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Help Advice wanted

I need some advice. I am having a lot of issues with someone. Here is what happend. I talked to someone about making a collar for my dog. This started the end of Apirl being of May. I wanted to have one made as I wanted as little metal on the collar. He said he could do snaps. I asked him if I could do a part trade and he said it was ok.My half of the trade was a pillow. I sent him $20 on the 2nd of May. After a month of not hearing from him I sent him a note asking. He said he never got the money so I told him to go look. He did and the money was there. I was almost done with the pillow and he did not even start work on the collar. Once he was done with the collar he said he did not have the money to send it. So I sent him another $10. On August 7th he said he has shiped the collar two weeks ago and would not give me any info on the shipping. Finely he said he got it back in the mail and then sent it again. This time I got it. The collar was done poorly. This is what I sent him.

1. The collar was to made with as little metal as possible so that when Thor shook his head, he wouldn't tear up his ears and make them bloody. This collar has a big metal buckle and D ring.

2. You said it was being made out of buffalo. What we got was a layer of cowskin with a buffalo print on one side and layer of pleather backing that was already separating.

3. The buckle wasn't wide enough for the width of the collar.

4. The holes for the buckle weren't dyed, so you could see raw leather. This is the section where the collar was separating.

5. The leather to hold the buckle was a scrap piece folded over the end of the collar, like someone trying to make a piece of leather work as the end of the collar should have been folded over to hold the buckle.

6. The rivets used to secure this scrap piece around the buckle and D ring were too small. It would have fallen apart if we'd tried to use it on Thor.

7. The "hammer"s" look like large I's and so it looks like it says IThorI.

8. The silver paint that Thor is painted with is already flaking off without even been used yet.

9. The stamping of the leather wasn't done right and so it's blurry as it wasn't hammered hard enough the first time and shows shadows of the different poundings.

10. This took three months from the time we first started talking about it.

11. I made a $20 payment, emailed you, and it was a month later as I didn't want to nag you, that I message you again and you realized I'd made a payment.

.12. You claimed you couldn't afford to ship it once it was done, so I sent you another $10 and it was weeks before you shipped it. You said you'd tried shipping it two times already, but wouldn't confirm what address you'd shipped it to. Said you were having you wife go and ship it and was shipped a week and a half after that.

13. You accused me of trying to scam you and that I was rude. Seems you are the one scamming me. I was more than patient and for a piece of junk.

14. It's costing me $25 to have a leather worker to fix the collar to something I can use, and then I'm going to have to repaint the letters Thor and paint over the "hammers" with black so that they don't look like I's.

Summary: I would have been ashamed to ship a product that was so poorly done and obviously just thrown together and expect payment for it. The leather shop we took it to, to confirm it wasn't buffalo, was appalled that someone would have expected payment for it. I would have been ashamed to give it as a gift. I'm amazed that you had the nerve to ship it. I know that I won't get the $30 back that I've already paid you for the collar. I wouldn't have paid $10 let alone $20 and a custom pillow, so you can consider our barter deal null and void. I know that you are going to think that I've ripped you off, but after the delays, games and poor product, if you were in CA, I'd be taking you to small claims court for the $30 on principal, so you better be happy you're in TX. If you still want the pillow, it's $60.

Now he is throwing a hissy fit. I do not feel like I should have to send him a pillow after everthing. I am not even showing all the emails between us. Can someone please give me advice.

He did send me my money back without me asking but I have put more money into the collar to have it fixed.
I was not planing on having it fixed. I toke it into a leather shop to confurm it was not buffalo it was just cow hide.
The guy hardly pulled on it and the end where the buckle was fell apart. I did not think I would get my money back or anything so I had them fix it. Its fixed and payed for.

-edit 2- Here is his resopes to my note. That he send to my mom as he has her email from paypal.
I understand her being angry at the collar. You have been refunded your money and i do apologize for everything that has occurred how ever her language is not appropriate, aspergers  or not. I have in fact reported her to the FA admins. But making threats of " if you were in CA, I'd be taking you to small claims court for the $30 on principal, so you better be happy you're in TX." I would actually be more than happy to show the courts in San Diego where im from the note in which out trade agreement was discussed. You now have a collar and your money I have nothing. I would like to still have the pillow. If not so be it. Please monitor her actions on the internet more closely. Her journal which has been Screen shot and saved can be used as admissible defamation as well as her letter. I have contacted my attorneys and would be more than happy to take this to court however as adults I dont think that is necessary. I would ask the journals be removed please. And we will go our separate ways. I assure you if she would not have posted a journal i would have remade and shipped the collar free of charge.I take pride in my work. At this point I wish you harmony and peace and good fortune. Have a blessed day

