. That's her's. No markings really, and the only jewelry she has is a black collar with tags.

Daniella Allen
to Kitsune
More options May 4
Alright, I'll sketch a few things tonight.

I'm curious though, can you show me a screenshot or something of this perfect port? It'd be good as a reference, for one, and two I'm curious to the quality and just curious altogether. :)

They never did show me a screenshot of this "perfect port".

Daniella Allen
to Kitsune
More options May 5
Okay, I just sketched something that I myself rather liked. I'm going to give you the original sized version and what it might look like squeezed into a port, though I could tweak what's showing in the port and all that if you wanted it different.

Also, I left it naked and sketchy because I wasn't sure what you wanted me to do with her. I could draw that third outfit on her, or I could put her in something like a bikini and give it a beach background, etc, as I remember you seemed really open about what you wanted. I like the bikini and beach idea myself, but you'll be paying for it in the end, so I figured I'd leave it up to you.

Tell me what you think! I can try sketching other things, too, if you have better ideas.

Gonna link to the picture here so you guys can see. Not exactly porn but not quite worksafe, either. http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2982/nekkidescalina7jb.jpg

Kitsune Martin
to me
More options May 6 (7 days ago)
Of a perfect port? I saw one last night I'd die for! ^^ The character's name was Shannon.. She isn't on untill tonight..

Kitsune Martin
to me
More options May 6 (6 days ago)
Wow, I must admit, nice. I never thought I'd find someone who could sketch something so open. xD Go ahead and put a bikini on her if you want.. I'd like to see what it'd look like.. Too bad I wouldn't be able to have it changed. x_x;
Wouldn't be able to have it changed? Huh? I never did find out what they meant by that, maybe one of you guys know?

Daniella Allen
to Kitsune
More options May 6 (7 days ago)
The kicker is I won't draw actual porn. This is as far as I go! I really toed the line with this one.

But I'm not sure what you mean. "Wouldn't be able to have it changed", what do you mean by that?

Also, I wanna clarify what you want. Do you want me to make this into a portrait? The original sketch is normal sized, if you have enough portraits, you could always just commission me to finish it as a normal art piece with CG colouring and all, but that'd cost a bit more. I just need to know what you want. :)

I didn't realize until later that it might sound like I'm trying to upsell, here. :( But to me, it was more like, "They already have so much of product a, maybe they'd rather have some of product b?". Oh well.

Kitsune Martin
to me
More options May 6 (7 days ago)
I comissioned you to draw a port. I have since the beginning. I dont mean to get rude but Im having a bad day. Now, for the 17th time, tell me what I am paying or I'm dropping it now. This is getting irritating and I was trying to be patient.
Self-explanatory. Anyone can look back the last few emails and see that no, they didn't ask what the port was going to cost. Not that I hadn't told them beforehand.

Daniella Allen
to Kitsune
More options May 6 (7 days ago)
*blinks* I'm sorry you're having a bad day. I did say towards the beginning however that I charge 15 dollars for a port, plus looking at the last e-mail I don't see anywhere where you asked for the price...

I'm sorry if I'm annoying, I just misunderstood something somewhere, it seems...

It'll take me a few days to colour this, but since you know what it'll basically look like, do you want to go ahead and pay now or wait for me to finish the outlining of the port? Do you happen to use Paypal? :)


Kitsune Martin
to me
More options May 9 (4 days ago)
I'm sorry, I need to apologize. I have a million people doing me ports and my mother just closed her checking account and cancelled my Paypal so I am very frustrated. Thank goodness I have a job interview today. But till then, I don't have a way to pay you unless you mind letting me send you the money and waiting for it. I would understand giving you the money first, it's alright. I can wait a few days for you to get it for me to get the port. But, do you mind showing me what you get just before you color it? The solid lines?
Fair enough, right?

Daniella Allen
to Kitsune
More options May 12 (20 hours ago)
No, I don't mind. And it's alright, I was just a bit confused, but it makes sense if you were overwhelmed. Don't worry about it. :)

I went ahead and pencilled the outline, then added some flat colours (remappable colours) so it wouldn't be so hard to see everything. I'll attach those onto here. When you're ready to pay, send the 15 in a money order/check to this address:

Timothy J. Currier
(Address Removed, obviously)

Tim's a friend of mine. I usually have commission money sent to him for the sake of convenience, 'cause I use his paypal account to buy stuff online or just hold money until I need it.

