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Advice Post Repost: jalmu

While we do not usually repost for advice posts, the content of this particular post was actually of value, since what is and/or is not okay in a ToS is often a big question in artists_beware. Therefore, the locked down post by jalmu is being reposted in full, with screencaps of the comments as well.

For disrespecting the rules and community as a whole, jalmu has been permabanned.

Update 12/24/12: We are aware that jalmu has deleted the post. Nothing changes. This repost remains, a defaced copy of the post remains on DreamWidth, and we have a screencap of the post forthcoming.


Second client this year that I have had harass me for money back and I feel I should ask for some advice from you guys before getting law enforcement involved as this is a local issue that has been doing on for months now.
This guy I feel posed to be a friend after receiving his first piece of art from me. After that he bought a badge then I traded him a reference sheet for a ride to a local convention...
After the con things where fine until July rolled around after his relationship was already going on for a month he wanted something for his mate's birthday and his mate also wanted one from me as well.
This one harassed me to finish the art he ordered back on July 1st a week later I was rushed to the E.R.
I was sick for 2 weeks , 1 week of rushing to the hospital and the next week I was sent to my mothers to get rest and recover. With out my art supply's I wasn't able to do any commissions.
When I got back I was working on some Pay-What-You-Want commissions to get money for a few refunds that where requested and breaking doctors orders.
Not long afterwards I was asked for some work in progress sketches or further in the process from him and his girlfriend. I got onto it as soon as could, still feeling sick I did my best to keep up with everyone's demands along with trying to make some income and keep up with everything.
After sending a sketch to each of them I was asked for a refund from both equaling 150.00.
His girlfriend was quiet and it was a smooth refund, barely had contact after that but her boyfriend changes his mind and wants the art, then changes his mind again and wants the refund. From that point on he keeps going back and forth with nasty and rude remarks until September with a final message stating can I have my money by so and so date. Being more angry I blocked him.

Then he also went and started attacking someone I been trying to teach business and art techniques With old drama that her and I had at a convention simple mix up that he brought back up along with saying her boy friend was drinking everyone's booze at the con meanwhile it was my mates booze he asked first so he had no rights to bring up something like this and also mentioned her age told her not to act older then what she actually is. This attack I feel was supposed to set off some sort of time bomb between the two of us but it hasn't as she bought it up to me and we already had that issue resolved between each other.
My Terms of Service state I will not accept any form of harassment which cancels out any chances of refunding to keep people like this away but I don't know if this is frowned upon or not. It obviously didn't work for this guy, then again I do not believe he read my T.O.S..
He has already gotten a good 100% of the art he asked for except one piece which he canceled to get a refund. I was sick and I have a valid reason why it wasn't done on time. As I am a nice artist I do try my best to do the project even if I'm running late, I will make up for it in some way, shape or form.

Also he sent a text message to my mate with a threat towards me saying that if I do not pay him the 100.00 "refund" he will continue to slander my name in the local area.
From all the math I have done this past week with several friends and family involved I technically do not owe him any thing for the items he has gotten and have not been paid for.
Most I can give back is 50 bucks but that's if I keep all discounts and gift art off the total with out all the discounts and such he would owe me $260.00 with out me giving him a cent back if I did follow through with the $100 refund he would owe me $360.00.
This is starting to become a large issue but I have been trying my best to keep my cool about it all and trying to stay with in all legal rights.
In the end of all this my question is should I 'Buyer Beware' him for the future would personally rather not have anyone have to deal with any of this like I have been.
Slandering, black mailing and trying to get "All the things" isnt how things work in the real world and for his age he should know better.


Screencaps of the comments
(they are not in order and comment chains are broken up. I'm sorry but its just how LJ/gmail messes things up.)
http://kimeiko.net/images/misc/A_B/jalmucommentcaps1.png
http://kimeiko.net/images/misc/A_B/jalmucommentcaps2.png
http://kimeiko.net/images/misc/A_B/jalmucommentcaps3.png
http://kimeiko.net/images/misc/A_B/jalmucommentcaps4.png
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 71 comments — Leave a comment )
otherscape
Dec. 23rd, 2012 06:20 am (UTC)
I have it in my TOS draft that if a customer harasses me they receive one warning, a clear "stop this specific behavior or the commission will be cancelled" statement. If they keep harassing me I will cancel the commission and they will only receive a partial refund, which would be whatever amount I did not finish. Is that kind of thing okay? The reason I put that in there was because I don't want to be taken advantage of or screwed out of income.