This is what my mom sent back
 I'm sorry for your issues with gall stones.  I understand they are painful
Since I wrote the list of issues and summary, I know what was posted. Please explain which specific sections of the posting were inappropriate.
We didn't start out to pay someone to fix the collar, but took it to a shop, just to confirm what I knew that the collar wasn't buffalo as I've worked with buffalo myself, but when he tugged a little on the piece of leather holding the buckle and D ring, one of the rivets popped off.  If we'd have used it, it would have fallen apart and he'd have run off.  At this point, we asked them to fix it.  Yes, the look of the collar on top appears to be buffalo, but due to the separation of the pieces we could see the bottom of the actual piece of leather and it was not buffalo. One of the repairs the leather store did was glue the backing back on.  They also used a hook type system to allow the collar to have no metal showing that Thor can shake his ears on.  This is the same style that they use for K-9 bite suits so that the dogs don't tear the suits off or injure their mouths. This was the primary reason  Heather was having you make a collar and why we chose to have them fix the collar.  I worked for a custom leather company for years, so I do know the value of the type of work done, and what different kinds of leather are like.  It's not soft enough to be buffalo and it's not dark enough either.  There were several people in the shop and they all agreed it wasn't buffalo.  If you paid buffalo prices, I think you were ripped off.  The collar has already been fixed and paid for, so I can't return it.
We are going on a trip and seeing as how long it took you to get the original collar, we wouldn't get a replacement collar before we left.  We need the collar for the trip. 
If there would have been one or two issues, we wouldn't be in this situation, but the more we looked at the collar, the more amazed we were at how many issues there were.  This whole time, I've read what my daughter posted, saw how long it took for you to respond to her when you did respond and feel that you have said things like her being rude that could easily be applied to you.  The number of times she texted you and you didn't respond, caused hard feelings and was not professional.  And if you would have responded, this would not have gotten to this point.
We tried to be as patient and understanding as possible, waiting for months, and even sending you the $10 for shipping which wasn't part of the deal. My daughter repeatedly asked what address you shipped to once we found out that the package had been returned.  After the first time it was returned, you should have checked with us.  I'm not sure why it didn't make it here the first two times, we get many packages, from many different sources, and we've never had the companies say it was returned. This makes me wonder what,where or how you tried to ship it.
We didn't ask for the $30 to be returned, so thank you, and since you did, Heather will remove the journals. 
For the record, I did pay over $25 for the pillow itself (I can provide proof), and paid for the rest of the materials to finish it, not to mention the time my daughter put into doing the trapunto. So the comment that it is a $10 pillow is very inflammatory.
We'll agree not to get each other put on the warning list and to not journal or note back and forth on this issue anymore.
I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
Heather's Mom

This is what she got back
I urge you to also take these down as well http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thorthewolf
I truly wished to be able to remake the collar as well. But again im glad this is all finished. How ever i would not pay 25 to have someone restore it. I would go and get a stamping set and a collar from petsmart. Again the journals were not necessary at all.  I will ensure to tell every fur that asks me not to buy a pillow nor have any dealings with your daughter what so ever. As you see I have well over 1000 watchers.And many more califurs  and other across the nation. As you have been refunded your 30 i would humbly request the pillow be shipped to me please. I would hate for her to lose her account and be banned from FA due to other notes she had sent. As well what i forwarded to you is what she sent to me in a note. The bottom part was not in the journal her threat to take me to small claims court was not in the journal. As long as i can still have the pillow I see no reason fo rthis to go any further nor the reason to inform other on how badly i was taken advantage of. I am attending MFM Wednesday. It is one of the biggest cons. I can either encourage people to buy her pillows or discourage. I only feel it is fair. It is your choice.

