WHAT: hree (3) commissions, total worth $285 - also offered a free full body colored sketch, to be worked on in december as by then, her workload wouldn't be as much.
WHEN: start of March this year - ongoing now.
SCREENCAPS OF AMOUNT OF EMAILS SENT/RECEIVED, 2 PAGES (+ 2-3 more emails on page 3, not screencapped, but you get the idea!) - sorry how blurry they look. :( I know next to nothing about editing images or screencaps online... I had to zoom out on my browser to get these screens, and this is the result.
EXPLAIN This is pretty much a re-cap of my comment that I left yesterday on the previous AB post regarding pirate-cashoo. I have added some screencaps of my own... one of the paypal statements, and two of mine and her's email correspondence... where you'll notice how regularly it happens that i must email her more than once for an update.
So... that's my "story". I've had the pleasure of commissioning a lot of amazing artists through the years... never, ever had this sort of trouble. I consider myself patient, tolerant and kind... but we all have our limits, right?
I've tried my best to make use of the lj-cut and linking images correctly... I'm no where near being good at this thing, so I apologize if I've jumbled everything up. Mods absolutely have my "ok" to adjust the post if it looks off or is taking up too much space, hahah.
ETA: Before I wrote this entry, I sent her an email. Simply telling her that this post was in the making and expressing my concern about several things. This is the message I sent...:
Summary: wes me (and a friend who is sharing a commission with me) $285 worth of art, the oldest piece since March 11th. Poor communication, endless promises, constant "troubles" on her end that cause delays... and yet she always has time to open for more commissions!
hi - I'm sorry it has come to this once more... but after chatting to several people, including a dear friend of mine who I just discovered you've owed a $140 hi-res image for 13 MONTHS... I'm making my own AB post. I wanted to let you know about it, and I encourage you to step forward and give us all an updated list of your backlog of commissions... it's extremely concerning to think you might owe thousands of dollars worth of art to people at this point
anyway, I highly suspect my AB post won't be the last... there's a swarm of people really disappointed and angry with you right now, so unfortunately I think my post and the one by graphix-goddess are only just the beginning. :/ I truly hope you can resolve all this, but in my case, I have no more patience. none, at all. I asked you 2 days ago on tumblr to give me an estimate of when to expect my commissions, and there has been no reply. once again, sorry.
Right after I submitted this post to AB, I checked my email... and, facepalm. Wall of text from her, and I still do not know how I'm supposed to even BEGIN replying to this...
Her email to me this morning...
What does AB mean? Also, if you could, please keep these things private...I've been doing my best, but it evidently isn't enough. I've been corresponding with those who have been displeased (and so far only 2-3 people seem to be), and for those who are unhappy with me, they should consult me personally. I don't bite...and I never get angry or defensive. I've lost friends because of my job and how much I work...it's pretty ridiculous. And it's exactly why I'm stopping my entire commission business next year. I've never had problems until this year, when people suddenly started thinking that I take too long to finish a commission.
It's unfair to start posting elsewhere and publicly when they haven't tried speaking with me and peacefully talking things out with me beforehand... I'm really not sure what I'm doing wrong exactly. I know my art is a wait, but I have absolutely no intention of ripping anyone off, and I compensate accordingly for those who have waited an unusually long time. And so far, I've never had a bad experience.
Also, I'm unsure as to what's wrong between you and I? We came to a really awesome, peaceful conclusion, and you said you had complete faith in me... I offered that promise to you when you were severely displeased with me in your e-mail to see if you would be alright with that in return for not making things public and taking serious action, and you said it was alright after seeing my reply, and you made no mention of the promise (correct me if I'm wrong). I think it's a matter of miscommunication or something...but from what I interpreted from your e-mail, you didn't find it necessary for me to go through with the promise I offered...so I figured it was alright. I've been working on your withstanding commissions throughout this past month, but I never thought there were any problems. I had a family visit from October 30 to November 13, so I haven't been able to get much work done within that time, nor have I gotten back to all of my e-mails.
