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Who: Rabbit Valley - Andrew Rabbit

Where: http://www.rabbitvalley.com/

What: We were working with Rabbit Valley to get a printed copy of our Adult Webcomic.

When: July 16 2012 - Nov 16 2012

Proof: Screen shots will be posted in the order of Explanation.

Explain: My husband has been handling all of the communication for this, even though some emails state my name, and some his, its all him, so there should have been no miscommunication between the two. I am posting on his behalf though, because he is really just assisting me in dealing with the print job while I work on the art and all the other stuff.

It starts off pretty normal, we contact Rabbit Valley and get contacted back by Andrew and there is back and forth on quotes for the print, as well as what kind of format he would need the comic in for their printers.

Here is the screen shot of our talks in the first round of emails. I have put red points next to the emails that I will explain here. If I should expand some, please let me know.

Link To first round of emails

AUG 17: We have ironed out all details by  this point and Andrew asks us to send him an email on Monday (Aug 20th) to remind him to send out our sample comic.

SEP 1st: We contact him asking for an update on the printed sample and he told us we should have gotten it in the mail. In a previous email he stated it would be sent to him first, and then to us, we were never alerted that he got it. We were told it should have been sent out a week ago, and to keep a look out for it.

Sep 3rd: Are told he will call the printer in the morning for information. Two days later we ask him for news, and was told he left them a message. We wait another day before asking if he heard anything back yet. We are told that the printer may be avoiding him.

Sept 10th and 12th: We ask for another update and are told that Andrew will no longer use his current printing company and is moving to a different printer. There is no mention of what happened to this printed copy that was sent... maybe it got lost... maybe it never got sent.

Sept 17th: Andrew tells us he found another printer who is printing us up a copy that day and he will send us a tracking number within a few hours.

Sept 18th: We ask for another update and are told that the printer wants us to change our format for the comic so it will fit their printing needs. We get the edits their printer needed done and sent out on Sept 21.

I already felt there were warning signs at this point that maybe we should end our side of things with this guy, but our options for printers were very limited with the nature of our book. However, at this point I have a bad feeling with the sudden drop of a printer company that supposedly sent us out a sample comic, and then telling us that the new printer was already printing and ready to ship in a few hours, only for issues to come up the next day where a package never got shipped.

Between Sept 21st and Oct 2nd the emails are just discussing payment options, print options, and quotes of prices.

Now here is where the fun really begins.

Link to the Second Round

OCT 5nd: The printed copy comes in the mail and there are many issues we have with it, mostly to do with the colors not coming out as they should, and the pages being cut off in areas that they shouldnt have been.

We inform Andrew of these issues and work with him to get them fixed. We send out new formats on the same day of Oct 5th.

Oct 10th: Ask for update on new sample. Are told he sent them out to the printer.

Oct 12th-15th: Please excuse the ancyness of constantly asking for updates. At this point we both feel that if we dont contact Andrew first, we are not going to get contacted, and this is already past the day we wanted to have this printed up, but that may be our bad for not understanding how long prints normally take. At this point we are three months into this without having a solid print.

OCT 17th: were told an updated printed copy will be sent out the following day.

Oct 24th & 26th: We ask for another update on if the copy was sent out. We are told that the printer was going to ship out this sample "This week" rather then last week.

OCT 30th: Were told about a printed copy being sent to Andrew, and then he would send it to us.

The Last Round of emails

Nov 5th & 6th: We ask for another update as we have not heard if he got the sample, and nor have we. We're told Andrew would email the printer and find out what was going on.

Nov 12th: We ask for another update, and are told that Andrew is just getting back from a trip, and will call them that day.

Nov 16th: After we contact him, yet again for an update on the printed copy, he writes us back to tell us that he contacted his printer, and they said that they could not do the print job and that he was dropping us as a client. He also states that he told us he would be out of town that entire time, when his previous email said he was just getting back into town on the day that he said he left..

Shortly after this he contacts us again telling us that the printer could not get the colors out properly, and that he is ending our transaction. No money was ever exchanged but a good four months of our time was spend on this...

Now... Please keep in mind the times he told us a new printed copy would be sent to us, and how he contacted the printer asking for updates...

After his last email, my husband dug up the printers email from a time we had been CCed on an email. He took the liberty to contact the printer and ask them what we could do to resolve the issues with the print, and hopefully cut out the middle man and get us a printed copy of the comic.