This is what she sent back
She's taking down the other journals.  You have not explained what in the journals was inappropriate.  As far as I can see, there was nothing. 
I did see the note she sent you about small claims, and that was my wording.  I have been involved in this from the beginning, seen all the notes, all the ignored texts she sent.
You still don't seem to get the fact of the original reason to make the collar was so it would not have a metal buckle. If you had said you couldn't do that, none of this would have happened.  I know that Heather had to tell you three times, what Thor's neck was, if you'd gone back and read the notes, you'd have seen that, as well as the entire reason for having you do the collar.
I'd like to see the receipts on what you spent on the collar before we go any further. 
I now understand why you wanted the $20 and the pillow since you feel the pillow was only worth $10.  So, supposedly the $30 I paid and the "$10" pillow would have added up to your $40 collar.  This is so wrong.
You really don't know much about leather work, if you think you can buy a collar from Petsmart and stamp it, because the fully finished leather will not take a stamp well. 
Please let me know exactly what you think the collar is worth.  I'm very curious as at the moment, I believe the cost of materials we have in the pillow is way more than the materials you have in the collar.  I know the amount of work involved in both items is comparable.  Except for the fact that the collar was very poorly executed and I know the pillow is very well done.
I was going to be happy with just letting you keep the $30 and not shipping you the pillow.  The ranting Heather did in her journal was just that, and she didn't name you or anything.  You're the one who commented on her thread so people knew who you were.
Seems like you were just as rash, if not rasher in your comments and postings, then my daughter and I were.
So as it stands, we'll have put out $25 for the repair on the collar, $30 for the pillow materials, and another$10 for shipping to ship you the pillow, which is a total of $65 .
As far as I can figure, you're out $6 for shipping, and maybe $15 for materials for a total of $21, I don't include the two previously shipped charges due to the fact that it wasn't my fault it didn't get here and I have no proof you shipped it twice or what address you shipped to.
That's a difference of $44 in your favor.
Where in this scenario, is shipping you the pillow and calling it even, fair?  I"m not tryin to be a bitch, I really want to know what your're thinking.

Here is what he said back

I am finished you obviously think that youare int he right and speaking with you is going no where. I wish to have our trade as you have the leather and the collar. I have no idea how youcould make a buckle less collar. I think it is you who might be confused. I will let other know as many as will listen what my experience was with you and your daughter. I wish you good luck in finding anyone to purchase a 60 dollar pillow. As well I am considering placing her on the other artist beware  website. So as she or you does not effect anyone else. I am out the time it took to make the collar and the materials that went into it. YOU once again have a collar a pysical piece of leather I have nothing therefore the trade is no where near fair. You explain to me your reasoning of not completing the trade and why you feel it is acceptable to have something while i have nothing?

What was sent back
I was asking you what you thought was fair, obviously you think so highy of your self that no one else's work can come close to yours.
So you feel that the $44 difference in your favor it acceptable, and of course you would.  I will glady provide proof of both the pillow cost and the repair cost.  Will you provide proof of your material costs?
I am trying to work out a fair settlement but obviously YOU don't want to.
I don't feel it is acceptable for me to have something and you to have nothing.  I didn't ask you to return the money.
I'm willing to provide proof of payments, and work out a setttlement.  Apparently you aren't and threatening my daughter will only get the same placement on the artist beware website for you.
Do you even read the entire email, or just what you want?  I asked what you were thinking and I get a diatribe about the situation and your feelings, not your honest thoughts.
And, once I have access to a camera, I'll provide you with pictures of the buckless collar. 

What he sent back

At this point we are getting no where. I am done. I returned the 30 because your daughter posted she highly doubted she would get her money back. And if I were to report her to artists beware and then you chose to post about me they would deny your post. I.E retaliation. But it will not come to this. Sadly your both leather experts and I should have never crossed your paths.  I am no longer ever doing trades. The bottom line is you have a piece of leather in your hands. With my time and energy. a dring and rivets. I have ummmm air? I should not have to prove the cost of the leather nor the shipping you have a collar I have NOTHING. all i want is the pillow is that so hard? A trade is a trade you have your product it was not to your standards you should have shipped it back and canceled the trade. Now you have your product and the returned money and i have a huge headache. And a-lot of furs are going to here about this.
Trust me. All i want is the pillow. Just send it and this is over.Please its just fabric and I would repost it and tell everyone what an awesome job she did on it. I showed all of my friends the photos of it and they thought it was really cool. I mean just think if all 1000 plus watchers i have were to see it and order from you because of  my recommendation its win win situation Thor now has a collar I would have a pillow. to sleep on and bring to cons. Just ship it please.

Now I would like to point out that the pillow is not ment to be slept on. It is just to look good.
Here is a link to a differnt pillow. This one is a wolf. The one he wanted is a puma.
Front view http://www.furaffinity.net/view/7569154/
Side view http://www.furaffinity.net/view/7569198/

edit 3
Ok so after talking to frinds I have deside what I am going to do. I am going to send him the money back and be done with it. My friend brought up a very good point. That if I did send him the pillow he might make it look really bad and tells everone I did it.

