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Commissioner Beware: Touya_Vulpes

WHO: I am an artist that goes by Ritz_Bitz on FA. I was commissioned by Touya_Vulpes on FA.

WHERE: During my livestream art session.

WHAT: I was livestreaming $10 shaded headshots done traditionally. People could have them laminated and mailed for $1 more. He was the first to order and got his art that night. 2 days later, on December 5th, I recieved an email that the funds were on hold and I needed to take action in the resolution center. I responded saying "He got his art that night, its intangible goods but he has the file already so I cannot offer a refund". Today, the 19th, I got an email saying the payment was reversed and given back to him. Turns out I'm not covered as a seller of goods unless the item is shipped, so he was able to make a claim he never recieved it and I lost my case because I couldn't ship this intangible good.

WHEN: Livestream took place on December 3rd and he recieved his art the same night.

PROOF:
Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket


EXPLAIN: When the hold was placed, I was confused but figured something wasnt verified with his account or such. I didn't contact him at this point, I answered the case in the resolution center and waited. Today I got an email that the payment was reversed, and I saw that the $10 had been sent back to him from my account. Upset and irritated, I noted him about it and he said "Oh I've been having issues with paypal for the past couple weeks. I don't know what it is." I told him he needed to resend the money or I was gonna delete the art and go through paypal for a resolution. He acted slightly irritated, saying "*sigh* fine just delete the art". I already completed the work, so obviously I wanted to be paid for it. I called paypal and spoke with their customer service.
It turns out he filed the claim that he never got what he paid for, and I had no defense with it being 'intangible goods' that I did not ship. This is why I lost the case.


I DID get my money back, however I am extremely displeased with the way the commissioner acted, trying to get his money AND have the art. He has been blacklisted now and I have changed my commission policy to having all the work I do shipped out so I can protect myself.



EDIT: this commissioner is now suspended from FA for doing this to a countless number of artists within the same 2 week span.
he is APPARENTLY working with paypal as of dec 30 but stopped replying to all comments/emails after that, so who knows.

It's official though: I'm no the only one this same thing has happened to.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 73 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 2
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oceandezignz
Dec. 20th, 2012 03:48 am (UTC)
Approved, but could you please either turn your screencaps into links or insert an LJ-cut into the body of your post?

Thank you.

Mod Note: Do not make "cut this plz" comments.
ritz_bitz25
Dec. 20th, 2012 04:08 am (UTC)
Can you tell me how? I'm still learning the site x3
(no subject) - ritz_bitz25 - Dec. 20th, 2012 04:09 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Dec. 20th, 2012 04:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritz_bitz25 - Dec. 20th, 2012 04:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kerstin_orion - Dec. 20th, 2012 04:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritz_bitz25 - Dec. 20th, 2012 04:23 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
celestinaketzia
Dec. 20th, 2012 04:06 am (UTC)
Oh wow, no. Thank you for this warning. I've blocked him.
copper_curls
Dec. 20th, 2012 04:09 am (UTC)
Thank you for the warning; definitely blocking him.
lackoflollies
Dec. 20th, 2012 04:25 am (UTC)
Blocked. I don't understand why people think this is acceptable behavior, let alone lie about it. I'm glad FA and AB are working together now, because if this pattern continues his membership should probably be revoked.
onesteptwo
Dec. 20th, 2012 04:35 am (UTC)
...I'm kind of confused how it's intangible goods? You said you were doing them traditionally. If you took a picture of what you drew and showed it to them with a link that he gave you, shouldn't that be tangible? And if you posted a journal about how they would only be shipped for the extra buck, linked that.
ritz_bitz25
Dec. 20th, 2012 04:37 am (UTC)
Art is considered intangible cause you can't physically hold it. In this case, all he got was a file. He did not want it to be sent to him so he didn't pay for shipping.

The info about $1 more was in my stream submission, which I deleted after the stream ended :c
(no subject) - onesteptwo - Dec. 20th, 2012 05:08 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritz_bitz25 - Dec. 20th, 2012 05:16 am (UTC) - Expand
snapcat
Dec. 20th, 2012 05:26 am (UTC)
This is not a chargeback. There is information missing in the seller's account but from the looks of it, it is a failed bank payment. It looks like the artist received an instant payment then the payment was reversed 2 days later. To me it looks like insufficient funds on the buyer's end. There is no way to file a chargeback 2 days after a payment is made. Paypal will not allow it. I worked for PayPal for 3 years in the fraud department so I know what I am talking about.
If there was actually a case with a case number, she could have taken a screen shot of the resolution center with the case ID number which would clearly show if it was a Dispute or a Chargeback. Since this was not done, thats why I can only deduce that it was insufficient funds on the buyer's end.
blaze_ignitus
Dec. 20th, 2012 05:58 am (UTC)
There's a very significant caveat to that though: the OP was informed by PayPal that the person filed a claim that he never received the goods and thus a reversal was made. This was not a case of insufficient funds. This was a deliberate attempt to commit fraud against the OP. The commissioner lied to PayPal stating they never received goods when they did. They filed a claim. The commissioner was greedy, wanting both the art and money.