Suddenly everyone's angry at me? I'm sorry, but it's completely unfair to be angry at me and not even talk to me about anything... I've been ridiculously busy since my parents visited, and I've been doing my best to get back to everyone while still getting solid hours of commissions done each day. I'm not on Tumblr every day of my life, and you can't be angry at me and assume things because I don't reply to you within your personal time limit...in the case with Tumblr it was 2 days.
I'm sorry, but I don't find the problem here, and you can't point fingers at me because I didn't get back to you in just two days. My art can be quite a wait, yes, but there are no scams and I am not intentionally ignoring anyone. I'm not the most professional and organized in comparison to many, but I kinda find this whole accusation unfair. Especially since you say that there are so many people angry with me? I was not aware of this at all. :/
I've waite years or a commission from an artist, and the shortest amount of time I waited for a commission was about 6 months. I personally have no issue with wait time (unless there was a specified deadline that both the artist and customer agreed to). Everyone has their own patience levels, it differs. I understand that.
I apologize that you have had an unexpected experience with me, but I have done nothing but my absolute best with the situation I have put myself in. I'm not angry, defensive, or immature. I fully intend to finish everything that I started, and I have done NOTHING to prove otherwise. Yes, it can be a bit of a wait, but I do my best to make it worth it and compensate...whether it be additional detail/work I put into the commissions, or do a free illustration after their commission(s) is finished.
I hope that we can rationally work things out in a mature manner...I seriously don't understand what's going on. :(
The only reply I can truly think of? A link to artists-beware, nothing more and nothing less. I've not replied yet, by the way. I just feel sick reading this.
NOVEMBER 21st 2012 EDIT
She has responded to my email from this morning... I warn you guys, it's not pretty.
Email I sent to her this morning...
as you've not addressed any of my concerns in my email to you, or the ones in the note on tumblr, I see no reason why I should address any of yours.
I've had enough. there are two posts about you here so far http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/ o take a moment to read through them and the comments and consider them.
I've no desire to communicate with you more than is necessary, from now on. I only want to know an exact date of when to expect my commissions, nothing more and nothing less.
thank you, and good luck sorting out this mess.
And the reply I just now received... I just threw up a little, I'm trembling, I'm so stressed... HOW can she be so blind, so twisted?! Apparently it is ME who is ruining her business! It's MY FAULT!!! HOW can she say this?! The email...
Um...I'm sorry, but I believe that I DID address your concerns. I've been working on your commissions, and I can send you WIP shots today. Now that I don't have any family taking up my time or space, I can finish them within the next two weeks or so, depending on how long they take (The biggest one you got with the city crumbling will surely take the longest, it's a good challenge). It's really no use being so worked up and having unnecessary anger...you're only hurting yourself and others in the long run. But, I'm sure you don't want to hear those sorts of things right now...my apologies.
The only other thing I really have to say is that I'd really rather not do any artwork for you ever again after these commissions. Ugh, and that hurts me to say that considering how much respect I've had for you for so long because of your kindness and patience over the time we've known each other. However, I can't handle unstable customers...one minute you have 100% faith in me, and the next you're extremely angry and trying to ruin my business...simply because I didn't reply to you fast enough and you're suddenly out of patience. That's not within my control.
I'm sorry...and in addition to being an empath, these things especially make me ridiculously stressed out, and I can't have business get personal. And I definitely can't bank on whether or not my customer might flip out for some reason I'm unaware of. I tell people that my art can be a long wait sometimes, and I've only had a COUPLE customers be so unhappy. Well, only a couple that have expressed their concern, because apparently TONS of my customers are pissed at me, according to you. I've never had a customer as full of rage as you though, I must admit...I don't think I've ever met anyone with such a rollercoaster of emotions in my entire life. So, I know my art has been "too much" of a wait for you, but we've kept in regular communication, I've made progress on your commissions, an I have done nothing wrong. know I'm not in control of the way others feel, but I know the truth. I'm sorry that you find my experience so inexplicably repulsive.
