?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Artist - Raikhan/Deli-cat

WHO: Raikhan / deli-cat

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6003987/ http://raikhan.sofurry.com/ https://inkbunny.net/Raikhan http://deli-cat.tumblr.com/

WHEN: July 2012 - April 2014

PROOF AND EXPLAIN:
Throughout the passed two years, I asked for updates and got either completely ignored for months at a time or received multiple "excuses" such as files got corrupted, or my mother has cancer. I stated multiple times that if the artist was unable to perform the duties to draw my commission I would be happy to just find someone else to do it and just get a refund.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7oxd1cfcocf53v8/excuse1.PNG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/achlq8wuhsbqjod/excuse2.PNG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rov32ghc3rmvtn0/excuse3.PNG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/62szgoanvjtfrp7/excuse4.PNG




7/1/2012 I query about price of the commission of 2 characters split payments agreement for progression on the commission for every payment
https://www.dropbox.com/s/22gqwr147t04i2z/progression%20per%20payment.PNG

7/3/2012 Added additional character and renegotioated price. I organized the commission information in one large note with all the details needed for the art.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n228mpjp6ll4bs9/Commission%20Details.PNG

7/5/2012 Sent $50 payment https://www.dropbox.com/s/onn6hp93kqf3tfa/paypal%20transactions.PNG (this screenshot shows both my payments to her and the refund from her.)

8/9/2012 I am told that the sketch and color blocking is completed and asked if i want to see a WIP which I reply yes
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ws91t9u4amgbf8u/sketch%20done.PNG

9/27/2012 I finally receive the WIP I was told was complete on 8/9/2012 I also sent another $50 payment https://www.dropbox.com/s/onn6hp93kqf3tfa/paypal%20transactions.PNG (same link as above, has all the transaction with the artist)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ucua4nluxjy9oa7/sketch.PNG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6lwj317ju5udo8u/sketch.jpg

5/11/2013 "color scheme" update
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xy8aaexfi1p8z5v/matsi%20wip.jpg

5/11/2013 Last Contact until April 2nd 2014 when I posted into her shoutbox(she deleted these so I don't have screenshots of them)
Here are 3 of the notes I sent to here one every few months asking for updates (since it took nearly 3 months just to get the sketches and because the poor communication I really wanted updated WiP before I sent the final payment because at this point I was already feeling like it was not going to ever be completed and I didn't want to lose even more money on it...)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zoj0h6sglel8gnh/ignored%20note1.PNG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93td92s9i13gpec/ignored%20note2.PNG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yq3jwg5b41en0vs/ignored%20note2%20still%20unread.PNG (you can see in this one that she STILL hasn't even read this note...)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pacvqiexnpcfr8m/ignored%20note3.PNG

4/2/2014 I get a response; stating that I never paid the full amount(I hadn't sent the 3/3 payment because I had no contact and received no updated WIP of the art, which should have been fully colored but not yet shaded... Also that I "never told her that the character had 3 heads and 4 arms"
Artist stated she would be sending me a refund sometime within the next month minus time spent on the art, which she claimed was 2 hours(which certainly isnt 2/3 of the ~10 hrs I was charged total for the commission, going by the artists commission prices.
Screenshot of her 4 shouts on my page: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lf2hsw8wv90tfhh/FA%20shouts.PNG

The refund conversation went as follows... sadly I do not have screenshots of what I posted onto her page because she deleted them every time she replied:
Her saying "You never paid the full amount and didn't mention that your char has 3 heads and 4 arms :/ But I am done here, give me your paypal, I'll send you a refund."
Me saying something about how I DID in fact say the character had 3 heads and 4 arms, and you can see that in the screenshots above where she even says something about how she wants to make sure the arms are positioned well.... and I also mentioned that I didn't make the final payment because she was ignoring me and not sending me a WiP where the picture was progressed enough to receive the 3rd payment.
Her Saying The last WIP I provided was the main char almost done, atmosphere in, starting on bg. So much for WIP's not happening...
Me asking When I will get the refund
her saying "Mid of April minus the hours spent on it."
Me asking hour many hours that was
Her saying "2"


4/23/2014 I receive a "refund" from the artist of 50.56EUR, which is neither the currency the artist lists for what she charges for commission nor what I paid in, the transaction was also sent as a "payment for goods/services". this costed me several dollars in Paypal fees for being "a purchase" AND to convert the currency into USD, so instead of receiving a $70 refund from the $100 I paid, I wind up with $65. (I feel like this was very inappropriate, and that if you accept and list your prices in USD, the refunds should be in USD as well! And to send it in such a way that it charges me fees as if she was buying something from me instead of refunding my payments is nonsense.)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrpdmno6yrrq5yt/currency.PNG

I am happy that I at least got some of my money back, for over a year I thought I would just have no art and no refund...but I feel entitled to the remaining amount refunded and I feel scammed.

