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WHO: Bailey, xxnanamithehuskyxx on FA http://www.furaffinity.net/user/xxnanamithehuskyxx/

WHERE: FA (An "auction" journal which I bid on. The artist deleted the auction journal.)

WHAT: A digital colored "pinup" adult commission. Note: The price was $10, which I understand is a small amount of money. This is a matter of principle: If this artist will steal $10 from me, she will steal $100 or $1,000 from somebody else.

WHEN/EXPLAIN: Commissioned and paid 3/6 per artist's prepay policy. I asked when to expect it 3/22 and she said "a week to a few months." I asked again on 5/13 and she said she was having problems with the software. I asked for a commitment to one month (6/13) longer since I was already sensing this artist was planning to run away with my money. Immediately she got defensive and threatened to report me for harassment for contacting her about my prepaid commission (which I guess FA decided my communication does NOT constitute harassment, since I never heard anything from any admin).

On 5/14 I was sent a very rough sketch, but nonetheless I was happy with how it was looking and gave the artist more time. The art did look good and if it had not been such an unprofessional and awful communication from this artist it would be worth more than $10 and probably would have been tipped. But once again, I hear nothing from the artist after this.

I asked for a status update 7/15 and the response was that I would receive a refund "as soon as I can." A month later, I still hadn't received the refund, so I wrote back, and this was the artist's reply: http://timoran.com/baileynp/Image29.png

Note: The artist's TOS says nothing about commissions taking an infinite length of time, nor that the artist can refuse to complete a paid for commission for any reason. The TOS did say "no refunds" but the TOS did not exist when I bid on the auction journal, and was deleted since then (it was copied and pasted to one of the notes in the chain). As far as I'm concerned, when the artist said she had no intention of delivering the art, and was going to refund me, that makes her TOS null and void.

The artist in question has stated she is not doing any art anymore, ever, however she is instead focusing on a fursuit business. Personally, I wouldn't suggest anyone consider going to an unprofessional artist such as Bailey for a fursuit commission, and especially considering the amount of upfront money tied to a fursuit commission. I'm sure her quality is fine but it's not worth the risk that she will just decide she's not interested in doing the commission you prepaid her for anymore, and just telling you "sorry, no art, no refund!"

PROOF: http://timoran.com/baileynp/

EDIT 8/17: I have finally received the refund from the artist. Thanks to AB for the assistance.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 123 comments — Leave a comment )
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skanrashke
Aug. 14th, 2012 08:10 am (UTC)
Where is her ToS listed, please?

Between this and her journal entry I suspect something is missing in the information put forth by both parties.
neolucky
Aug. 14th, 2012 08:21 am (UTC)
I agree, I'd very much like to find her TOS (I'm looking, but no findy) as well as see the sketch she gave the OP.
(no subject) - ansitru - Aug. 14th, 2012 08:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - neolucky - Aug. 14th, 2012 09:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
neolucky
Aug. 14th, 2012 08:11 am (UTC)
Mod Post
I expect the artist in question would like to post their side here, given that she's expressed interest in making a beware herself.

Please keep calm and civil if she does show up to explain her end of things, and hopefully you both will come to a resolution.

--- End Mod Post ---

If I were in your shoes, I might give the artist a couple $ leeway, given they gave you a sketch correct? Perhaps lowering the refund down to $7-$8 would be fair given she did start it. However I haven't seen the actual sketch, so I can't determine how far she's gotten.

Edited at 2012-08-14 11:00 pm (UTC)
wolf_goat
Aug. 14th, 2012 08:17 am (UTC)
One thing you need to stop harping on about is "prepaid prepaid". It is perfectly normal - particularly with cheap commissions - to take payment up front, indeed it is exceptionally advisable. It is not exceptional or unreasonable.

You do come across as impatient, pushy and brusque in your notes. As the others have said, It seems like there's some information missing here. And with their having been a WIP provided, a full refund was probably not in order.
thaily
Aug. 14th, 2012 08:34 am (UTC)
She said it could take a few weeks to a few months, and apparently she's been posting about her health issues and told you she had software/hardware issues. They're valid reasons for delay. You didn't get a solid deadline up front, you can ask for one now but she doesn't have to give you one.

Quite frankly I think it'd be in her best interest to terminate you as a client. She can't say she won't do the art -and- not refund you, no matter how rude you may have been; a refund seems like the best course of action. If she doesn't have the $10 to refund you, I hope she can get someone else to refund you and take your slot.