I'm sorry if I seem abrasive at all...and I truly don't mean to. I'm not angry. But...if I feel that I've been walked on, which I have in a lot of cases with my customers, I WILL stand up for myself until the very end. I never liked Artists Beware, because it simply seems like a punching bag for artists that some people dislike. Some artists legitimately scam, and that should be brought to attention...BUT for me to get trashed on because one of my customers is emotionally unstable is really trivial and especially unfair. The only thing "bad" about my business is that my art is potentially a long wait, but I keep in contact and compensate for a long wait in any way that I can. I wouldn't be surprised if you'll conveniently leave that important piece of information out in the BA article, though...
I know I seem unprofessional in some areas, but this whole thing with you is extremely childish... you fail to communicate with me, and shut me off completely suddenly. Please, don't tell me I'm unprofessional or irrational, because this is ridiculous. You won't even agree to have a civil conversation with me.
This entire situation is exactly why I'm putting my entire commission business to a stop next year. I'm done working my hardest, losing friends because of how much I work, and never going outside, only to be at the "mercy" of my customers and their mental stability. It' not business relationship. It all depends on how the customer "feels". If they're not unhappy for whatever reason, I receive all the repercussions
I'm ready to start working with adults, and get paid for what I'm worth. -- And on that note, the main reason why I'm in so much "art-debt" is because I get paid less than HALF of what I should for my commissions, or else they would seem too expensive. But...if I actually got paid $20-25 per hour, I wouldn't be in this mess at all, and I wouldn't have nearly as many people waiting as long as they have. It's a death cycle, having to pay bills but continuously having to take more commissions in order to pay them.
This situation has opened my eyes though, and I've really learned a lot. It's really unfortunate, because I do commissions because of my passion for doing art for people and sharing it with the world, but if people push me around, I'm going to look elsewhere...for people who DO want to work with me and treat me fairly. I don't take long at all to do artwork...I'm actually pretty fast, but it's the buildup of commissions that take long. It really sucks... but it is never due to laziness or anything personal.
I understand a wait can be concerning, but I've made the agreement to finish the commission, and I have shown NOTHING to make anyone think otherwise. I do have a list, but it needs to be updated...and I can send it to you once that's done. I have about 30 or so commissions waiting total, about half of them either almost finished or still in-progress. You're welcome.
I just... I give up. I'm a nervous wreck because of this girl... this CHILD who preaches about maturity. I'm falling behind with my studies because of this. I suffer from severe anxiety and the past few days and nights have been a NIGHTMARE. I hope to never, ever have to see or hear more of this FOOL ever again... pardon my harsh words, but she has POUNDED every last one of my buttons, not merely pressed them. I'm FURIOUS at this point. (edits made to this paragraph as per mod's request)
Edit November 23rd
Cashoo emailed me yesterday to apologize... To sum it up, she herself has been feeling mentally unstable and depressed, but most importantly she admits to her mistakes. She still talks about how she can't control the patience levels of her customers, though... :/ She can, however, if she just brushes up on communication and provides regular updates. I don't think she has looked at the new posts here about her, either... at least, that's what she said.
I replied to her just now... I needed some time to decide on what to say... and here is what I decided to say...
alright, listen... I'm not one to hold grudges, or stay angry. I'm extremely passive, I hate conflicts and drama and do everything to avoid such situations.
in this case, however, I was simply at a loss... and you know why, so no reason for me to repeat myself. I'm sorry to hear you've had it rough, but one of the basic rules of business is to not use your personal life as an excuse... and absolutely never lash out at your customers, who have done nothing wrong and are simply concerned and worried. your last email to me was, sorry to say, extremely rude and childish. just to make one point absolutely clear, you ARE working with adults. what do you think we are, 12 year olds running around with our parents' credit cards? no, absolutely not. I'm not going to scold you, however... I think you've learned your lesson at this point, and it's good that you admit your mistakes. I hope you can set things right again, I truly do, but what's done is done and in the case of the post over at AB, both mine and the one posted the day before by another person, those posts cannot be removed or edited to make everything "look alright" again, they can merely be updated, and I'm willing to do so as you provide wips an regular pdates.
