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I really hate having to post here. I have a bit of anxiety issues and was hoping to just let this go, but many of my friends said it's really something that needs to be shared. I actually wasn't sure if it's even worth a beware, so I asked for the mods opinions first, to make sure I wasn't posting wrongly.

WHO: They have two accounts on FA, lil-ariin and ariin



WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/lil-ariin/

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ariin/

WHAT: A digital piece, full colour, two characters and a background.

WHEN: First payed on July 29th, finished completely on September 1st

PROOF:

Commission info he sent me

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin1.png

Payment sent

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin2.png

Giving his friend permission to approve progress

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin3.png

Explaining that I can only work with one person, since he gave his friend permission for approvals

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin4.png

Sending the friend the sketch

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking2.png

Approving the sketch with a minor change needed

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking3.png

Contacting about how I was having trouble and giving different options

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking4.png

Bit of a misunderstanding and just explaining what's going on.

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking5.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking6.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking7.png

Got out of that funk and was able to ink it and sent it for a approval, both approving

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking8.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking9.png

Sent finished piece

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking10.png

Ariin now contacts me, no word from the friend.

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin5.png

We start discussing things

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin6.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin7.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin8.png >> I misread what he had said here, my fault! I thought he was upset that only his character didn't have a visible diaper, not that he wanted visble diapers on the ground.

http://oi49.tinypic.com/10efryu.jpg 

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin10.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin11.png

EXPLAIN: I'd like to state right away that I did do a few mistakes. I personally have always shown progress approvals, both the sketch and inks, this is to make sure that if I do forget anything, it can be fixed right away. When something is my own mistake and something small enough, I'll gladly fix it after the fact. Otherwise though, big things do really need to be asked in the sketch or ink stage. But this varies from person to person.

Ariin commissioned me for a picture. As I had others ahead of him, it took a bit of time before I could get to the sketch and make sure to send updates on that. On August 9th, I sent the sketch for approval. On the 16th I sent a reminder of approval. I no longer have the email, but may be able to find it by digging, but his friend, the other character in the image, messaged me to ask about the sketch, Ariin had left for vacation withought mentioning so. I personally cannot work with more then one person, as when I've done it before one would ask for changes, then the other and contradict themselves, because of that I work with one person who is responsible to comunicate for both parties.

In the end, Ariin contacted me, approved the sketch and gave permission for his friend to approve stages instead as he wasn't going to be back yet from vacation.

During this time, I had a really difficult time continuing on with the image. It's a bit difficult to understand if you're not an artist I think, but sometimes things just don't seem to turn out right and feel a bit awkward. I didn't want to give a bad picture or make them wait too long, so I gave different options and asked if it'd be ok. They went with re-sketching the same idea. After taking a break though I got out of that funk and was able to continue on with inking no problem and sent it off for approval. I realize this is most likely a big fault on my end and should have asked if they wanted me to continue or go with the re-sketch. I hadn't thought of it as I was already working on it and they did very much seem to like the sketch. The friend said they both approved.

I continued on and finished the commission. That's when Ariin contacted me. The screenshots have all the info for that.

In the end, I felt much too stressed to continue with it and refunded the background fee for things I had missed and couldn't fix and a bit extra for good faith.

I would like to say though that his friend was a great joy to work with and talked to me calmly, he seems like a really nice guy that just got caught up in the middle. He messaged me to tell me he did like the picture a lot. 


Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 84 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 2
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shukivengeance
Sep. 12th, 2012 11:10 pm (UTC)
This post has been approved because the screencaps clearly outline his unreasonable behavior, however your "Explain" section is a little too emphatically self-critical.

You as the artist did your best to provide a service and it was his actions that were unreasonable, so if you could edit the post to reflect that - i.e. write a clear and preferably neutral summary of everything that happened instead of tearing yourself down and making excuses when you were not to blame - we would appreciate that, for the sake of clarity and making the post easy to comprehend.
sbneko
Sep. 12th, 2012 11:12 pm (UTC)
Sure, that won't be a problem. I have to admit, I felt like it was needed because I was nervous I may have done something wrong. I'll edit it.
(no subject) - sbneko - Sep. 12th, 2012 11:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Sep. 13th, 2012 03:26 am (UTC) - Expand
celestinaketzia
Sep. 12th, 2012 11:53 pm (UTC)
Wait, was he expecting you to be psychic about the personalities? When commissioning art it is imperative to note any sorts of personality traits that are important to the character. It is not the artist's job to hunt down any information besides what is provided.