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( 88 comments — Leave a comment )
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Aug. 27th, 2012 01:24 am (UTC)
Send him the collar back and get your money refunded.
Aug. 27th, 2012 02:04 am (UTC)
Agreed. You don't get to keep the product and not fulfill your end of the bargain. If you are unhappy, return the collar, get a refund. Actually, ask for the refund first, receive it, then send the collar, because it's a good chance this person will not bother responding once the item is received.
Aug. 27th, 2012 01:40 am (UTC)
Honestly, I wouldn't send the pillow if I were you. He didn't hold up his end of the deal entirely, so why should you?
I would also suggest posting a full beware about this guy; He sounds like a real pain to deal with. It'd be a shame for others to go through similar experiences with this guy. :/
Aug. 27th, 2012 04:00 am (UTC)
seconding this.
Aug. 27th, 2012 01:40 am (UTC)
Definitely send the collar back. At the very least, he can't really claim you're scamming him for the work if you don't have it in your hands, even if you are out the money.
Aug. 27th, 2012 01:41 am (UTC)
Wait, so you agreed to a trade with this person, he sent you what he made and you didn't send him what you agreed- and you're threatening that you'd take him to small claims court?

That's not how it works. Do you have a picture of the collar?
Aug. 27th, 2012 01:46 am (UTC)
Partial trade, they already paid the guy $30 as well. But after receiving the product they feel the $30 is well over what the product is worth already without sending a $60 pillow.
(no subject) - skanrashke - Aug. 27th, 2012 02:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Aug. 27th, 2012 03:27 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skanrashke - Aug. 27th, 2012 04:21 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skanrashke - Aug. 27th, 2012 04:23 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Aug. 27th, 2012 04:40 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skanrashke - Aug. 27th, 2012 04:51 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2012 02:11 am (UTC)
I don't think you can keep the collar and not give him the pillow. I fully understand that you have to pay someone else to fix it for you and that's not fair to you, but on the other hand you can't just change the deal halfway through either (in reference to not wanting to give them anything at all and/or raising the price of your pillow).

Without seeing the collar I can't really give any useful advice past asking for a refund, sending it back and washing your hands of the whole thing. Does this person have experience with collar-making in the first place?
Aug. 27th, 2012 02:30 am (UTC)
One, it would help if we could see all the emails.

Two, I understand you're frustrated (I would be too, this person doesn't seem to grasp commissions yet), but I'm having trouble telling if you even gave the artist the chance to correct mistakes or issue a refund before you went to have someone else work on their product. Maybe you did. I can't tell, since I don't have the other emails to read.

Three, yes, he may have scammed you with a poor product, but you are indeed scamming him if you keep the collar without paying. Even if you're basically just taking the materials to someone else to fix it up--you've just scammed the artist out of those materials, at the very least. You need to either send the collar back and/or get a refund, or pay up as originally agreed.
Aug. 27th, 2012 03:51 am (UTC)
you've just scammed the artist out of those materials, at the very least

Granted, I'm not familiar with how much such things cost, but wouldn't that depend on the cost of materials? OP already paid $30(around $25 once you subtract the shipping, doubt the person used the full $10 toward shipping for a collar, which they really shouldn't have had to paid to begin with if it was to be a trade)
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Aug. 27th, 2012 04:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dinogrrl - Aug. 27th, 2012 09:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 09:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Aug. 27th, 2012 10:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 10:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dinogrrl - Aug. 27th, 2012 10:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 10:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Aug. 27th, 2012 10:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dinogrrl - Aug. 27th, 2012 10:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2012 03:46 am (UTC)
Do you have any pictures? I am sort of curious to see the "hammer I's" or whatever lol.

But yea I would send the collar back and just be done with it. It's not worth the stress.
Aug. 27th, 2012 03:55 am (UTC)
I'd get a refund, shipping cost included, then send the collar back and be done with it.

Though I gotta ask, given that this apparently is a ~$80 in value trade/payment, did the person have examples of their work? Just confused as to how the skill level you seem to have expected was so far below what you received. Also, pics!
Aug. 27th, 2012 04:14 am (UTC)
I've seen another collar made by this maker and can agree with your assessment of the quality as being poor. I'd never send something so poorly done to a paying customer. I'm sorry you got scammed there. I'd demand a $30 refund and pay postage to return the collar. Maybe sell the pillow to someone else or something? I dunno.

Good luck to you. <3
Aug. 27th, 2012 04:59 am (UTC)
You don't have to confirm here, but was this guy featured previously for something? They sound like similar cases from what I remember of the other one, but I don't want to go dragging his name through the mud if he's not/this is an advice post.
(no subject) - harliquinnraver - Aug. 27th, 2012 05:20 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - romani123 - Aug. 28th, 2012 10:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Aug. 29th, 2012 01:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - romani123 - Aug. 29th, 2012 03:30 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2012 09:48 am (UTC)
You should order from this site: http://collarfactory.com/
They make collars for people, pets, and they take on completely custom made things as well. You can even send in the materials you want them to use if they don't have them or are out of stock. I've ordered myself two collars and cuffs from here and well as a friend without any hassle or trouble.

