Hey guys. I've had a problem with a recent customer of mine using Artist Beware as a threat/last resort to get their way. I have used this community to look up questionable clients as well as artists, but I'm very aware of the permanent damage an Artist Beware post can do to one's name, resolved or not. I feel that's been used against me in this case.
The situation I'm in is this: I take custom repeatable pattern commissions that can be printed on fabric, wallpaper, books, etc. I had a client ask me not to sell their design, which I didn't, but I had it publicly listed on my Spoonflower as part of my portfolio. I recently attended a few events that involved me sharing my website with potential clients and editors, and since surface design is an interest of mine, I felt the more work the better.
Fast forward to this week and I get a short email from said client asking me to remove the pattern since it's their character. I'm very aware of artist rights, and not having written over rights I'm fully allowed to have it posted on my shop. It's worth noting, however, that I make next to no sales and was not exactly worried about it selling. Not having it listed for sale, though, would mean it wouldn't be visible on my main page. Editors don't exactly spend tons of time scouring every page on someone's site. You can see where I'm going here.
It's also worth noting that said client and I were on good terms with one another up until recent events that made me uncomfortable to the point of distancing myself. Regardless, I tried to stay as collected as possible to get across 1) That I own the rights to the image 2) I had no recorded sales on the fabric, and 3) The shop is part of my portfolio, which is why it was posted. They acknowledged that Spoonflower would not remove the art, so they informed me that they would come to Artist Beware if it was not removed. Feeling as though my hand was forced, I removed the pattern from my site.
While I feel my actions are justified, I wasn't willing to run the risk them posting about me. So my question is this: When confronted with the threat of an Artist Beware post, what can you even do? This is such a small community and niche audience that I feel it's dangerous to even risk them going through with it. I'd appreciate any input.
Thanks guys!
The situation I'm in is this: I take custom repeatable pattern commissions that can be printed on fabric, wallpaper, books, etc. I had a client ask me not to sell their design, which I didn't, but I had it publicly listed on my Spoonflower as part of my portfolio. I recently attended a few events that involved me sharing my website with potential clients and editors, and since surface design is an interest of mine, I felt the more work the better.
Fast forward to this week and I get a short email from said client asking me to remove the pattern since it's their character. I'm very aware of artist rights, and not having written over rights I'm fully allowed to have it posted on my shop. It's worth noting, however, that I make next to no sales and was not exactly worried about it selling. Not having it listed for sale, though, would mean it wouldn't be visible on my main page. Editors don't exactly spend tons of time scouring every page on someone's site. You can see where I'm going here.
It's also worth noting that said client and I were on good terms with one another up until recent events that made me uncomfortable to the point of distancing myself. Regardless, I tried to stay as collected as possible to get across 1) That I own the rights to the image 2) I had no recorded sales on the fabric, and 3) The shop is part of my portfolio, which is why it was posted. They acknowledged that Spoonflower would not remove the art, so they informed me that they would come to Artist Beware if it was not removed. Feeling as though my hand was forced, I removed the pattern from my site.
While I feel my actions are justified, I wasn't willing to run the risk them posting about me. So my question is this: When confronted with the threat of an Artist Beware post, what can you even do? This is such a small community and niche audience that I feel it's dangerous to even risk them going through with it. I'd appreciate any input.
Thanks guys!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
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That said, it really does depend on the case. Sometimes people feel they have to use it as a last resort to get it resolved before coming to AB, and other people feel the mere mention of it is good enough to get their way. I feel like people forget that we do have to approve these posts, and you can't just post whatever you want to harass someone who didn't give you what you demanded.
If you know you're in the right, don't let the threat shake you. Remember that they have to get it by -us- first, and we need enough proof for a case for that. If someone threatens you and you think you're in the right, you're always free to make up your own post on a problem customer/artist or even just PM a moderator with details and ask for advice. We've helped in cases like that before, actually!
Maybe you guys need a community email address or something? Though I doubt anyone would log into it often enough to see new messages in a timely manner.
Edited at 2014-05-02 07:55 pm (UTC)
And for argument's sake, if it did get posted: In my time here, I've come to see that the members here are very smart and weigh things before judging. I see people asking clarifying questions and pointing out when an artist/commissioner may have intended to do something other than what was assumed, etc. As such, I don't feel like having a beware posted about someone is a "death sentence".
Edited at 2014-05-02 07:34 pm (UTC)
That said, you did agree that you wouldn't sell the art and then technically put it up for sale though, which is a little... eh. He has no way of knowing how many sales you make, so to him it looks like you're reselling it after you agreed not to. I can understand why he'd be upset, since you basically failed to hold up your end of the agreement. It's been mentioned about buying the rights to the image that would allow him to make the demands to not sell it, but... you agreed to what he was asking without requesting payment in exchange. That's sort of on you.
I'm just trying to see it from his perspective, you know? And that's another reason artist_beware is both a good and bad thing--some people will agree with the artist, some will agree with the client.
I understand seeing it from all points of view, though. More than anything I know that this particular person has given friends of mine trouble, and I felt their approach to the situation was more aggressive than protecting their character. All this said, though, I didn't post the pattern to get revenge or anything. I have my patterns posted to Spoonflower so that potential clients can see the patterns and get a clear idea what they can be used for (fabric, wallpaper, wrapping paper, etc). Their character was generic enough that I wanted to use it in my portfolio.
Regardless, yes, I should have known better and not posted it. I know I won't be in the future, just because I have no want to deal with this person ever again. :\
It's not completely out of the question for your commissioner to look at it in your shop and assume that it's actually being sold, against their original agreement with you, even if it's only there for portfolio and promotional reasons.
I can see where the client was coming from. Regardless if you sold the rights or not, you agreed to not to do it without accepting a fee. If the client sees you posting it in your shop, yeah they're going to assume you're going against their wishes.
Being posted here isn't a death sentence, long as you provide clear and honest information, people can read through the posts and understand what's going on. If he does post it, gather information regarding the original agreement, conversations, and post a counter statement, clear, polite and concise, along with the conversations and agreements.
Otherwise you might want to add a note that it's not really for sale or find another way to showcase it.
As for using A_B as a threat, unless the customer has more information than you presented in this post I daresay the threat is effectively neutralized. Most artists here will acknowledge your rights and that the customer hasn't bought you out of said rights, so his request is moot.
Heading him off at the pass was probably the best course of action, I don't think the mods are likely to approve their post unless it contains a good deal of new and relevant information.
I really do not think there's anything else to add to the situation on their end. I've met their demands and I posted this here to ease my nerves, I guess. I feel better knowing that being here isn't the be-all, end-all I assumed it was.
Alternatively, see if Spoonflower would allow you to download the images and post them on your website, or maybe post them on your site and add a "photos copyright to Spoonflower" as a temporary solution until you can have the designs shipped to you to be photographed.
You may fully have the rights to do so, but it comes back looking bad on you.
As for using it as a threat, many people do this. If you know you're in the right, just ignore it. I have had many bad clients claim they would post me here, and once I've blocked them, that's the last I hear.
Edit - I want to clarify in the first sentence, that I mean posting it to a site that sells the items, not you actually selling it. All the client sees is a store, and that it can be purchased.
Edited at 2014-05-02 11:27 pm (UTC)
That said, it looks bad to agree to not have it up for sale yet list it, so. :-)
One possibility if you want it up there and can't fix the system is to set a really huge price just to make sure that nobody buys it. And if anyone does . . . I'm sure you could make it up to the commissioner.
Just tossing an idea out there. :o