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TLDR: Bae bunny of fa made mistakes on a 100 dollar commission for 5 icons, 20 a piece. Makes many mistakes after agreeing to edits, then refuses the edits after a while demanding 75 usd, or they will dispute the transaction.

WHO: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/baebunny
WHERE: Furaffinity.net
WHAT: 5 icons for 100.00 usd, Made mistakes and refuses to continue editing unless they receive an addtional 75.00usd

WHEN: A few months ago to current day.
commission dissussions:
http://i.imgur.com/sTbQ4ul.png
http://i.imgur.com/fq4AAoy.png
http://i.imgur.com/yc5aDPs.png (they got the 5 customs)

Artist agrees to make edits:
http://i.imgur.com/7NUeueh.png
http://i.imgur.com/n4Qbk2q.png


Bae claims before argument that they are raising prices here on out: http://i.imgur.com/0mhp1kH.png

Bae claims to dispute the payment unless paied: http://i.imgur.com/Sj3esrA.png

My responce after being told I would have to pay more or be disputed: http://i.imgur.com/8tdCrMM.png

My self expaining some edits that are needed to be done: http://i.imgur.com/Vq1cIVQ.png

My refernaces:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10133553 (WARNING MAY BE NSFW)
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10241628
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10241557

as you can see these references are very detailed so the mistakes are on the Bae's not mine.

One of the icons where the frames are botched: http://i.imgur.com/Aalz7bu.gif
in this icon you see the horn is messed up, and they refused to fix this icon as well as the other 3.
this is the only icon done correctly but edits still needed to be made at first, http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10491255/

you can see here that he requires the reffernaces so he can evuate his prices: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8786918/

Explain: He's done this work a lot they should have known better then to take this commission for that price. Bae knew the difficulty of this project and still took it on, why should I have to pay 75.00 usd for something they messed up? This sounds kinda fishy and scam like to get more money out me.

Take for example you have a mechanic fix your car, and they mess up, would you pay them more to fix it?
this could have been avoided if the user had a tos stating that after a certain amount of edits the commissioner would then pay edit fee's, this user does not have a TOS that I can find.

There are more notes that aren't shown due to the fact it's the same argument over and over, I paid you for this, why won't you finish your job?

Icons they are very personable to the people getting them, and at 20 apiece you expect them to be very well done. after being on a waiting list for months, they are contacted a few weeks ago and they paid for the work and now this... The artist has not replied in about 24 hours, but has read the notes sent by the user.


What do?
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 168 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 3
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kayla_la
May. 11th, 2013 08:47 pm (UTC)
I will only say this once. Criticism of the behaviour of both the customer and artist are allowed, but I expect all of you to be civil while doing so. This is your only warning on that. If you don't think you can express yourself politely, don't do it at all.
wuvvumsoc
May. 11th, 2013 08:52 pm (UTC)
Oh dear.

I recommended Bae Bunny when I had a picky customer I didn't want to handle myself. I kind of hope this isn't normal for him.
wuvvumsoc
May. 11th, 2013 08:56 pm (UTC)
Icons they are very personable to the people getting them, and at 20 apiece you expect them to be very well done.

I just want to note that no, I wouldn't expect them to be very well done. Someone came to me with that attitude and I turned them away because after we "haggled" over the price he mentioned how he was expecting something good, when he wanted something fully animated. He even said because it's "just an icon" he expected $20 to be a lot. It is not.

They are animated. Even if he's taking the tweened route (which saves some time) it can still take 2-5 hours to make one. Bae's undercharging.
epiceternity
May. 11th, 2013 09:30 pm (UTC)
Agree, $20 would probably get you a well done static icon but is way too low for an animated one. It's clear that the issue is the artist undercharged in the first place.
(no subject) - wuvvumsoc - May. 11th, 2013 09:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - epiceternity - May. 11th, 2013 09:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wuvvumsoc - May. 12th, 2013 02:28 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - rimpala - May. 12th, 2013 03:59 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tealmoonxiv - May. 11th, 2013 10:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wuvvumsoc - May. 11th, 2013 10:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
epiceternity
May. 11th, 2013 09:19 pm (UTC)
Looking at this one- http://i.imgur.com/Aalz7bu.gif I can straight away see two major issues, the horn and ear closest swap position during the head turn and there's something wrong going on at the end of the cycle with the wing and tail movements resulting in an odd popping effect. As an former animator myself there's no way I'd be happy with those two really obvious issues going on in something I produced. The corrected one looks good so i'm surprised that there's no pride on his behalf in wanting the others to be good too. Seems the artist just baulked at the idea of the work involved to fix things.

