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Refund Advice


I'm currently in a back and forth with a commissioner over a refund (no names of course.)

The issue being between the time of the commission and the time it was completed I had several irl events that eventually resulted in the temporary loss of access tot he account. Eventually I had a friend log into my account for me to upload art, reply to PMs, and help me get a huge mess sorted out.

With this particular commission, the commissioner was claiming I owed them for two pieces of work, one finished and one not finished and that they had sent me a note before I uploaded the commission. I told them that since I could not find a PM in my inbox, they hadn't replied to my refund journal, and my friend never saw the notice wanting a refund until a new message in my inbox a month after I uploaded the commission, I would refund them only one of the pieces.

I had asked them for a screen cap of the note, which they said they would provide, and then I didn't hear from them again until now. I asked for proof again, but they didn't provide it, so I just refunded them the larger half of the payment for the second commission that was never done.

They replied again, this time arguing my refund and requesting the full one and I asked them to refer to the previous notes as to why only one was refunded. They then replied back, finally, with a screen cap of the note.

I have no record of this note at all. Not in my outbox, not in my inbox, any folders, archives, or trash. My friend who was managing the account at the time hadn't seen it either.

I'm honestly at a loss for what to do.

Also, as a test, my friend came up with the idea of typing in the message number screencap into the address bar. When we type in the screencap the commissioner gave us, it says error.

Screencap from commissioner: http://i.imgur.com/MkWOSAP.png

Attempt to find the message through the address bar: http://i.imgur.com/yShv8Ap.png

My friend and I did a test where I sent her a message and both deleted them completely, even out of the trash, and it still shows up on both our ends with the address url, so she believes it is possible to be faked.

I'm more than happy to refund the commissioner if I am truly in the wrong, but taking everything into consideration, I'm not sure who is right?
I'd love any advice as to what the cause of the missing message would be!

Just to be sure 100%, since the forensics is questionable/debatable, I am sending the screencap/PM url to an admin to see if they can confirm if it is real or not.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


( 51 comments — Leave a comment )
Aug. 26th, 2013 10:18 pm (UTC)
They waited until after how long to give you the asked for cap needed for a full refund? And the cap leads to nowhere? I'd try to run their cap through something like this; http://fotoforensics.com/ (there was a better one out there I can't remember its name D:) to see if you can find any hints of foul play.
Aug. 26th, 2013 10:36 pm (UTC)
I just put the screencap into that website, and:

Everything pixel-y? Was edited. :|
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Aug. 26th, 2013 10:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nakoothetauren - Aug. 27th, 2013 05:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - vellacraptor - Aug. 26th, 2013 10:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - poptartkitty - Aug. 27th, 2013 01:18 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - karthegrax - Aug. 28th, 2013 08:44 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 26th, 2013 10:19 pm (UTC)
Wow. If that screencap is a fake message, that is a million different kinds of messed up :/
Aug. 26th, 2013 10:27 pm (UTC)
the best way to find out if the message is legit (If he didn't delete it as well) is to open a TT with the Message ID number, and an admin will confirm if it is in fact an actual note, or it the note is something completely different.
Aug. 26th, 2013 10:34 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - vellacraptor - Aug. 26th, 2013 10:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 26th, 2013 10:38 pm (UTC)

http://fotoforensics.com/ shows that this image was HEAVILY edited--the pixel-y parts show different compression levels.

OP, please don't give any more of a refund and please post a beware about this person.
Aug. 26th, 2013 10:43 pm (UTC)
Oh wow!
Vella, please post that beware if you are able ;_;
(no subject) - vellacraptor - Aug. 26th, 2013 10:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lackoflollies - Aug. 26th, 2013 10:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - vellacraptor - Aug. 26th, 2013 10:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lackoflollies - Aug. 26th, 2013 10:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Aug. 27th, 2013 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - vellacraptor - Aug. 27th, 2013 12:25 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Aug. 27th, 2013 12:17 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Aug. 27th, 2013 12:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Aug. 27th, 2013 12:25 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ctk_hullo - Aug. 27th, 2013 12:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - vellacraptor - Aug. 27th, 2013 03:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Aug. 27th, 2013 04:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Aug. 26th, 2013 10:42 pm (UTC)
Based on the above, and I just checked a note I got yesterday, it's at 3947. So this dude is lying, and needs to be exposed.
Aug. 26th, 2013 11:09 pm (UTC)
That is disgusting that they would do that. I will for certain be blocking them once a full beware is posted.
Aug. 27th, 2013 12:36 am (UTC)
Sorry I'm a little confused with what's going on: here is what I think is the situation but please correct me if I am wrong?