no one here is trying to ruin your reputation or your business... that's your own doing, unfortunately. you are still very young, though, so people might be willing to look past that and forgive you, and in fact I'm sure most will. what I recommend you do is simply update the sites you use the most for getting commissions with an accurate list of what you owe and to who, and then simply update it as you finish each piece or make progress on a piece. this will give all your customers a peace of mind, and it will prove to them that you ARE indeed working on their commissions. also if you possibly can, don't take on more commission work. if you must get a part time job at a fast food chain or something to make ends meet, you absolutely should... as it will enable you to pay your bills and work on your backlog of commissions without adding more to it.
I am very sorry it had to come to this, believe me it was not easy for me to make the post on AB - but it had to be done, unfortunately. anyway, I'm not going to repeat myself. I'll simply say... if you haven't looked at my or the other person's posts on AB already, maybe it's best that you don't, at least not until you are feeling better and have made some progress with your backlog. people there are mostly just very disappointed in you... some are angry, of course, but for the most part they are just very disappointed. AB is maintained by nice, mature and fair people, this is not a place where people can go to flame other people, but merely a place to get support and advice, and that's what I needed, and that's what I got.
I will wait for wip's of my commissions, in fact I would appreciate regular wip's, however much or little work you've done on my pieces. you also promised me a free colored full body sketch, as well, and considering you've broken quite a few promises regarding when to expect wip's and such, I think you should at least try to stick to this promise.
take care - I do hope you are feeling better, and ready to start sorting out this whole mess in a manner that will calm your customers and help you rebuild your reputation.
I guess... the only thing to be done now is to wait, wait and see if she follows through and keeps up with regular updates and such. I'm worried her backlog may be much longer tha just 0 commissions though... I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Edit November 28th
Haven't heard back from her since I sent my email on the 23rd... I've sent 2 short messages since, just asking for the wip's she claimed she had for me in a previous message. am starting to suspect there are no further wip's, that it's just another lie. :'/ I'll keep you guys updated!
Edit November 29th
Stil ignoring me, but... she's opened for MORE COMMISSIONS at DA! This is just... Enraged, I am.
Edit November 30th
Finally got some wip's today! No work has been done on my oldest commission, though... I asked for a deadline for it, before Christmas. I won't be able to view this as "resolved" until all 3 commissions have been finished, though.
Edit December 6th
Well, she pulled a nice stunt in a comment on her own journal on DA, using my "mental instability" as a public excuse, trying to yet again make herself look like a victim. This was the last straw for me, and I've emailed her just now, asking for a partial refund... Here's my email I just sent:
hey, I wanted to suggest something... because to be perfectly honest, I'm not really all that excited about getting those last two commissions from you anymore. after dealing with you and seeing your true colors, your art has simply become anything but appealing to me, sorry to say.
so what I want to suggest is a partial refund; a percentage of what I paid you for the colored sketch comm ($70) and the 2-char full body hi-res comm ($185) - I would be content with getting just $185 back, and it wouldn't have to be right away or all at once, though I would request we decide on when payment(s) would be made to avoid further conflicts. thing is... I'm just so fed up with you, and the last straw was when you openly defended yourself in a comment on your journal on DA, using my "mental instability" in your defense, a stunt that has quite a lot of people even more angry with you now than before. no use running and hiding that comment, either, as myself and several others have it screen capped. :/
please answer promptly - honestly, even if you finish the commissions, there's no pleasure in it for me at this point... I do hope you understand.
Honestly? I'm expecting nothing more or less than yet another boo-hoo sob story as a reply. I feel I'm letting her off easy, though. Offering to take a refund, a partial one, and not all at once... so she won't have to draw anything more for the "mentally unstable" lady who has ruined her career. Just... ugh. Even if she were to complete the commissions... at this point, I'd still consider it wasted money, for (I hope) obvious reasons.