This beware is well warranted. First he handed the reins over to his friend, and then gets upset when everything is not up to par? And then he has the nerve to insult your business practices when he's asking for more than what was originally agreed to? No. Just no.

You did far more than you were obligated to, SB. I've worked with you before, and I know you are professional and to the point. I commend you for staying calm all through the end, because that transaction would have ended with "Sorry, but you approved all the stages. There are no edits as per my ToS." if it were me.

(OT: and my SO and I were just discussing how we need to commission you...)
sbneko
Sep. 12th, 2012 11:58 pm (UTC)
I have to thank my friends for that, especially Temrin. Having someone to talk to, especially another professional artist, really helps you stay in line, know what you should and shouldn't do, as well as help look over replies so that you don't sound rude. I very much suggest this for anyone who gets emotional easily.

And thank you very much for the compliments.
(no subject) - temrin - Sep. 13th, 2012 12:08 am (UTC) - Expand
magicalondine
Sep. 13th, 2012 12:08 am (UTC)
Wow... I read through all those messages, and I could almost feel the stress coming on, just imagining myself in that situation.

I agree with Taasla. You did a lot more work on this than was necessary, just to appease them after they gave you a huge list of changes after it was completed. You're clearly very professional about this, but Ariin did not seem like they were really willing to work with you or respect your work process.

Beware well warranted... @_@;;
(Deleted comment)
forsaken_malice
Sep. 13th, 2012 01:43 am (UTC)
I'm still reeling from that personality comment myself... wtf
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Sep. 13th, 2012 02:26 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skittlewolf - Sep. 13th, 2012 02:49 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Sep. 13th, 2012 03:27 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 13th, 2012 07:23 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - starcharmer - Sep. 14th, 2012 01:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
blot
Sep. 13th, 2012 01:36 am (UTC)
Oh goodness. This is kind of a clusterfluff. SB, he was being pretty unreasonable. Unfortunately, sometimes people expect artists to be more than a mere person. You have to be like a psychic art-making robot, but still retain a perfect personality. I've got anxiety too, and I'm pretty sure I would have ended this commission half way though D:
I'm sorry that no matter how much extra you did, they were never happy.
skittlewolf
Sep. 13th, 2012 02:51 am (UTC)
It didn't seem so bad at first and then I kept reading. The passive-aggressive (sometimes right out aggressive) tones, the bullying, the insults, etc. are just absurd and uncalled for. What does he expect an artist to do when taking commissions online? Telephone? If he expects it to be over a messenger that is not good for either party since it can lead to more confusion and downright creep behavior.

Also, rumors about you? What is this stereotype about baby fur artists? This last part is just pure curiosity though.
blot
Sep. 13th, 2012 02:54 am (UTC)
All I could think of was he meant maybe Skype or IM? I mean, not many artists use those because they are reserved for friends ad commissioners sometimes that advantage of that.
(no subject) - sbneko - Sep. 13th, 2012 02:56 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - blot - Sep. 13th, 2012 02:59 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - neolucky - Sep. 13th, 2012 06:18 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Sep. 13th, 2012 06:21 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Sep. 13th, 2012 02:55 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - radcatastrophe - Sep. 18th, 2012 12:03 am (UTC) - Expand
mekania
Sep. 13th, 2012 05:11 am (UTC)
"I'll avoid ranting about how everyone were right about babyfur artists in this email. Just know that you have quite a rumor, apparently. sucks to actually see it"

Say what? Is he saying you have a bad reputation because you won't let people take advantage of you? You've owned up and fixed things you were wrong and some things you really shouldn't have had to do.

The "interesting business model" and all the comments about he wishes you got to know them before drawing/email not being great for commissioning really rubbed me the wrong way. Email is probably the best way to communicate. You have everything written and in one place so you can refer back to it if there are problems. Like say, a commissioner trying to make changes to things they were fine with in the first place (or an artist saying you never told them something you did, in the opposite situation).

Sorry you went through this. And if the worst thing they can honestly say about you is that when they wanted extra edits you refunded them for your mistakes? Then I think your reputation will be fine, regardless of his talk of "rumors".
celarania
Sep. 13th, 2012 05:26 am (UTC)
I do feel as though there were a few things you over-looked in the description, but that doesn't excuse the commissioner's behavior at all. He was 100% in the wrong for treating you that way. However, on your part it doesn't read as sleep-over, and cetainlydidn't at first: that seems like a major issue. (There were some details you left out, but I think mood is a bigger deal than "mess of clothes.") You didn't do anything to deserve what you got in return, but I can see where he wasn't happy about that.