Anyway, I hope you like the port so far!

Here's some links to the port versions that I had attached to that email: http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8493/escalinaportlineart8oy.gif
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4899/escalineportscreenshot4os.jpg


Kitsune Martin
to me
More options 2:37 pm (9 hours ago)
Oh, wow, um, that looks really, really odd now that you've colored it. I mean, really odd. I'm not sure I want to give 15 dollars for it anymore...

Daniella Allen
to Kitsune
More options 11:41 pm (2 minutes ago)
Er? What's odd about it? It's not shaded or anything and those are the colours you have to use to remap. Plus I haven't added markings yet. It looks fine to me and everyone else that's seen it..

But honestly, I'm not willing to do the whole thing over again. I hate doing portraits. I'll probably just sell this port at an auction or give it to a friend or something. I'm sorry I couldn't give you what you wanted.

Take care. :)


I tried to be as polite as possible. I would have been willing to work things out if they hadn't already been kind of difficult to deal with, and I really didn't want to redo the portrait (my problem, I know). So now I have a useless port that I've already worked hard on that they suddenly don't want to pay for. I don't want to claim they stole it because I have no proof and it's possible they really didn't like the way it turned out, but it's a possibility that keeps nagging me.

What do you guys think? Am I overreacting? Does the port really look like crap, or what?

If this person commissions you, just be careful. Especially if they're having a bad day.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
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Comments

( 31 comments — Leave a comment )
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skulldog
May. 13th, 2006 06:50 am (UTC)
I think you acted in a completely reasonable manner. Hell, 15 was way too little for the work anyway..

Her line "tell me what I am paying or I'm dropping it now" got me, like, she's doing some great honor to commission you and she'll drop it if you don't behave.

Tell her to take a hike and re-sell it as is.
kayla_la
May. 13th, 2006 08:57 am (UTC)
Thank you for the kind words. :)

I'm not sure if I'll have any luck reselling it, though. I might finish colouring it and just ask after uploading it to DA if anyone wants to buy it, and leave it there. If I don't get any takers after a while I'll probably just find someone to give it to, I'd hate to see it go to waste.
(no subject) - ex_midnightf139 - May. 13th, 2006 09:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
westly_roanoke
May. 13th, 2006 06:53 am (UTC)
Seems like people buying 'ports' have problems with getting their artwork and taking off.

The whole "I"m not paying for a crap port!" is stupid..

And that picture was awesome!
gungho_squirrel
May. 13th, 2006 07:07 am (UTC)
The first problem: It's Furcadia. Don't get me wrong, I used to sit around on it all the time and I still go on from time to time... but most of the people on that game are cheap jerks. They do anything to get digos and ports for free- to downright begging and pleading and offering role-played sex acts.

This person likely ran off with your port- as it looks really good with just flat colors (some ports turn out pretty neat without shading) so I'm assuming they've uploaded it and are using it.

The people that run Furcadia are a bunch of lazy bastards who don't support, persue or aid in any way with transactions of this sort going bad. They place the blame entirely on the person that got screwed over and move on.

I'm really sorry this had to happen to you. You're a good artist and you do great ports- the amount of detail in that is wonderful... but it's long gone.

When I took Furcadia port commissions I only showed them the sketch and some of the pixel line work. They didn't see the finished piece until I had recieved payment. It seems pushy and rude to me to treat commissions like that, but honestly, if you want to get paid for your hard work, there's no other choice.
kayla_la
May. 13th, 2006 09:00 am (UTC)
I dunno what I was thinking when I gave them the flat colours, I really don't. I usually make a point of trying to keep the chance of theft down to a minimum. I just got careless this time.

I sure learned my lesson, though. :(

But thanks for the support. :)
aaaamory
May. 13th, 2006 07:07 am (UTC)
I just had to do a little research to check this other person's age. Be careful when you're dealing with someone who can legally 'ditch' a contract (It's either 13 or 18). Also, be sure they're old enough to commission images of that nature or else if their parents really disapprove they could sue you for everything and more.