-- someone commissioned you for two pieces
-- you lost access to the account before posting anything. They claim during this time they asked for a refund on the commission, but this is the note that seems to have been lost
-- you finish one of the two commissions, regain access to the account via your friend, and the commission is posted
-- commissioner tells you they want a refund for BOTH pieces
-- you ask for proof of the refund request, and meanwhile refund the unfinished piece

So the current question is whether to give a full refund, including on the finished piece, and this hinges on whether the commissioner asked for a refund before it was posted?

I do think it's a good idea to ask the admins if they can tell whether or not the note is legit, if it being legit answers the question. One major question I do have is a timeline: how long were you away from your account and without any contact with this commissioner?

Edited at 2013-08-27 12:37 am (UTC)
Aug. 27th, 2013 12:59 am (UTC)
Yes that is correct. And a couple of months before my friend got worried about me and contacted me irl and offered to help. (For taking that long to come to that solution and be able to contact my commissioners, yes, I was in the wrong.)

They did send a note that would occur after the one in question, but that was received more than a month after the artwork was delivered which is why I was confused about their refund claim, which is a bit messier than here but I've nut-shelled it to get to the core of the issue.

We narrowed it down to being those two pieces that are in question, of which I've refunded 38$ of 55$, 55$ being the total of two pieces (the unfinished one 35$ the other finished art 20$).

Hope that answers your questions. :)
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Aug. 28th, 2013 01:06 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2013 03:11 am (UTC)
I'm a bit confused about the tool.. and how it works, I tried it out with both the image of the note from the OP and then tried one from one of my own beware posts.


Anyone care to explain? This is a cap of a paypal payment.
Aug. 27th, 2013 10:23 am (UTC)
This explains it. edited images will show the edited parts in strong white pixels

(no subject) - radcatastrophe - Aug. 27th, 2013 10:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2013 03:58 am (UTC)
Don't know about the tool, but looking at it super close between my own pms and this one, the font doesn't look quite right. Unless fA has different fonts between the dark and light layouts....
Aug. 27th, 2013 05:21 am (UTC)
It looks like on this 'cap the commissioner may be running a Mac OS: http://i.imgur.com/lCEkn13.png

Which could show different fonts?

Or they may be zoomed in/out which could also cause weird looking fonts.

Edited at 2013-08-27 05:22 am (UTC)
(no subject) - timelapsedecay - Aug. 27th, 2013 07:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2013 07:52 pm (UTC)
Notice everyone is assuming the note is fake. But I wanna point out that FA has had past problems with notes being eaten/disappearing on one end or another.

It isn't unlikely if that is the case. and he might be unaware that there was just a missed communication.

Honestly, either way, the art WAS delivered for one of the commissions and I would not refund someone in full and let them get off with free work in that case.
Aug. 27th, 2013 08:09 pm (UTC)
"Honestly, either way, the art WAS delivered for one of the commissions and I would not refund someone in full and let them get off with free work in that case."

Legit note or not. They got one piece of artwork from you and a refund for what you owed them.
You owe them nothing more, they should not get free art when their art was already completed.
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Aug. 28th, 2013 01:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 0acorn0 - Aug. 28th, 2013 01:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - vellacraptor - Aug. 28th, 2013 05:52 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mekania - Aug. 30th, 2013 02:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 0acorn0 - Aug. 30th, 2013 03:06 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2013 11:35 pm (UTC)
To note, one can hit F12 on Chrome and totally edit anything on anypage, using the admins for details will really help.
Aug. 28th, 2013 06:02 am (UTC)
I almost pushed F12 to test that out...until I remembered that my F12 is my wifi toggle button. lmao
(no subject) - catso_san - Aug. 28th, 2013 06:49 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - poptartkitty - Aug. 28th, 2013 07:18 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - catso_san - Aug. 28th, 2013 07:27 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - poptartkitty - Aug. 28th, 2013 09:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lackoflollies - Aug. 28th, 2013 12:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xubunturambles - Aug. 29th, 2013 07:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
( 51 comments — Leave a comment )


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