What transpired here sent us both into a fit of rage that thankfully remained contained within our household.

Emails From the Printer

Yes... From Oct 5th, those files, they were never sent to the printer. Those samples that should have been printed and sent to him, never really existed seeing as he never sent out the new files. So now we are working directly with the printer to hopefully get the comic printed up, and have cut out the middle man Andrew who seemed to jerk our chain for a good long time.

New Email from Printer

Update: From what it seems like now, the printer wrote us again after looking into the issue. So it would seem that RV did get the second sample, and just never informed us about it, and may have told the printer that he was working on an extra proof on his end to resolve the issues with the print, rather then having us try to fix it.

The worst part about this... is I dont even know why this happened. Was it that we pestered for too many updates? Was it because we wanted a very low quantity of books? I have really no idea..

Update 2 - Dec 3rd: We recieved the new sample from the printer, which was using the same file we sent to Andrew. The colors are perfect so I really have no idea why we were told the colors were still too dark. We have put in our full order for the books.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


( 24 comments — Leave a comment )
Nov. 19th, 2012 05:34 pm (UTC)
It's not often that we accept bewares on failed transactions when no money has been exchanged but I feel that the poor service you received is a valid beware against this company. You were strung along for months and then ultimately lied to when he said that the second sample was no good and placed the blame on the printer, when he had not even sent them anything. There is absolutely no excuse for such blatant fabrication.
Nov. 19th, 2012 05:48 pm (UTC)
Thats pretty much my problem here, its the wasting months of our time and lying to us. If he did not want to do it, he could have said so, or if asking for additional samples cost money, we would have gladly paid the price until the color issues were resolved.
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 19th, 2012 07:55 pm (UTC)
The print company stated that they hadn't heard from you since sometime in October, never got the 2nd round of fixed artwork ect and now it seems like OP is working through them now to get things moving much more quickly. I'm curious as to why they were able to get things moving much faster and you were unable to?

I someday will be looking into this very thing and to be honest, I honestly don't think I would want a middle man helping me for just these reasons. The artist obviously had promised comics to people and had deadlines of their own, and the lack of communication and updates on your part is nothing but note wary and bad management with a client.

My question is, why did it take you months to do something they were able to start achieving on their own in a much shorter time?

Not to sound brash, I'm just honestly curious.
Nov. 19th, 2012 06:38 pm (UTC)
The "Emails from the printer" image link is broken, you have an additional "http//" after the required "http://".
Nov. 19th, 2012 06:39 pm (UTC)
Also sorry if I sound a bit jerkish, I'm just trying to help ^^;
Nov. 19th, 2012 06:43 pm (UTC)
Its NP, it should be fixed now.
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 19th, 2012 08:30 pm (UTC)
It's nice to see that you're posting here, although it seems more like you're trying to make yourself look better than actually apologize to the client that you strung along. There isn't anything resembling a 'sorry' anywhere in there.

So, one simple question. Why did you feel that it was acceptable business practice to lie about what had been done?
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 19th, 2012 08:42 pm (UTC)
You haven't answered my question. Why did you feel that lying was an acceptable way to handle the situation?
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 19th, 2012 09:00 pm (UTC)
The printer stated that the revised files were never received. You stated that you had sent them, and that they had sent you a copy of the new print. These are obviously not both true, so unless your claim is that the printer is lying in this instance, I would like to know how your statement is not, in your "point of view," a lie.
Nov. 20th, 2012 02:57 am (UTC)
There isn't anything resembling a 'sorry' anywhere in there.

Eh, right at the second paragraph "I again apologize that we were not able to do the job. "
Looks like an "I'm sorry" to me" without any "buts" even.

Edited at 2012-11-20 02:58 am (UTC)
Nov. 20th, 2012 04:59 am (UTC)
I would like to add, even though there was a lot of miscommunication and not keeping up proper communication, he has said he was sorry and has remained professional despite the issues I have listed above, and owned up to the issues.
Nov. 19th, 2012 08:49 pm (UTC)
Is there a reason why you're not addressing the part where the printing company says they never got the new files?

It's a rather big deal that the two stories here don't match up.