You have to be really careful about this on Furcadia. 99% of folks on there I've dealt with are too young!
aaaamory
May. 13th, 2006 07:33 am (UTC)
There are certain rules I follow. I absolutely will not do commissions for anyone 13 or under. It's just not legal to do contracts with someone under 13. Under 18 is a little shady, but, if they really, really want it, I'll tell them to get their parents to commission me on their behalf. That way if they want something 'questionable,' I have mom's approval to go ahead. I'll do whatever for folks 18 and up.

This person you did this artwork for is 17. You're lucky the mom didn't see the picture. Or if she did, didn't do anything about it (and she absolutely could have). Seeing that the commissioner is specifically asking for a 'sexy' look and saying that nudity is okay may be one explanation of why the mom closed paypal, finding out what her daughter was doing online and wanting to protect her.

She also could have been spending a lot of money with paypal and her mom couldn't control it or got overwhelmed and halted it the best way she knew how, which is what my brother kind of did to my mom once.
(no subject) - fareme - May. 13th, 2006 08:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - May. 13th, 2006 09:04 am (UTC) - Expand
xianjaguar
May. 13th, 2006 07:13 am (UTC)
Wow.
What do I think?
I think you should accept the money UP FRONT before you start ANY work.
I also think they were very very rude to you. You maintained a good professional attitude though.

This person sounds like a flake... AND... under-age.
kayla_la
May. 13th, 2006 09:13 am (UTC)
They say they're commissioning lots and lots of ports from other people. I wonder how well the other ones are going, and I'm still curious about this "perfect port" they referred to!

Anyway, thank you for the support, I really appreciate it. :)
coyotewings
May. 13th, 2006 07:33 am (UTC)
Umm...okay? I think everything she's been saying is quite out of line.

I think you've acted quite reasonable and actually very tolerant with this person. They had no reason to act like that.
And I know for a fact that working on ports isn't easy, I hate doing them as well...the port doesn't look bad at all, in fact...I quite like it.

You didn't overreact and there is nothing wrong with the work you did, atleast in my mind.
kayla_la
May. 13th, 2006 09:15 am (UTC)
Thank you hun. :)

I wouldn't have been so upset by this whole thing if they hadn't been so insulting about it. If they had just pointed out something they thought looked strange, that'd have been another matter, but going, "It looks really odd, I don't want to pay for it anymore!" was infuriating.
izzyferret
May. 13th, 2006 11:43 am (UTC)
I think everyone already said everything I had in mind, but first off, I'd like to give you kudos for being polite. Although never say sorry for something you didn't do...that's reserved for retail workers and people who suckup to their boss. XD The commissioner may seem like the boss, but you're in control, really.

By the way, that is a damn good port, and I'm sure you coulda sold it to me for at LEAST $30 back in my big Furc days >_>

kayla_la
May. 13th, 2006 03:10 pm (UTC)
That's very flattering! Too bad it's too late to take you up on that offer, but thank you regardless. :)
banka_flavored
May. 13th, 2006 12:17 pm (UTC)
I think you were very mature about it and calm as well. Hell, i would have not done so well in your position. I would have probably flipped on her. I kind of feel like you did too much before getting paid. Its a great work, but maybe you could have waited till you got paid before going further with it? The way she just dropped it after it was colored sounds kind of fishy to me. Your not overeacting in the least about it.

besides the fact she wasnt clear, kind of bounced around, and was rude as well.
kayla_la
May. 13th, 2006 03:13 pm (UTC)
Yeah. Normally my policy is to only show lineart and then wait to get paid. I guess I just wasn't thinking when I figured it'd be a good idea to let them see the flat colours (I have honestly had a horrible week, my brain was probably set to off). :( I learned my lesson!

And thank you!
(no subject) - banka_flavored - May. 13th, 2006 07:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
fragirl
May. 13th, 2006 04:19 pm (UTC)
You behaved perfectly, I would have lost my patience after realising I'm dealing with a 5 year old. The language used by her made it quite obvious.

And you shouldnt feel like you did anything bad at all! You were perfectly polite and professional and this person obviously is a liar and has very little clue what they are speaking about.

I think 15.00 is far too cheap for the quality you do, and I also think you need to get at least half the funds up front, it shows they are serious.

