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Problems with Paint/Skink

It should be noted that this beware is similar to one that already exists on Paint, posted by Acroth.

http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/tag/artist-paint

As you can see from this old journal by Paint.

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2950583/

We're both on there (I'm ADF). The only difference is Acroth had the sense to go after a refund opportunity were as I stuck around longer, naively thinking if I was just patient and showed understanding during delays; that Paint would either do my art or refund me eventually. But here I am months on, still waiting. I stuck with her all this time and I'm afraid to say I am no better off for it :( I wish I didn't have to post this, but I haven't much choice given the present situation.

Who:

Paint, they prefer Skink but I'm used to calling them Paint.

Where:

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/paint/ (NSFW page content if you have an account)

What:

Three separate commissions agreed at different dates. I've created copies of the conversations concerning each one, censoring out e-mails and any mature details. They are in order of when they were taken on, with the first being the most late.



Conversation - http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6821/paint1q.png

These were eight different nude poses of a character I called Emily for fun, which was an unusual human/lizard hybrid from a transformation story I wrote. They were coloured sketches and the price tag came to $50.

Unlike the other two commissions, this one was half completed and I have received four of the eight images. But progress inexplicably stopped.



Conversation - http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4240/paint2a.png

This was a character sheet for a new lizard sona I was hoping to get as an alt to my current one. It involved a clean/adult version of the same sheet. The price came to $71.

No progress has been made on this commission.




Conversation - http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/94/paint3jd.png

A transformation comic of a mature nature where a couple turn into anthro iguanas. Most of the details for this commission were agreed during a livestream so there is no record of those conversations, the above was just getting the details down so they had something to reference during the stream. The price came to $75.

The stream ended before Paint could get around to my commission, so she told me to attend tomorrows stream where she would work on it. I did, but she was too busy doing newly paid for commissions from that stream to work on my one, so it never got done. Some may ask why I would be silly enough to take up a third commission with Paint when she already owed me two that were late... I was assured the reason they were delayed so long was because Paint worked better during a stream, that work gets done during a stream. So I trusted her when she said a commission taken on during the stream would get done, but of course it didn't...


When:

When I started to feel no progress had been made for too long, I started contacting Paint regarding this. A record of these conversations can be found here.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7392/paint4.png

As you can see, the artist/customer relationship slowly disintegrated over time. While initially expressing a will to get these commissions completed, communication later collapsed.

Proof:

Here are the payment details for these commissions. Most of the discussion regarding these commissions are in the links included in the above section.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/541/paypaltransactions.png

Explain:

I feel I have done everything I could of to resolve this matter. I kept in touch, I attended streams when I was told she could do them then, I was open for negotiation on how to move forward with them. I went above and beyond some others when it comes to showing patience and understanding with Paints regular problems, but ignoring my messages has really left the situation hopeless. The only alternative to maintain conversation would be to invade a journal or stream and hijack the discussion for this purpose, which inevitably would have led to me being made to look the bad guy...

The worst part is, and probably why I've tolerated this for so long, is because I don't want Paint to dislike me :( I still don't, but I cannot imagine she will be happy to see I have posted this. My question to her would be "what else could I have done?" because I tried everything. I begged you to work with me to resolve this matter in the end and you responded with the silent treatment, what more could I have done?

I hope she cares enough about what other people think that being posted up on Artists Beware will prompt her to want to get this matter sorted. But given she is already up here for reasons similiar to my own, I'm just not sure... Best case scenario is I'm refunded for the commissions (accounting for reductions for the completed Emily poses) and we can both move on. Maybe in time even get over this experience and get back on good terms again? But that's just me being hopeful.

Refunds

$171/ $171

Refunds are to be made every Friday over six weeks, so $28.50 per payment.