Yes, normally it's not really on to charge more money after the commission, if you don't charge enough to start with normally you just have to suck it up and learn from it. However I can't find anything about this artists rule to edits. Usually some artists allow a certain amount of edits before charging but not always the case. Without an edit rule set before the commission started, it becomes a bit of a grey area.

With the example of that icon with the issues given, it seems that the mistakes are within the animation itself so I think it's bad form to charge for fixing them, esp with no info that mistakes will be charged expressed prior to the contract.




epiceternity
May. 11th, 2013 09:39 pm (UTC)
Btw while you shouldn't have to pay for the artist's mistakes, if you get really stuck with this, there is a possible solution of offering a nominal amount towards getting them corrected (i.e 4 x $5= $20). I don't like the idea for giving artist money after demanding the way they did but it might smooth the way to getting the icons corrected so you can actually use them.
It's one possible option, though not the best one.
(no subject) - toscaterrier - May. 11th, 2013 11:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rimpala - May. 12th, 2013 04:08 am (UTC) - Expand
dragontripmon
May. 11th, 2013 09:33 pm (UTC)
You know from the second link contains his paypal address shouldn't that be censored. Though something about this really bothers me considering I like to see both sides of the story.
kayla_la
May. 11th, 2013 09:37 pm (UTC)
You're right. OP, if you could please edit Bae's personal paypal out of that screenshot, we'd appreciate it. Not sure how I missed that.
(no subject) - tealmoonxiv - May. 11th, 2013 10:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
zippiner
May. 11th, 2013 09:35 pm (UTC)
While I think Bae should fix the major animation errors (Ear layering behind the horn, interior of wing for example) I have to agree with him on the minor edits you need.

You're expecting incredibly detailed work in an icon that is going to be compressed to a small size in the end. More detail than is going to show, or people are even going to notice.

-
Bae should be fixing the major issues, yes. However I feel as if you should not be nitpicking on smaller details that will not show up well after the icon size is reduced.
That being said, Bae SHOULD have a TOS that states how many edits he will make before he begins charging.

While I agree that with the time it is taking and the edits he should be getting more money, he shot himself in the foot for not having a TOS.
wuvvumsoc
May. 11th, 2013 09:38 pm (UTC)
Some of them might not be able to show but I think the dots along the eyes might?

I definitely make sure to tell my customers if I am making something small and animated then something like markings or tattoos probably won't show up.

Also flash seems to be ridiculous with compression and filesizes when making gifs. I started using GIMP2 which has worked out better for me.
(no subject) - zippiner - May. 12th, 2013 04:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rimpala - May. 12th, 2013 04:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ext_1797244 - May. 12th, 2013 05:34 am (UTC) - Expand
timelapsedecay
May. 11th, 2013 10:06 pm (UTC)
Agreeing with zippiner- the icons are not professional standard, and $20 for an icon animated to that degree isn't much
However like it was said above your character is VERY detailed and icons are typically not something that can hold a lot of detail and still look nice
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(no subject) - dinogrrl - May. 12th, 2013 03:06 am (UTC) - Expand
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toscaterrier
May. 11th, 2013 11:00 pm (UTC)
I think the artist should definitely have fixed the obvious animation issues, such as the horn/ear swap and the wing losing a frame.

However, your character is INCREDIBLY detailed. I agree with the artist that you were expecting far too many details to be included in an icon of such a small filesize. Every single marking adds up when you're animating, and the artist's icon style is very 'cartoony' and simplistic.

I can't find the artist's TOS anywhere. Did you ever look at one before commissioning them? Because yes, they agreed to the price beforehand, but if you didn't make an agreement through their TOS I don't think it's beyond their right to charge more for multiple nitpicky changes.
hellebore
May. 12th, 2013 02:00 am (UTC)
Must agree, especially on the artist not having a TOS, I think they can kinda call the shots here on what they want to do. A TOS is used to protect both artist and client. Tricky situation.
negawolfie
May. 12th, 2013 02:01 am (UTC)
I'm sorry to say but Shizi calling Bae an asshole on a skype call and telling people in stream not to commission him is wrong. You also told streamers not to commission artists at all if they do not have a TOS, plus you continue to PUBLICLY shame Bae in front of streamers and say how he purposely make these mistakes to charge people.

