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Asked to pay as gift: Do I say anything?

While my post may be about collectibles, I feel it also applies to art and craft goods as well which is why I'm posting here.

I buy and sell collectible toys fairly often. Several times when buying a toy I've been asked to send payment as a gift (instead of goods which it should be) on Paypal. I've been on this comm long enough to know that A; it's against Paypal's ToS to ask your buyer to do that and that the gift function is not for goods, and B; if something goes wrong I can't dispute it.

When asked to send as a gift I send the payment as goods the fees on top so the seller gets the exact amount and so far nobody has been upset and in fact have been very polite about it.

When asked, do I tell the seller that it's against Paypal's ToS to ask that goods be sent as a gift? Tone isn't my forte so if yes, what would I say without coming across as "lecture-y" for the lack of better words?
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Comments

( 22 comments — Leave a comment )
thecreativepen
Jun. 17th, 2013 09:10 pm (UTC)
As a buyer, you are not required to cover the seller's fees, period. They should be factoring in those fees into their prices. I wouldn't feel obligated to include the fees when sending money as goods. You are buying a product advertised as $XX.XX, and you should only have to pay that amount.

In regards to the conversation, I would mention that it is against Paypal's TOS to send the payment as a gift, and both accounts would be put at risk for being shut down if this was discovered. I would then say that I am comfortable with sending the amount for the product as goods. If the seller turns it down, I would politely decline the purchase, move on, and take my business elsewhere quietly.
aerotheacrobat
Jun. 17th, 2013 09:31 pm (UTC)
I've been in this situation before and told the artist (I was buying art, not toys) I can't do that because it's against paypal's TOS and they will freeze accounts that get or give too many gifts. Luckily they were cool with it and I was nice enough to toss in a couple dollars extra to even it out anyway because she was easy to work with. Though, you are in no way are required to pay the fees. That's the seller's job.
rimpala
Jun. 17th, 2013 09:34 pm (UTC)
No O:

The two above posters gave why, but no you absolutely do not need to be paying as a gift payment, the seller needs to handle the fees not you.

Edited at 2013-06-17 09:36 pm (UTC)
(Deleted comment)
wuvvumsoc
Jun. 17th, 2013 10:10 pm (UTC)
I know one of my friends was insisting to send something to me as a gift but I put my foot down and said no to it.

There was a time where the few fees could have made all the difference in whether I entered a taxable amount or not for the year with the IRS. I'd rather take the fees. But also a friendship shouldn't negate the fact that it's a business transaction.

Ideally a gift should be money you receive without obligation, having nothing to do with your professional work.
mazz
Jun. 17th, 2013 10:27 pm (UTC)
I tell them "It's against paypal's TOS to pay as a gift and I'd prefer to pay as goods or services, thank you."
It's not lecturing it's stating why you won't pay as a gift. Some people may not know the rule of gifts.

I've had an artist stop replying to me when I told them I'd not pay as a gift.
kerstin_orion
Jun. 18th, 2013 12:19 am (UTC)
That would definitely be a warning sign for me...makes me suspicious that they may want the lack of buyer protection even more than the fee-free aspect.
kaelstra
Jun. 17th, 2013 10:51 pm (UTC)
Absolutely not. They're trying to skirt around Paypal policy by doing this, but it's really more your point "B" that is why you don't want to do it. Just send the payment as "goods" (I wouldn't even probably discuss it to be honest) and if they have a problem on their end, at least it's easier to resolve.
tealmoonxiv
Jun. 18th, 2013 12:03 am (UTC)
I would tell them it's against paypal's TOS then ask if I could send it as goods.

If they don't like that I'd move on.
(no subject) - fenris_lorsrai - Jun. 18th, 2013 12:47 am (UTC) - Expand
venatorrooc
Jun. 18th, 2013 12:57 am (UTC)
I always tell them that it's against Paypal's TOS and I wouldn't want either of us getting in trouble/having our accounts shut down. It's not lecture-y or accusatory and expresses concern, which isn't lying.
candycornsnake
Jun. 18th, 2013 01:24 am (UTC)
I would just say. I am sorry but it makes me uncomfortable to do that. - and leave it at that. You don't need to explain themselves. Everyone knows the rules.
marus_puppy
Jun. 18th, 2013 02:04 am (UTC)
Not everyone knows the rules, though. I'd say maybe 80-90% of the people will just click their agreement to the policies of a particular site without actually reading them.
candycornsnake
Jun. 18th, 2013 12:20 pm (UTC)
If they are asking you to mark as a gift...they know the rules.
tealmoonxiv
Jun. 18th, 2013 05:12 pm (UTC)
I know someone who didn't know it was against the rules, they just knew you didn't have to pay the fees.