You say that you sent them the new files which were sent to you on October 5th, and that the printing company were unable to work with it. Their side is that they never received any updates from you. If they didn't get it, how could they have told you that "their printer could not get the colors out properly" which is what you claim?

In case you missed that exchange, it takes place here. http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p204/amocin/Tom01.png

I'm very interested in your response, as it's clear that one party is being dishonest here.
Nov. 19th, 2012 09:54 pm (UTC)
It seems this might have been a miscommunication now, as I got an email from the printer stating that they did in fact send out a second proof to them that Andrew rejected it because the colors were still too dark.

So This is maybe more of that Andrew did send it, didnt like it, and told them he would edit it to fix it but did not inform us of this change, or that he got this second sample and didnt like how it looked.
Nov. 19th, 2012 07:46 pm (UTC)
Poor business management is about all I can say there. Attempting to keep a client, dragging them on and then finally getting so fed up with them nagging you because of the lack of communication is just.. procrastination honestly.

I can't really think of better terms for this. But I will definitely be keeping my business as far away from them whenever I decide for a print up.

I'm glad from what it sounds like, you were able to get the ball rolling with the print company though. Beware well warranted.

edited for grammer

Edited at 2012-11-19 07:47 pm (UTC)
Nov. 19th, 2012 09:06 pm (UTC)
Was wary about giving them my business before, as I am no fan of middlemen in my print work...but certainly will not be giving them any business now. A lie is a lie regardless of circumstance, it's a flat out lie. You were told the files were sent, and they never were. It's incredibly bad form that you had to contact those printers yourself to hear the truth.

Apologizing doesn't change that it was a -lie-. And the fact Rabbit keeps dodging that topic is bothering me.
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 19th, 2012 11:47 pm (UTC)
Ahh that clears up a lot of confusion.
Nov. 20th, 2012 07:55 am (UTC)
Regardless of that printer email turning out to be inaccurate, am I the only one who's more concerned and annoyed by the repeated "oh it's in the mail" "it'll be in the mail" lies/broken promises? I cannot abide this in a company and it's a massive red flag to STAYTHEHELLAWAY.

I had looked at Rabbit Valley a few times for print work and I'm glad I listened to my own misgivings about them.
Nov. 20th, 2012 01:53 pm (UTC)
No you are not. That was more than "stringing the artist along", that was being untruthful. Don't tell someone a thing is done when it is not done.

I thought Rabbit Valley was a printing company themselves (had their own printers), not a middleman. This is an example of why sometimes it is better to just handle things yourself.
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 20th, 2012 02:41 pm (UTC)
Yeah, some see going through a middleman (or a middle company? lol ;D) as an advantage while others do not. I know a reason the OP felt they needed to in this case was because their comic was an adult one, and thus finding a reliable printer who would do adult work might have been a problem. Personally I feel if you can do it yourself then do it yourself as can save time and money. ^_^
(Deleted comment)
Nov. 20th, 2012 02:58 pm (UTC)
I understand you want to defend RV because of your great personal experiences with them, but please... slow down on the defense. Just sayin'.
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - felonykat - Nov. 21st, 2012 03:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 20th, 2012 04:29 pm (UTC)
It might be an exorbitant investment for them as a small business to purchase their own book printers, and so they choose to be middlemen for comics.

Its on the order of several hundred thousand to several million dollars for a decent printing press. It is definitely something you have done by a printing company.
Nov. 20th, 2012 09:04 am (UTC)
I just wanted to add that I personally have had good experiences in the past working with them, but granted that was back in 2009. I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but I did want to throw in that my experience was a good one and I got the prints I needed on time and to my satisfaction.

I'm sorry to hear that a lot of time was spent trying to resolve this, though. :( At the same time, I'm glad they have owned up to the issues involved in your transaction. Should I go back to them to have prints done (unsure, mainly because my prints have never sold very well), I'm hoping these issues won't reoccur.
Nov. 20th, 2012 04:34 pm (UTC)
My experience with them was fine communication wise, but poor on both quality and price for what I received (art prints. They were streaky, shiny ink on matte paper, and my PSD's remained un flattened, so there are obvious halos around layers), though this was back in 2009.

I'm glad the miscommunication has been sort of (?) cleared up, but after receiving a low quality product that I literally can't sell, I won't be working with them again.
( 24 comments — Leave a comment )


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