December 15th Edit
Well, finally an update. I emailed her on the 6th, you can see the message above here... and she replied the day after, with the usual wall-of-sob, but also agreed that if a partial refund is what I really wanted, she'd try to work out a payment plan with me. I replied right away (this was on the 7th) and told her I'd give her until the end of the year to complete the commissions... because as usual, I'm a pushover, even when people don't deserve any patience or kindness at all. I told her I needed a prompt reply, and have sent her TWO reminders of my message since. It is now the 15th, 8 days since my message to her. So... it's safe to say she's ignoring me again, as I know she's been online. :/ At this point... I honestly consider the money lost, and am not expecting to see the completed commissions. If there are any updates, I'll let you guys know.
December 15th Second Edit
She replied - more sob stories, of course, but that's to be expected. I'm really annoyed now though, as she did not even hint at the status of my commissions, answer my question about whether she could complete it by the end of the year... She basically ignored my main concern, wrote a few paragraphs of sob, and left it at that. I replied right away, saying I only needed a simple "yes" or "no" answer about the commissions... Let's see if she manages to turn a simple yes or no into another wall-of-sob. :/ Here's the email...
Hey there...I am SO deeply sorry for not sending my reply to you as soon as you requested...I've been writing it in small increments throughout the past few days amidst commission work this week, and I've slept ONE night since Tuesday (although I overslept pretty hard). I've had to stay up multiple nights this week to be able attain enough time to finish a few half-paid commissions and gather enough funds to (hopefully) pay my rent on Monday...
It's been a relentlessly brutal week. I really hope your week has been far better than mine though, even amidst exams.... Nobody deserves to go through such dangerously high levels of stress, and it doesn't help to be alongside prolonged lack of sleep. But I can't afford to stop...there's way too much on the line. I know it won't last forever though, I just need to stay dedicated and focused and it will pay off...
But yeah, my main reply to you is practically an essayl! >_< hope that's alright...I've REALLY been trying to condense it still...I have a baaad tendency to get excessively wrapped up in details... But it's all important, relevant stuff...well I think, at least.
My perception of reality has been kinda skewed because of such a massive lack of sleep lately, so I've been rather disoriented, and as a result my judgements are potentially impaired until I get more sleep...which I am JUST about to do! And when I wake up and clear my head, I'll proofread and then send it to you. Is that alright
Again, I'm so sorry for the inconvenience. I'm doing my best to handle things one at a time. I hope you understand...thank you for being so calm with me lately, it's incredibly relieving and I really appreciate it..
You take care, as well~
To which I replied...
you really only need to tell me "yes" or "no" about whether you can complete my commissions by the end of the year, or if we need to start deciding on payment plans for the partial refund - that's my main concern. please don't worry about the other email - use the time for commission work instead. seriously.
Edit December 22nd
She took 12 days to reply, but she finally did on the 20th and she has promised to have one of my commissions done by the end of the year! Fingers crossed... As for the last of the commissions, I've asked to see it finished in January. No reply yet, but we'll see. I'll update this thread accordingly.
January 4th 2013 EDIT
The commission since March has FINALLY been completed, 4 days after the given (and promised) deadline. 2 down, 1 to go! I've given a strict deadline of end of January, and do hope it will be honored. :/
January 29th 2013 EDIT
Pirate-Cashoo is ignoring me again. I've sent her a couple of emails, but nothing. I know she's working on art, too... but I don't believe my piece is one them. I mentioned to her on several occasions that I expected my final commission to be completed by the end of this month. At this point... all I'm expecting is another broken promise to add to her already long trail of lies.
March 1st 2013 EDIT
Another edit for the sake of updating... although there's nothing to update. I've not heard a single word from cashoo. I am too busy with school and personal issues to keep emailing her, I just hope she will contact me soon with an update, or best of all, the last commission finished.