My other question is whether or not I give the harassing client the unfinished artwork?
amocin
Dec. 23rd, 2012 06:32 am (UTC)
I offer a full refund if the work is not started, a 50% if it is inked, and none if I started coloring, as generally thats when you can consider the picture done in a few hours. I would say that if you need to cancel at any time with the client, and refund them, they should also get whatever work you have completed, as that much has been paid for.
(no subject) - celarania - Dec. 27th, 2012 07:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - luxshine - Dec. 29th, 2012 04:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Dec. 29th, 2012 04:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - amocin - Jan. 1st, 2013 03:47 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Dec. 23rd, 2012 07:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sigilgoat - Dec. 23rd, 2012 07:44 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wolf_goat - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
ducttapeninja
Dec. 23rd, 2012 06:32 am (UTC)
I'm really disappointed that Jalmu deleted/disabled the comments on that post. And that passive-aggressive edit at the end as well... :/ Honestly, I think this definitely turned out to be more of a beware on her part than the person she wanted "advice" about-- At the very least I'm much more likely to avoid Jalmu than the commissioner.

She asked for advice, she got it, it wasn't what she wanted, so she decided to claim everyone was being "negative/aggressive" and shut everything down?

Her edit doesn't make much sense to me, either-- Originally the harassment had started after the commission was taken, but now she's saying the harassment was going on "long before the commission was taken"? What was she doing taking a commission from someone who was supposedly harassing her for a long time beforehand in the first place? :/

Thanks for reposting this, I hadn't even realized she'd shut down the comments on the last one. I guess she didn't like being told that she was essentially stealing the customer's money, or something.
teahound
Dec. 23rd, 2012 08:53 am (UTC)
I had some issues when I commissioned her in the past so sadly I'm not terribly surprised. :T She can be rather tough to work with. It was so long ago I don't have a lot of the info so I can't post a beware, though.
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - tyrano_tiggs - Dec. 23rd, 2012 08:58 am (UTC) - Expand
thaily
Dec. 23rd, 2012 09:40 am (UTC)
It struck me as ironic because I recently a journal about warning signs to keep you from getting scammed maybe and it included "Unreliable artists might include in their TOS that the customer can forfeit their payment by annoying the artist.". When I read Jamlu's post I just went "huh" as it reminded me of the post, and then she proved to be unreliable (at least to me).
greenreaper
Dec. 23rd, 2012 10:47 am (UTC)
Reposts like these are copyright violations in and of themselves, and as such violate LiveJournal policy (as does ab_archive). The initial poster may file a DMCA takedown request to remove this post, and repeated such posts may cause artists_beware to be sanctioned. A better approach might be to combine a summary of the post with the screencaps of the comments of those who agree to have their comments duplicated. Facts are not subject to copyright, just their form of expression.

Edited at 2012-12-23 10:51 am (UTC)
ansitru
Dec. 23rd, 2012 10:57 am (UTC)
I don't see how DMCA would apply to a text-post they willingly submitted here in the first place.
(no subject) - greenreaper - Dec. 23rd, 2012 11:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - armaina - Dec. 23rd, 2012 01:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - greenreaper - Dec. 23rd, 2012 01:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - armaina - Dec. 23rd, 2012 01:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - greenreaper - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - armaina - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - greenreaper - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - greenreaper - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - greenreaper - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thistlewolf - Dec. 23rd, 2012 03:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 23rd, 2012 03:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kadaria - Dec. 23rd, 2012 04:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ansitru - Dec. 23rd, 2012 05:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ducttapeninja - Dec. 23rd, 2012 05:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Dec. 23rd, 2012 09:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
celestinaketzia
Dec. 23rd, 2012 12:25 pm (UTC)
Good to see she's unlocked the original post. (Of course, now it's impossible for me to read with my limited vision.)
radcatastrophe
Dec. 23rd, 2012 01:43 pm (UTC)
Pretty sure that was done on purpose but I was surprised to see the mod post comment in my inbox this morning.