To quote Gene Wilder: "it's all there, black and white, clear as crystal!"
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 11:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - blaze_ignitus - Dec. 20th, 2012 01:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Dec. 20th, 2012 06:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lackoflollies - Dec. 20th, 2012 06:10 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 11:53 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 20th, 2012 11:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 11:54 am (UTC) - Expand
tealmoonxiv
Dec. 20th, 2012 05:36 am (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't art be covered if you marked "services" rather than "goods"? (in the case of digital or un-shipped art)
ashleyvsdestiny
Dec. 20th, 2012 06:17 am (UTC)
Yeah, I don't get how it's 'intangable'. It's not like PayPay is never used to pay for SERVICES as well as goods. I'm really puzzled how this 'intangable' thing works and no one on AB has ever reported issues like that.
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Dec. 20th, 2012 06:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritsukaao - Dec. 20th, 2012 07:54 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lackoflollies - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritsukaao - Dec. 20th, 2012 09:08 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 12:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritsukaao - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritsukaao - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritsukaao - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ljmydayaway - Dec. 20th, 2012 11:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 21st, 2012 12:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Dec. 21st, 2012 12:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 11:56 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritsukaao - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ritsukaao - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 20th, 2012 08:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ljmydayaway - Dec. 21st, 2012 12:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snapcat - Dec. 21st, 2012 12:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Dec. 21st, 2012 12:05 am (UTC) - Expand
thaily
Dec. 20th, 2012 11:20 am (UTC)
Le blocked.

Not sure why he said he wasn't commissioning after you, unless he meant you specifically? Because he has plenty of commissioned work in his gallery and I doubt he'll never get another piece ever again. Makes me wonder how much of that is paid for though.
ritz_bitz25
Jan. 11th, 2013 11:00 am (UTC)
sorry for the late reply.

I told him "you shouldn't be buying art from people if you already know your account 'has an issue'" and he said basically "I'm not buying art from anyone else either until i figure this out" yet there were transactions timestamped after mine of him buying more art.
lem0ntrees
Dec. 20th, 2012 02:33 pm (UTC)
I've always paid for non-shipped art as Services instead of Goods to avoid problems like this.
amocin
Dec. 20th, 2012 02:55 pm (UTC)
Pretty much this. If its not marked as Services, then it asks me to ship something, and so the commissioner can always say that it was never shipped... with Digital art... not much to ship there.

So an easy way to avoid this mess is to always request that they mark it as Services. If you get their payment and there is a ship request next to it in PP, refund it and ask them to do it again properly.
(no subject) - lem0ntrees - Dec. 20th, 2012 03:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thistlewolf - Dec. 20th, 2012 03:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stormrunner1981 - Dec. 21st, 2012 12:46 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - centauress - Dec. 30th, 2012 06:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
Draekaar Draconigenae
Dec. 20th, 2012 04:45 pm (UTC)
I call bull on being unable to prove shipment. If you sent it by email, you have proof that you sent it by screen-capping the email. Manymanymanymany things are transacted through paypal that are "intangible goods", any groupon for example, or a steam game. Are they going to tell steam that they have no way of proving that the game was sent to the user? of course not, they have transfer logs, and it's a huge fsking company.

If you ask me, art shouldn't be an exception. I could go to paypal right now and say I didn't receive $25 in steam money the other day when I paid for it. Or, someone could say they didn't receive their farmville cash on facebook. I'm sorry, but they gave you a completely stupid reply.
sushidragon
Dec. 20th, 2012 08:58 pm (UTC)
A few years ago I was on the losing end of a chargeback despite providing screenshots of communication from the buyer that they received the (digital) item and were happy with it. I didn't have an all-powerful tracking number and so according to them I had no proof the item had been sent. I then received more messages from the buyer gloating that they had received the item and their money back. It was infuriating.
(no subject) - mistresswolf - Dec. 20th, 2012 09:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
lainmokoto
Dec. 20th, 2012 05:48 pm (UTC)
Blocked, thank you for the heads up!
shinmaxwell
Dec. 20th, 2012 09:42 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up..blocked!
oceandezignz
Dec. 20th, 2012 09:50 pm (UTC)
Okay the Paypal shenanigans aside,

A) Buyer still seemed flippant over this as the OP had approach them for an explanation.

B) Everyone in this community is very familiar with the excuse of "issues with paypal" and its usually code for "scammer".
bazeelphooka
Dec. 20th, 2012 10:30 pm (UTC)
We are taking steps to investigate this matter on Fur Affinity. I cannot give details, but I assure you I will do what I can to ensure this is not a habit with the user.
(no subject) - bazeelphooka - Dec. 20th, 2012 10:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
blaze_ignitus
Dec. 20th, 2012 11:11 pm (UTC)
OP, you stated "it turns out he filed the claim that he never got what he paid for." Do you have any screenshots of Paypal informing you that the commissioner filed a claim stating as such? This would cement your argument without question
scribdoodles
Dec. 22nd, 2012 11:24 pm (UTC)
She said she called them about the issue and they told her that he filed the charge back. There isn't a screenshot of this lol
(no subject) - ritz_bitz25 - Jan. 11th, 2013 11:01 am (UTC) - Expand
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