I may not have the proof needed for this but from what I heard while being in Nataya's stream I am simply disgusted and I feel that everyone should hear Bae's side of the story before passing a judgement.
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dilario
May. 12th, 2013 02:14 am (UTC)
I personally think this is looking more like a beware on you rather than the artist. They already had extremely cheap prices and tried to tell you numerous times how difficult it would be to meet your expectations. Echoing all the other commenters I agree they should fix the major issues, but as a commissioner you were very pushy and aggressive. Had I been in the artist's place, I'd feel backed into a corner as well.
nxcritter
May. 12th, 2013 02:52 am (UTC)
With my personal experiences with the OP as a commissioner I would have to agree.
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(no subject) - xubunturambles - May. 14th, 2013 02:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
nxcritter
May. 12th, 2013 02:43 am (UTC)
I agree that the Price should raised for future commissions regarding bea.
If you look on the FA page of the OP Bea has fixed the icons in question, at least enough to where the op uses them.

On a side note Bea should make a TOS. I think that would solve this issue for further incidences.

On personal note, having done commissions for this person befor I don't blame bae for getting frustrated and requesting more money. I think we maybe missing some of this story but this just my personal thought on the subject with my past experience with this commissioner.

rimpala
May. 12th, 2013 04:44 am (UTC)
In case Bea is reading this post:
"On a side note Bea should make a TOS. I think that would solve this issue for further incidences. "

THIS
zackfig
May. 12th, 2013 02:46 am (UTC)
While I agree that the artist commissioned should fix some of the errors.

1. like others have said, your character is too detailed to be properly rendered in such a small place.
2. the way you handled this, plus the dirty laundry people have found on you seem to indicate that the one with the biggest red flag is not the artist, but you.
nxcritter
May. 12th, 2013 02:53 am (UTC)
you have no idea how bright that red is, it's blinding.

This will have to wait for the post soon to come tho.
(no subject) - zackfig - May. 12th, 2013 02:56 am (UTC) - Expand
rimpala
May. 12th, 2013 03:56 am (UTC)
"you can see here that he requires the reffernaces so he can evuate his prices"

Not sure if this is even listed as a negative or anything, but it seems like a sound business practice to me. Especially for animation, animation tends to lend itself better to simple character designs. And when I mean simple I mean simpler then most fursonas, including some of mine!
duster
May. 12th, 2013 04:02 am (UTC)
I agree. Artists can charge based on character complexity. I'm an icon artist and I've always charged extra forr complicated characters. It's not an insult to the character creator; time is money. Therefore if an artist spends more time on your character they should quote you for more money.

However charging after the fact without a ToS saying you will is bad practice.
(no subject) - rimpala - May. 12th, 2013 04:27 am (UTC) - Expand
rimpala
May. 12th, 2013 04:23 am (UTC)
I don't even know if this helps but...
Ok I expressed this before, but in the name of simple peace-keeping, the larger animation issues stick out more then the details. I can see why the mistakes may have been made - concentrating on the details over the form causes artists to make glaring obvious mistakes!

What's done is done, but if there is anything to be salvaged from this, I believe that fixing the issues with the disappearing wings, and the ear/horn swaps should be concentrated on first, then details can come second. Settling down and concentrating on fixing the form of the character and getting to the details afterwards might save a little headache. I know for a fact that Flash easier to work with this way.
panderpsocks
May. 12th, 2013 04:28 am (UTC)
Re: I don't even know if this helps but...
That's all fine and dandy, but as you can see from her notes, she wants everything SPOT ON. Going so far as to say "She's missing 4 spots here" and "there's a stray red dot there" and "Her tongue is forked, not curved". I think the artist would have been a lot more eager to fix things if it were "The wing is glitching here" or "The horn is messed up".
Re: I don't even know if this helps but... - rimpala - May. 12th, 2013 04:31 am (UTC) - Expand
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