I don't know what else to say about your situation but I'd see about a refund and cool down on the small courts claims since you didn't give him the pillow yet. He could have complaints about the pillows stitch work as well ya know.
Aug. 28th, 2012 12:02 am (UTC)
I second this recommendation. I've bought from them and the result really was fantastic and completely worth the money. While custom can get pricey, you get exactly what you pay for.
Aug. 27th, 2012 12:24 pm (UTC)
I feel weird about this. Who does a mutual physical trade, but doesn't send both side's items out at the same time if they're both finished (which it sounds like the OP's end is complete)?

Especially after you pressured him to get it completed.

I've never seen it done that way, and I would never personally do it that way. :/ And I actually have done quite a few physical item trades.

I know it could have meant you might have been out time/money, but it's a show of good faith - you didn't even have good faith that his end would be good enough?
Aug. 28th, 2012 03:19 am (UTC)
I wouldn't do it this way either, but seen people do it plenty of times - send at different times I mean. Usually they know each other better though.
(no subject) - ljmydayaway - Aug. 28th, 2012 05:21 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2012 12:28 pm (UTC)
I would agree with sending the collar back. I know your intent is to get it repaired etc but it comes across as 'I'm unhappy with the product but i'm keeping it anyway.'

Also while I understand the frustration, if this is the email you sent him, the last two sentences of the summery reads as a bit childish. You're closing off the chance of him to explain or make a compromise. And going to small claims court for $30? Given the fees involved, it's not worth doing that for anything less than $500 and you'd still only get a fraction of that. I think it's unlikely to even go through so is an empty threat, esp as you say you're not going to do it anyway.

I would see about return and refund as a way of cancelling the deal. Hope it works out!

Aug. 28th, 2012 05:02 pm (UTC)
Where are you getting your info about small claims court? From what I understand it is to be used for petty amounts like this and up. There's usually a filing fee (c. $30-60) but the loser pays that, the winner walks away with the amount they're awarded.
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Aug. 28th, 2012 06:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Aug. 29th, 2012 03:33 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2012 03:26 pm (UTC)
Yeah, agreeing with most people here - just send the collar back. Get your money first though because he sounds like he may not send it once he has the collar. Even if the product is not the quality you thought it would be, that doesn't mean he can opt out of your end of the deal. So sending it back is the only way to really get everything settled. I'd just go to a professional and spend the extra money to get it done right.
Aug. 27th, 2012 07:33 pm (UTC)
You may not have asked for the money in so many words, but your email makes it pretty clear you think he should pay you back. And he did, so you should return the collar.

As for the leather shop fixing the collar, it seems you didn't give him a chance to respond before you went ahead with it, so he's not responsible for the cost. That one is your mistake, not his.

No one comes off looking good in this, but he's right that you do have the collar and he's got nothing. As for the pillow, you might be able to sell it to someone else, depending on the picture.

ETA: Just, consider it a learning experience and return the collar; it's not yours to keep.

Edited at 2012-08-27 07:36 pm (UTC)
Aug. 27th, 2012 08:52 pm (UTC)
Agreed with this. Your cash was refunded which essentially means the transaction is cancelled, so the item should be returned.
(no subject) - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 08:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Aug. 27th, 2012 08:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 08:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Aug. 27th, 2012 09:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 09:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moljn - Aug. 28th, 2012 05:18 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Aug. 28th, 2012 06:34 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2012 08:27 pm (UTC)
Mod Post
Please remove the collar maker's name from this post. Your post was submitted as an advice post and does not have enough evidence to be allowed to name the other party.

If you wish to submit a beware of this person, please make a new post using our report template linked above. Be sure to include screen caps of your correspondence.
And make sure all real names and PayPal addresses are blurred out. We would also need to see images of the collar.

In addition, your edits have made the post very long. Please place the majority of your post behind an LJ-cut.
Heather Robbins
Aug. 27th, 2012 08:32 pm (UTC)
Re: Mod Post
I am very new here and do not know what LJ-cut is can you please help.
Re: Mod Post - kerstin_orion - Aug. 27th, 2012 08:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mod Post - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 08:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mod Post - kerstin_orion - Aug. 27th, 2012 09:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mod Post - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 09:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mod Post - kerstin_orion - Aug. 27th, 2012 09:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mod Post - Heather Robbins - Aug. 27th, 2012 09:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
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