You may want to include a "basic personality" field. While you certainly can't be expect to be psychic, you can take steps to avoid it in the future.

Also, how much was the entire piece? I'm trying to get a scale of what the $30 refund means.
sbneko
Sep. 13th, 2012 05:33 am (UTC)
I do understand, it's something I need to watch for in the future. I think maybe I just sketch too quickly and don't realize I missed something, but it's also why I send approvals, just as a precaution. I think it's mostly because it was a lot of text for me, personally, so I just missed things as I working. Next time, I'm going to ask the commissioner to condense it to bullet point, or do it myself and run it by them to make sure I got everything important.


The piece was about 100. 20 being the background fee, so I refunded it in full.
glacidea
Sep. 13th, 2012 05:40 am (UTC)
oh god, I hate when people think they are instantly your BFF because they commissioned you. To me, email or PMs are the best communication because there is hard evidence of the transaction and IMs can be informal, plus I just don't like using IM, really, in general. You did everything you could and were professional. It's not your fault that the sketch was approved the way it was. They should have voiced their displeasure then.
thaily
Sep. 13th, 2012 07:29 am (UTC)
"I'll avoid ranting about how everyone were right about babyfur artists in this email. Just know that you have quite a rumor, apparently. sucks to actually see it"

If babyfur artists have such bad reputations, what about their overly critical babyfur customers? :|
Beware well earned.
puritikoneko
Sep. 13th, 2012 11:39 am (UTC)
^This
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Sep. 13th, 2012 05:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ljmydayaway - Sep. 14th, 2012 12:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Sep. 14th, 2012 12:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ljmydayaway - Sep. 14th, 2012 01:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Sep. 14th, 2012 01:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 14th, 2012 04:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 14th, 2012 04:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 14th, 2012 04:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
intj_reflection
Sep. 13th, 2012 04:52 pm (UTC)
Wow, beware extremely well warranted. His extremely passive aggressive comment at the bottom of the journal on his ariin account about the commissions he's waiting for makes yet another good reason to avoid him.
celestinaketzia
Sep. 13th, 2012 06:44 pm (UTC)
Oh wow, great catch. I don't know if that was there before or not. I don't know where he thinks it's an artist's job to become bffs with clients.
(no subject) - fetalstar - Sep. 13th, 2012 11:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Sep. 13th, 2012 11:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - temrin - Sep. 14th, 2012 09:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - enter_data_here - Sep. 15th, 2012 04:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 14th, 2012 04:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
ryunwoofie
Sep. 13th, 2012 08:48 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you aired this out. Seriously well deserved beware. Blocking on all ends. :3
ellonwye
Sep. 13th, 2012 10:31 pm (UTC)
'Please note that because most artists on FA seem to be complete morons, I will only commission or even accept art from people I know well. A lesson for the artists; GET TO KNOW YOUR FUCKING CLIENT. It takes you 10 minutes. You get paid for that. Lesson for commissioners: Get to know your artist or you will be gravely disappointed.'

Oh, honey. No.
bobghengiskhan
Sep. 13th, 2012 11:31 pm (UTC)
The irony here is by all accounts if artists actually did get to know him as a client, they wouldn't be doing business with him.
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Sep. 13th, 2012 11:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - enter_data_here - Sep. 15th, 2012 04:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ljmydayaway - Sep. 14th, 2012 12:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mistresswolf - Sep. 14th, 2012 11:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - logosh - Sep. 15th, 2012 04:05 am (UTC) - Expand
magnanimousity
Sep. 14th, 2012 12:48 am (UTC)
I'd like to add that IrinaWylder is another one of Ariin's accounts, for his alternate fursona.
sbneko
Sep. 14th, 2012 12:50 am (UTC)
How do you know?

We just need proof here on AB, since sometimes people get mistaken for others.
(no subject) - princehadri - Sep. 14th, 2012 01:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Sep. 14th, 2012 01:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - neolucky - Sep. 14th, 2012 03:31 am (UTC) - Expand
timelapsedecay
Sep. 14th, 2012 05:23 am (UTC)
I love the part where they say they feel like they're being personally attacked because the 'mistakes' they're seeing are all in their character
Wow way to get way too personal about it? The world doesn't revolve around an artist's client. Golly.
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