She claims you're harassing her and you've only provided one screenshot of the multiple notes you exchanged, quite frankly it looks as if you're cherry picking what you want to show us, presumably because she has valid reasons to accuse you of harassment and rudeness. Combined with your ridiculous exaggeration of "If this artist will steal $10 from me, she will steal $100 or $1,000 from somebody else." I'm inclined to believe the artist that your demeanor towards her has been course and hostile.
finnickodair
Aug. 14th, 2012 08:49 am (UTC)
There're more shots of the conversation in the final link, but it still feels like there's things missing - and after reading more of the notes I'm actually feeling more for the artist than the commissioner - surely not the reaction they were aiming for!

At this point, I'm just withholding judgement until it seems we actually have the whole story. :/
(no subject) - thaily - Aug. 14th, 2012 09:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
shukivengeance
Aug. 14th, 2012 03:16 pm (UTC)
The artist was the one who brought up giving the full refund though, and once offered they should be held to it imo. Spending the money before doing the work is no excuse.
celestinaketzia
Aug. 14th, 2012 10:30 am (UTC)
OP, is there any way we can see the rest of your conversation in notes? I am wondering why the artist keeps using such a strong word as "harassment", and saying that they want to come to A_B themselves. Like the others, I feel there is something missing.

On a side note, while the artist is moving slow, they did say that the art could take a few months by your admission.

Edit: Although, Artist? If you're reading this, blocking someone with a pending transaction with you is very bad form. While I disagree with the client that he is entitled to a full refund, he needs to be sent a partial refund, and the route to communication must remain open until then.

Edited at 2012-08-14 10:35 am (UTC)
norsepaw
Aug. 14th, 2012 11:36 am (UTC)
She wrote a journal to tell her side of the story.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3754103/
kjorteo
Aug. 14th, 2012 12:17 pm (UTC)
That ... really isn't all that illuminating, either. That's just a string of completely unsubstantiated "he was harassing me, and I tried to work on his picture but he just kept harassing me" claims. Given that some artists out there are quite creative in interpreting absolutely everything in the way of "so whatever happened to that commission I paid for a year ago" as harassment, but some spoiled and entitled commissioners really are that bad and would make claims like that perfectly justified, I really can't say anything more without seeing the notes and judging for myself. I mean, at least the OP here was able to prove through screenshots that an exchange between these two even happened.

There is hope with the last sentence, though:

"After he threatened to post me to artist beware i blocked him after telling him he would no longer recive a refund and have filled out a post to Artists beware because i wanted my side to be told if he posted."

If she actually filed her own post here as well, and it's informative enough to get approved and shed new light on the matter, then this may get interesting, yet.

Edit: Okay, admittedly, the OP's link to the directory full of screenshots has what could possibly be the entire conversation in there, though it's a little hard to penetrate considering that they appear to be in absolutely no order whatsoever. I may try to piece them together later, when I'm less busy.

Edited at 2012-08-14 12:23 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - kerstin_orion - Aug. 14th, 2012 02:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - keaalu - Aug. 14th, 2012 05:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
dreamerdragoon
Aug. 14th, 2012 12:32 pm (UTC)
Hmm. Artist has a very vague and unprofessional ToS. Commissioner was quite abrupt and persistent, but at no point really demanding anything other than reasonable things for a commission. I certainly didn't read any harassment into the notes. Reasonable business transaction ultimatums are not 'threats'.

If a buyer is adamant about a concrete deadline, and you cannot possibly give one because of your circumstances, then the professional thing to do is bow out of the transaction via a refund and go your separate ways. It's also not advisable to pick up commissions as a quick source of insta-cash - do NOT spend commission money until the commission is well underway, if not completed, unless you can make the money back quickly enough for a sudden refund, or have some other contingency pot. You never know what's going to happen to either you or the buyer that might result in a commission transaction needing an abrupt end. It seems like this is such a common cause of commission problems on AB.
(Deleted comment)
ljmydayaway
Aug. 14th, 2012 02:32 pm (UTC)
I can sympathize with not being able to get a small amount of cash together - especially if that person is ill. :/ Right now, all of my monies are going to bills. And then I still have to eat! xD It can be difficult to keep even just $5 around for more than a few minutes.
(no subject) - neolucky - Aug. 14th, 2012 09:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - feather_dancer - Aug. 15th, 2012 10:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - neolucky - Aug. 16th, 2012 05:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - feather_dancer - Aug. 16th, 2012 07:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(Screened comment)
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Aug. 16th, 2012 01:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - krazinik - Aug. 16th, 2012 09:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
intj_reflection
Aug. 14th, 2012 01:25 pm (UTC)
I'm going to add my request for more proof since I am also getting the feeling that there is more to the situation than is being shown. While I have seen artists throw around the term "harassment" to rile their fanbase (one of which was trying to use if as an excuse do add a clause regarding termination without repayment to their TOS), they are a minority not the standard.
copper_season
Aug. 14th, 2012 02:06 pm (UTC)
Not enough proof on either side it looks like. One screen shot does not prove your story, OP. Also, the post that the artist made is also extremely vague as well.