I am posting this, not expecting to get anything more for me, but to warn others so that they do not have to experience the same thing I did from this artist!
Before commenting, please read our Community Rules.
Do not go after persons posted about here, by leaving comments on their art pages.
If you have been posted about, please read I've Been Posted on Artists_Beware, Now What?

Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
tock_fast
May. 21st, 2014 04:31 pm (UTC)
Beware well warranted. For over a years wait, with WIP deadlines missed and notes flat out ignored; you should have gotten the complete refund, especially with the amount of work done.

The character is not 'almost finished', it's been blocked in with slight detailing started on the faces.

"atmosphere in", is a solid brown backdrop with a sketch over-top and loose blocking.

Maybe it did take 2 hours to paint, but going by their own price guide, 2.5 hours buys a completely painted small character.

Also, if you "never told her that the character had 3 heads and 4 arms" like they claimed... what did they think they were painting? Maybe it was so long, they forgot.

Usually when a client initiates a refund, I side with the artist for keeping a percentage for the amount of work they've completed. Not is this case. They failed to keep you informed and it was their behavior and bad business that warranted the need for a refund in the first place. It's in my opinion that they were in the wrong for keeping anything, considering things. They were especially in the wrong for sending the refund back to you as they did. That's shady business and bad taste.

I'm always sorry to hear about bad transactions, and I'm sorry this happened to you. Better luck in the future!

magicporpoise
May. 21st, 2014 10:30 pm (UTC)
I agree. The character having 3 heads and 4 arms is obviously going to be a crucial detail, there is no excuse for her not knowing it unless she had forgotten because of the time length. Having those extra features on a character is OBVIOUSLY going to be pointed out, lmao.
matsiwolf
May. 21st, 2014 10:51 pm (UTC)
The thing that takes the cake for me was the refund being sent in Euros... a currency that I didn't pay in, and also not what her listed prices are in.... so like, WTFox?!

Also... the comment about how I never said the character had 3 heads/4arms... yet you can see in the screenshot she states: "alright, 3 heads, 4 arms on one were and one rainbow hybrid :D yes, that is no problem, I'd have to send you 1 or 2 sketches though to ensure all 4 arms are doing what you want them to do^^ *same for the heads*"
https://www.dropbox.com/s/22gqwr147t04i2z/progression%20per%20payment.PNG

Your probably right tho that in 2 years she just forgot....
foxhack
May. 22nd, 2014 05:12 am (UTC)
PayPal does not support gift payments in certain countries - like Germany - due to local laws. The user's profile says she's from there.

That might have been the reason why you didn't get a gift refund.

Edited at 2014-05-22 05:15 am (UTC)
kattotang
May. 22nd, 2014 06:42 am (UTC)
They can, however, send it in USD, choose to pay the exchange rate fee, and calculate Paypal's seller fees to include a little extra so it comes out even on her end. Maybe they might not consider that last one, but there's no excuse to not do the first two.
foxhack
May. 22nd, 2014 02:58 pm (UTC)
Hey, I'm not excusing the actions. I'm just saying there's a reason for the lack of a gift payment.
kattotang
May. 22nd, 2014 05:06 pm (UTC)
Yeah, but that wasn't even what Matsiwolf was complaining about, so like ???
ljmydayaway
May. 22nd, 2014 05:05 pm (UTC)
If you look on the screencap, there's no exchange rate fee being charged.

I'm not sure if the seller sent the right amount for the refund, but it's possible they may have accounted for PP fees since it ends up transferring into an almost exact amount ($65.01?) after the fees are taken out. Just seems odd to send a strange amount like .56 as a refund. o _O