Either way, sorry you had to deal with it =/ Sounds like no fun at all! Just dont think you did anything wrong!
kayla_la
May. 13th, 2006 04:43 pm (UTC)
Thank you very much! I've felt a lot better reading all the replies here. I was honestly thinking when I first went to submit the entry that I was overreacting by being bothered by it at all.

I think if I get any reply to that last email I sent them, I'll edit the entry to add it, but I haven't gotten one yet and there's a good chance I won't, which really isn't a bad thing. I don't exactly want to deal with them anymore.
ratbat
May. 13th, 2006 05:17 pm (UTC)
man the artists in the furry comunity bend over backwards for commisions. If this was me, I would have just been like the soup nazi and screamed "no soup for you!" and asked them to leave. If you dont stand for that weird shit in the e-mail you stop getting problems.
huskie666
May. 13th, 2006 05:33 pm (UTC)
ugh.. i think this asshole needs to scrape off that last smudging of shit coating her wrinkly-asshole face :3
I'm sorry you had to deal with this person..
~~Huskie
capuu
May. 13th, 2006 05:38 pm (UTC)
You were AMAZINGLY tolerant. o_o Go you.

Like other people have said, there's no need to apologize when you're not retail. Something I'd like to add, though, that unless you really, REALLY need the money, never put up with someone who resorts to "I'll drop you/won't commission you!" bullying as way of negotiating, no matter what age they are. I had a commissioner do that once, and I just handed back his up-front payment and wished him the best.
huskie666
May. 13th, 2006 05:47 pm (UTC)
wtf.. she's a thief too!!?
i just looked up her email address in google and it looks like this little cunt is stealing artwork as well :D
http://www.advancedanime.com/profile.php?member=KitsuneAura&PHPSESSID=7f58f9f9

the first bloody picture is by Aura Moser of Arania's character Ambrose: http://arania.kamiki.net/Ambrose/Ambrose%20colored%20by%20Aura%20Moser%20copy.jpg
I looked through about 10 of apperantly 55 images in her stupid little 'gallery' and there is EVEN A PLACE TO GIVE CREDIT and what's truly irritating is most of the time, she'll say 'Original. By ME' bs or she'll give a link to DA BUT somehow it's -still- her drawing
This kid is fucking mental. I have great anger a-brewin..
god help her if i find one of my pieces mixed into that stew of crap.
~~Huskie
huskie666
May. 13th, 2006 05:49 pm (UTC)
Re: wtf.. she's a thief too!!?
Here's a thumbnail gallery-view link of 'her' shit.
http://www.advancedanime.com/thumbnails.php?g=11&p=1
~~Huskie
Re: wtf.. she's a thief too!!? - yiffyraptor - May. 13th, 2006 06:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: wtf.. she's a thief too!!? - kayla_la - May. 14th, 2006 07:16 am (UTC) - Expand
shimmerhawk
May. 13th, 2006 09:18 pm (UTC)
I think it looks fine. Tell her to grow up and act somewhat professional when she's commissioning things. But it looks like she steals art too, looks like you just got a really bad commissioner.
xothia
May. 13th, 2006 10:39 pm (UTC)
I have a strict policy of getting anything up to 100$ up front to even start a commish (rest can be paid later), or providing a VERY rough "sample" first if I don't have anything similar to show in my gallery, but that's IT until I get the money.

If they're really unsatisfied with the finished piece (hasn't happened yet, but you never know, we all have bad days) I'd be willing refund half the total price but since I put a lot of work in already and don't do it for nothing I need to get paid something. Plus, selling another's character can be hard.

However, I tend to avoid taking commissions from people who crit other commish work they had done as not being "perfect" as this shows they either don't research the person before trying to buy art or they don't respect that an artist can't possibly get into their heads and we each have our own style that we bring to the plate.

Also, the second someone's rude to me, deal's off. I'm EXTREMELY obliging and generous when it comes to giving people good art for their money, but don't bully or take advantage. Sorry, there are plenty of others willing to pay. You sound like you have a similar attitude to me, so don't question your integrity, stand up for yourself.

Lastly, believe in your work. If you do it with love and passion, then charge what you're worth for it. Don't sell yourself short and don't feel you need to prove anything to anyone. People in the fandom seem to undercharge on a grand scale. Be competitive, but be fair to yourself.

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