At this point I think you're both wrong. You seem pushy and a bit aggressive while the artist seems to have dragged their feet and not given clear deadlines when asked.
ansitru
Aug. 14th, 2012 02:16 pm (UTC)
There are more screenshots in the last link, which may or may not contain the entire conversation.
(no subject) - copper_season - Aug. 14th, 2012 02:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - timoran - Aug. 14th, 2012 08:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Aug. 14th, 2012 08:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - timoran - Aug. 14th, 2012 09:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Aug. 14th, 2012 09:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
ansitru
Aug. 14th, 2012 02:21 pm (UTC)
While I agree that it seems that some info is missing, I don't quite see how it can be all pinned on the commissioner, honestly.

Both the journal she made to defend herself and notes exchanged look a bit like a mess. That and how the artist is looking for people to agree with her in her defense-journal, it makes me think that she may have reacted too harshly to being asked when the commissioner could expect his art.

That being said: OP, your post here (especially the title) are already quite off-putting as you seem to prefer snarking over professionalism in the title. While I can understand that it sucks you're out of your $10, it would work that much more in your favor to just post the entry with a "bland" title of who, what and where.

I also agree with the people who say you aren't quite entitled to a full-refund. You received a sketch already, so a partial refund would be a good option. A full refund, however, would not be since you received part of the work.

That being said: I hope you guys can work this out and I apologize for my TL;DR-post.
ljmydayaway
Aug. 14th, 2012 02:30 pm (UTC)
OP - never buy another commission where you have to pay upfront. You won't be able to work with many artists, but you obviously are not the kind of person who can handle waiting or can deal with people being human and having issues in their life that they can't control. It will save you a lot of headache in the future.

I really don't like the language you used in the notes to her. There's just something off that comes out as seeming very rude and demanding. Claiming she was being unprofessional/giving you a "run around" just because she was being honest and couldn't commit to a solid deadline? It's not unprofessional to be human and have illness or software issues pop-up. It's extremely entitled of you to expect for her to push your commission ahead of everyone else in the queue. The way you commanded a deadline could have been worded a million ways better, and you could have handled the whole situation a lot better.

You don't deserve a full refund. I would have offered you a max of $5, if half the work is already done.

In regards to missing parts of the notes - there's two screencaps missing, 17 and 28. 17 seems like a counting error, but then to miss 28 as well? But since the artist doesn't seem to be shedding much new on the matter, it's hard to say.
ljmydayaway
Aug. 15th, 2012 04:08 am (UTC)
Welp. Huh. The artist did not handle this situation well at all in the end. :/
(Deleted comment)
mrst4nkr
Aug. 14th, 2012 05:09 pm (UTC)
"Several people are saying the commissioner is coming off as abrasive or aggressive. I'm really not seeing that. OP is being short and to the point in my opinion; perhaps not particularly friendly, but they don't *have* to be. I don't see any rudeness from their side in the notes, they may be short with the artist (as in, cold and businesslike) but if I feel an aggressive vibe, it seems to be coming from the artist's replies, not the OP's."

I agree with this.

The whole PROOF image directory was almost invisible to me, and I wasn't skimming this post either. Glad you mentioned it.

I am really annoyed at "ur draing isnt a priority." Even if you have 5 customers in front of someone who is unhappy with the wait, it's not at all hard to reword that into a more polite bit of information. I was also pretty disgusted at "none of my other commissioners seem to have a problem with waiting expecialy do to the circumstances that im currently going threw."
NO. Just not okay.
All that in addition to working against her shady TOS, I think the beware is well warranted.
kayla_la
Aug. 14th, 2012 03:35 pm (UTC)
No matter how abrasive the OP might have been (I haven't read the notes), the artist can not simply go 'no art AND no refund for you!'. It sounds like she had originally agreed to a full refund, so that is what she should give, regardless of having done work.

While it is true that the OP could have been more friendly, it's also true that he's not required to be. He's not obligated to care about the artist's circumstances regarding a business transaction. Not that I'm saying it isn't preferable if he does/is.

For me, the beware against the artist is the fact that she thinks it's okay to keep someone's money and not give them art if she has decided they're a meanieface. This is theft. The beware against the OP would simply be 'Could be abrasive, impatient'. Theft is a bigger deal than that, to me. Currently, I would sooner work with the OP than the artist.

That said, it's very possible something is still missing here. My opinion is based purely on this post. That the artist is merely taking his money and running is very damning.
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