Edited at 2013-06-18 05:12 pm (UTC)
sbneko
Jun. 18th, 2013 07:07 pm (UTC)
Just chimming in to agree that it doesn't mean they know the rules. When I first started out, all artists I knew were using the gift option, because artists they knew were using it. So when newbies asked for help, that's what they were instructed to do. It's only later I found out, from AB, that it's against the rules and why.

Commissioners are the same. Most commissioners will send things as a gift if you don't tell them not to because that's what they think they're supposed to do. So a good amount of people don't actually know about this stuff.
teekchan
Jun. 18th, 2013 02:07 am (UTC)
I'd drop work with someone who insisted I sent as a gift, especially after I've informed them it's against TOS.

Often I'll point this out on FA, trying to help out as it can result in a banned account. But people tend to flip out and then demand you pay the fees for them. These are people you want to avoid.
dazen_cobalt
Jun. 18th, 2013 02:22 am (UTC)
You have no power to dispute a claim if the payment is made via gift
slanderouslibel
Jun. 18th, 2013 03:50 am (UTC)
"Sorry, but I'm not comfortable breaking the ToS in this case. I never pay for goods using the gift option. I understand if you no longer wish to complete this transaction."
(I added the "in this case. I never pay for goods using the gift option." because I'm fairly sure everyone has something in some ToS they just laugh at, and adding this doesn't allow the other person to derail with that argument.)
xisidereal
Jun. 18th, 2013 04:20 am (UTC)
After reading the responses, what about when a buyer charges you more to cover the fees? I get a lot of rat supplies (hammocks, cage stuff) from folks and they charge me extra to cover the fees.
oceandezignz
Jun. 18th, 2013 04:58 am (UTC)
The fees are apart of a business person's overhead and should be already calculated into their fees, just like their utilities, rent, accounting, taxes etc. are. Ideally.

Paypal allows for their clients to charge the fee if its in the price, and there is zero mention of the fee... nor can the fee be tacked on after pricing either.

Lets say I have an item I value at $10 USD and I want exactly that much in my pocket when someone buys it, so I need to tack on $0.60 to the pricetag.

LEGAL in Paypal's eyes:
$10.60 is the exact, but you can round up to a more solid price of $10.75 or even $11.00. "The total will be $11, please forward that much to XXXXX@myemailacct.yah"

ILLEGAL in Paypal's eyes:
"That'll be $10, but please add on an extra $0.60 to cover the Paypal fees."

EQUALLY ILLEGAL in Paypal's eyes:
"Send me $10 under the friends & family/gift option please."

TL:DR: It is entirely legal to charge someone the fees, as they are the cost of doing business via Paypal, so its a business overhead expense, and customers help pay for businesses to stay operational with their purchases, yadda yadda. But the moment someone asks you to tack on ANY amount to cover fees, Paypal's merchant TOS is being broken.
thaily
Jun. 18th, 2013 09:10 am (UTC)
It would make me kind of suspicious, as you can't get a refund on money to sent as a gift. But a lot of people do it to dodge the fee, which is still not terribly honest but somewhat less shady? Just pay as goods and tell them "Hey, I paid as goods and added some extra to cover the fee, because Paypal can get crabby if you pay for goods as a gift. I wouldn't want you to get into trouble with Paypal and have your account frozen."

If you're still inclined to go ahead with the transaction and pay the fee that is. Personally, I wouldn't. It's goods or bust.
starcharmer
Jun. 27th, 2013 06:53 am (UTC)
I hate it when people send me money as a gift unless it's a tip on top of what they paid for their commission. This is one of the big reasons I no longer accept commission payments directly and instead insist upon sending invoices and having them pay through that.

I would just say "Sorry, I don't feel comfortable doing that as it would violate PayPal's ToS. May I send it as a goods transaction instead?" and if they refuse, move on.
( 22 comments — Leave a comment )

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