Not trying to speak for the artist here, I have no idea and it seems there was very little communication. It's a good idea as a business person to provide a very detailed refund "receipt" when doing partial refunds (or really any, but especially important with partial refunds).
kattotang
May. 22nd, 2014 05:26 pm (UTC)
They didn't account for Paypal fees because the amount they sent before fees--that is, 50.56 euros--was the $70 they were supposed to refund to Matsiwolf, but they only got $65 due to the fees. As for the conversion fee...I'm pretty sure exchange rate fees don't show up separate from other fees, isn't it just a total sum? I could be wrong about that (I've used Paypal's currency converter a lot, but it's been a while since I've had to pay the exchange rate fee), but I do know that the main complaint of sending it in euros instead of US dollars is entirely valid. Not only did Matsiwolf not get the total refund they were supposed to get due to Paypal fees...because those fees were in euros, they were more expensive.
matsiwolf
May. 22nd, 2014 08:34 pm (UTC)
Not only were the normal fees more expensive in euros... but there was a fee for the currency exchange it just doesn't show it, but it did when I converted it... it was like $2.05 or something. I think they lower the "exchange rate" to cover the fee of converting it.

But again like I have said before, the fees and refund were only a small part of this issue as a whole...
kattotang
May. 23rd, 2014 02:04 am (UTC)
Ah...that's how I thought it worked.

And yeah, the way I see it, the way they did the refund was essentially the icing on a crap cake.
matsiwolf
May. 22nd, 2014 07:30 am (UTC)
I'm talking about the currency tho.... I can sort of understand the not sending the refund as gift, but the artist's commission prices are listed in USD, I paid in USD, she should have refunded in USD.

Either way the refund issues are a small issue in a far larger terrible experience.
tock_fast
May. 22nd, 2014 09:20 pm (UTC)
Maybe someone had paid her in Euros and she was trying to get rid of it so she didn't have to convert it herself?

Back before I started using invoices for my work, if someone paid me in the incorrect currency, (USD instead of CAD), I'd buy something online instead of transferring it to my bank.

That's about the only reason I could see, unless it was a final 'f-u' or something. D:
kattotang
May. 23rd, 2014 02:07 am (UTC)
Paypal actually automatically converts currencies, even if it doesn't show it that way in your Paypal account. And by this I mean if you transfer to your bank account, there shouldn't be any additional fees--it should simply send the equivalent amount of your local currency.

Or, at least, that's how it's supposed to work anyway. It might depend on the bank/country. I don't know much about Canadian banks, as my experience has been with American and Dutch banks, so yeah.
mistresswolf
May. 23rd, 2014 03:47 am (UTC)
*nod* I am Canadian, but I charge USD (since the majority of my customers are from the US I find it more convenient)... when I go to withdraw it to my bank account, I just enter the amount of USD I want to withdraw, and it automatically converts it to CAD for me. Their currency exchange rates seem to be built in to the rate they tell you. For example, if xe.com says that $1USD is worth $1.10CAD, PayPal might say that it is only worth $1.07CAD and keep that leftover $0.03 for themselves.
nakoothetauren
May. 23rd, 2014 05:56 am (UTC)
^This. I accept payments in USD and take money out to my bank account to AUD (Australian Dollars). The exchange rate paypal gives is always 2-5c less than what I would see else where.
ljmydayaway
May. 21st, 2014 05:54 pm (UTC)
You can't process a refund in Paypal from a payment made almost two years ago.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/bizui/SendRefund-outside

"You can send refunds within 60 days of receiving a payment."

They could have sent it as a gift to avoid the fees (I'm not sure on Paypal's stance on that, though).
magicporpoise
May. 21st, 2014 10:27 pm (UTC)
Wow, her excuses were one after another. If life really is taking over, she could have refunded you, instead of troubling you. Thanks for the beware, I will avoid her like the plague.
(Screened comment)
oceandezignz
May. 23rd, 2014 01:19 am (UTC)
Mod Note
You'll need to provide concrete proof of her actually being on those accounts. In the meantime, this comment is going to be screened.
matsiwolf
May. 23rd, 2014 02:31 pm (UTC)
Re: Mod Note
http://progressivepit.deviantart.com/gallery/
http://cottondragon.deviantart.com/gallery/

Same submissions on both of those silverwolf mentioned as in the one I dealt with on FA http://www.furaffinity.net/user/raikhan/ if that is enough proof.

Cotton dragon also lists her name as Natalie, and location Germany, both of which are correct. Also has a link to http://nwalter.tumblr.com/

If these are enough proof and since she has listed both her first and last name online, would it be acceptable to add "Natalie Walter" to the OP so that anyone seeing it through paypal would be able to know it's her if she does switch accounts again?

Edited at 2014-05-23 02:37 pm (UTC)
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )

Profile

A_B icon
artists_beware
Commissioner & Artist, Warning & Kudos Community

Community Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com