Though the whole thread above seems to be trying to get this post shut down or edited to how the OP sees the rundown of Jalmu's original post. Maybe A_B should have it's own site so it'd be easier to archive everything and not have users with mod like powers (freezing, locking, and hiding comments/posts) without them being able to reverse it.
(no subject) - thistlewolf - Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moljn - Dec. 23rd, 2012 03:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 23rd, 2012 03:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
funkicarus
Dec. 23rd, 2012 01:30 pm (UTC)
considering jalmu showed up to defend zardis in that contact caffeine debaucale a month ago, i had a feeling things might head in this direction.
onesteptwo
Dec. 23rd, 2012 06:15 pm (UTC)
I'm glad I wasn't the only person thinking that. When I made a comment about it in the original post in a "this is what she thinks is appropriate from a business stand point already", she flipped about me being "off topic".
cat_claw_fever
Dec. 23rd, 2012 02:49 pm (UTC)
I'm not surprised at all it's Jalmu. She's a member of our local community and she's not exactly an angel.. She has a tendency to gossip and spread some pretty false and inappropriate rumours. So, in a way, guess it came back to her in someway.
phoenixsrequiem
Dec. 23rd, 2012 04:33 pm (UTC)
Hey guys. If anyone wants the other side of the story, we are more than willing to oblige :) If there is interest, we can put a post up :)
oceandezignz
Dec. 23rd, 2012 04:38 pm (UTC)
You're the other party referenced in this advice post?
(no subject) - phoenixsrequiem - Dec. 23rd, 2012 06:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ansitru - Dec. 23rd, 2012 06:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Dec. 23rd, 2012 06:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - crazyhusky - Dec. 23rd, 2012 07:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kadaria - Dec. 23rd, 2012 07:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - crazyhusky - Dec. 23rd, 2012 08:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lackoflollies - Dec. 23rd, 2012 09:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - neolucky - Dec. 23rd, 2012 10:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kadaria - Dec. 24th, 2012 01:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thistlewolf - Dec. 23rd, 2012 08:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - venatorrooc - Dec. 23rd, 2012 08:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Dec. 23rd, 2012 11:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 24th, 2012 01:24 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lackoflollies - Dec. 23rd, 2012 09:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - pinstripedtiger - Dec. 23rd, 2012 09:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - phoenixsrequiem - Dec. 23rd, 2012 09:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mistresswolf - Dec. 23rd, 2012 10:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 23rd, 2012 10:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - phoenixsrequiem - Dec. 24th, 2012 02:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sigilgoat - Dec. 24th, 2012 03:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Dec. 24th, 2012 11:09 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - copper_curls - Dec. 24th, 2012 06:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - phoenixsrequiem - Dec. 24th, 2012 06:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
luxshine
Dec. 24th, 2012 06:51 am (UTC)
I don't know if you noticed, but it seems that the original post was deleted.
oceandezignz
Dec. 24th, 2012 11:08 am (UTC)
We saw. We expected it too. We have a legitimate screencap of it that'll go up as soon as I can get it.

Ahhh... to be 19 and selfish again, yeah?
(no subject) - copper_curls - Dec. 24th, 2012 06:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
teekchan
Dec. 27th, 2012 11:44 pm (UTC)
Now I know this is off topic, sort of. It's about a TOS, so it's semi relevant. I just didn't want to make a whole new post for one lil question.

My TOS is in my journal header, so a link to it is on every journal. When posting a commission journal is it fine to have it just in the header, or should I also post it in the journal itself?

For anyone wondering here's a screencap of how it looks.
http://gyazo.com/0551f9c68c83005b659397f60d0676de.png?1356651835
shukivengeance
Dec. 27th, 2012 11:48 pm (UTC)
Since the link is already there, I think a mention like "before commissioning me, be sure to read my ToS in the header as you will be bound to its terms" or something like that.
( 71 comments — Leave a comment )

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