17/11/12 - $28.50 received
24/11/12 - $28.50 received
30/11/12 - No payment was receieved this Friday.
03/12/12 - Paint had forgotten and apologised, will be getting payment later.
04/12/12 - $28.50 received
07/12/12 - $28.50 received
15/12/12 - $28.50 received
24/12/12 - $28.50 received
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
annoyeddragon
Nov. 12th, 2012 04:31 am (UTC)
Since posting this to Artists Beware, Paint has come out of hibernation and made this journal post on FA.

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/4016833/

Where she states she's aware that there are messages that she hasn't even looked at yet, and she's going to continue not looking at them until she feels ready. People will note that the message she is referring to with "stop ignoring my messages" is actually the last message I sent her, as referenced in the 'When' section above. So she's seen that message, she's just decided not to look at it yet, again for the third time...

She states numerous reasons as to why she cannot do art or respond to people. It should be noted over the period that I've commissioned Paint, there has been seemingly never ending life problems that have prevented Paint from tackling these subjects. She's done commission streams to take on new work, but when it comes to keeping up with notes or commissions; there is usually some sort of life problem. You can even look at the year old journal I linked at the top of my beware, even back then there was always something preventing progress. The comment I made in it was referencing a recent downtime because Paint had burned out, that was the explanation at that time.

I clearly cannot say for certain if any of these issues are fabricated as excuses, but there has never been any shortage of them, Paint appears cursed by these life problems. Other people who experienced problems with Paint such as Acroth reported a similar situation, where their work was always perpetually delayed for one reason or another.

A year on, Paint still appears to be cursed.
kingcrowned
Nov. 12th, 2012 08:10 am (UTC)
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/4020134/

Looks like she's just made another journal. She's apparently willing to start talking schedules for refunds or doing work.
annoyeddragon
Nov. 12th, 2012 02:28 pm (UTC)
A month+ of not looking at my messages, but it's the "Artists Beware" one that gets a reaction the very next day.

I'm currently in the process of contacting her regarding it.
namelessimp
Nov. 12th, 2012 04:13 pm (UTC)
If she refuses to refund you, bring it up to paypal. I sent an email to them after the disputation date (45 days after transaction) when the artist showed me no progress and wasn't responding to my notes despite being active on the site. I was able to get a refund, and suddenly lo and behold, they noted me back and told me I should have asked them for a refund first (I had asked for progress or a refund 3 times). I told them kindly that they were unprofessional about how they handled a business transaction but since I had my money back, I held no grudge against them.

I am sure Paint will not like you for it, but the option it always there if you need it.
aerospiritual
Nov. 12th, 2012 05:24 pm (UTC)
Slightly unrelated, but-

What kind of evidence did you need to get PayPal to refund you? Like, just screenshots of the transaction and contact attempts? I've been waiting on an image for over a year, have been trying to get a hold of the artist since August to no avail[despite them being active on a lot of sites] for a refund.
sigilgoat
Nov. 12th, 2012 06:16 pm (UTC)
Yes, those are the kind of things they will ask for!

If it's outside the 45 days, there's no guarantee, but it's always worth a shot, especially with non-response from an artist.
aerospiritual
Nov. 12th, 2012 10:56 pm (UTC)
Awesome, thanks! I'm definitely going to explore this option.
marmalade0997
Nov. 13th, 2012 03:38 am (UTC)
I can add that she hasn't been responding to notes for a long time. I tried to purchase an item from her 3-4 months back, paid her my $75, and then waited for it to arrive in the mail. I sent her probably 4 or 5 notes to see if she was ever going to ship it after two months with no package or information on what was going on, and then asked for a refund. Only reason I got one was because I titled my note "Refund", all of them are still unread.
annoyeddragon
Nov. 13th, 2012 04:05 am (UTC)
I do have to wonder just how many people are having this problem, how many more people will/have waited a considerable period and have yet to speak up about it.
kingcrowned
Nov. 12th, 2012 08:15 am (UTC)
Honestly, I'm sorry this happened to you. I've been following Paint for awhile, I like their work- as of late though, I've really begun to dislike their attitude. I have to wonder if they would have made that journal at all if you didn't post here first, since they haven't been looking at your notes for ages now. The "things have been really hard lately" thing falls a little short IMO when she's been neglecting to do anything for over a year and she still manages to find the time to do personal work, freebies, and quick commissions on a regular basis.

I think at some point she probably should have just given out refunds whether or not the commissioner agreed or asked, but ah well. I hope you get your refund or work soon, man.
morti_macabre
Nov. 12th, 2012 02:17 pm (UTC)
Pretty much this. Honestly I'm surprised she's feeding excuses instead of raging. It's unfortunate either way. I hope she learns a bit from this.
annoyeddragon
Nov. 12th, 2012 07:52 pm (UTC)
I'm just posting an update that Paint has been in touch.

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2531/paintresponse.png

I've got back to her saying I'd prefer a refund at this stage, which judging her last journal will likely be paid back in parts. Just waiting on a response now.
sigilgoat
Nov. 12th, 2012 08:01 pm (UTC)
Keep us updated! If/when you feel this has been resolved, we'll gladly tag it as such!

Edited at 2012-11-12 08:01 pm (UTC)
annoyeddragon
Nov. 12th, 2012 08:05 pm (UTC)
The main thing is if something actually happens. She may agree to pay back in parts, but over what period of time?

I don't know how long Artists Beware allow something to remain open, but I wouldn't be happy in declaring the matter resolved until a full refund is given. After all, the promise of a gradual refund isn't an actual refund. Paint has promised me a fair few things in the past, let's see if she actually delivers this time.
sigilgoat
Nov. 12th, 2012 08:33 pm (UTC)
We don't mark something resolved until it is. It will remain open until you've been paid back in full, or whatever other form of resolution you're satisfied with!

You are free to add a message to the bottom of your post as an update, letting people know it's in progress!
annoyeddragon
Nov. 13th, 2012 10:43 am (UTC)
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/239/paintresponse2.png

Paint offered paying me back over a six week period. While it's longer than what I would have hoped, it's a schedule to resolve the matter so I agreed. I'll be updating the main post over time as these payments are received.

I should note that Paint has been civil regarding all this and hasn't been living up to the attitude I was wary of from other people's warnings. Provided she delivers on this promise, I'm pleased with this outcome.
darmit
Nov. 17th, 2012 04:35 pm (UTC)
Really hope you get your money back. Personally I'm a bit appalled that they spent the commission money before even starting work on a number of them. You have some -extreme- patience (which I know from personal experience, since you commissioned me under my acidrica name on FA, and were nothing if not understanding when I was unable to complete your commission due to health stuff after waiting for, what I recall, was months). That she was working on newer commissions even when she owed you yours also seems like pretty bad practice.

You're a great commissioner, and really don't deserve that.
annoyeddragon
Nov. 17th, 2012 06:40 pm (UTC)
Thank you. At this point I only wish to bring the matter to a close.

I don't like pushing people who are money tight to give some of it up for trivial matters like art, when they've got bills to pay and food to buy, but this is a never ending issue. Money is always tight for Paint, which is why they argued people shouldn't criticise them for accepting new commissions when they still owed others. I even kept a stiff upper lip as they increased their expenses by taking on more pets, as it was often a matter of do or die for the animal.

But seeing them offer a free art stream was really the last straw. As at that point it had just become a cruel joke, that I had waited so long and accepted every explanation that had been given, and then they just gave art away to people despite knowing others like me had waited a year for paid work.

Thankfully Paint has been civil regarding the matter and expressed interest in getting it resolved. I just hope she sticks to the present plan of repayment and we can both move on.
annoyeddragon
Dec. 25th, 2012 12:05 am (UTC)
Paint has diligently repaid the commission money every week and I am happy to report that the full refund has been received. She was very cooperative and civil during communication and I have no complaints, the agreed payment schedule has been met.

This matter can now be considered resolved.
oceandezignz
Dec. 25th, 2012 12:29 am (UTC)
Congratulations! It is tagged resolved. :)
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )

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