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Ishara

This is a bit of an odd situation, a suspected attempt at swindling me and when I refused them, he (female character, male player) became abusive and publicly committed libel against me. I hope this qualifies, I just wanna warn people to watch their step around this person.

I'm afraid I have limited proof for this one because almost all of the discussion happened on Tapestries; it's an adult muck (sort of like a chat client, but with rooms and player descriptions etc.) and has a policy against reposting content from the muck to protect people's privacy. But if Ishara sees this and agrees that I can post my literal logs, it'd be allowed and I'd happily do so.

September 2011 I advertised some Iron Artist commissions on a bulletin board in a popular public gathering place. One of the people who responded was "Ishara". He wanted several commissions. I spent 2 hours answering his questions and he decided to get 4 commissions; two forms of the same character, two outfits each. We agreed young form would be in her late teens, since I don't draw naked kiddies.
He sent me an e-mail. He noted that payment might be delayed, via the muck I said it was fine. Later he prompted me for preliminaries, I told him I'd start as soon I got payment, since my TOS (which I showed him) states that I want full payment in advance for commissions under €50,- and the Iron Artist commissions are €30,-

He said he'd pay and I didn't hear from him again.
I was a little annoyed that I wasted so much of my time on him and I suspected he was hoping he could have made off with some sketches without paying, but since I hadn't started sketching I figured there was no harm, no foul and I just forgot about him.
Plus, given the chance he just changed his mind and was too embarrassed to just tell me I didn't bother him, even though I saw him around the muck.

Fast forward to a few days ago; I recently opened for some small, cheap commissions and advertised this on the same bulletin board. No prizes for guessing who contacted me.

Seemingly having forgotten the incident a year before he contacted me with the exact same questions as before. I verified that it was the same person by providing some info from their e-mail and told them that, in light of their non-payment I would not take on their commissions.
They replied the next day and told me "Oh well I must have forgot that then." and told me it must have been before he was kicked out of his home which he later cited was for financial reasons; I emphasize, he was negotiating 4x€30,- commissions in a period he became homeless for financial reasons.
He told me that if I couldn't understand his situation that I could take my attitude and find other paying customers and that I was rude for not accepting him as one. But if I wanted to give him a second chance he'd pay me extra this time.

As a note, his initial note asked me for an "estimate" on the commissions despite the fact their price was clearly stated at €5,- But he didn't have a lot of money and had to "budget it in" because he only gets paid once a month.
So does everyone in the Netherlands, not sure what frequency has to do with it but I digress.
I told him it was not up for discussion and blocked him. Thinking that was the last I'd hear of it.

Wrong.

I come into the public area the next day and a friend tells me to look at the bulletin board on which Ishara had posted a lengthy and one-sided diatribe, preceded by the weaksauce disclaimer that he didn't want to make it public, but I didn't "man up". Not sure what I was supposed to "man up" for, but what followed was a sob story about how he lost his job and his home and had no money to live off and how I was a big meanie poopoohead for not accepting his commission. I was short sighted and blah blah good riddance and I'll never contact you again.

I didn't respond in any way and just hung around with friends when Ishara came in and loudly stated on OOC that "she is ignoring Thaily now from this point on".

Wah.

I filed a report with the muck's moderators, since the BB is not supposed to be used to attack people. But like I said before, just want to warn you guys; I'm really glad I didn't start without payment and glad I declined his request for a commission the second time around. His attitude is pretty entitled and generally rotten, plus his stories don't add up.

Edit: Adding proof. The stockades are the place bad muck players go for punishment. Creamwizard is the moderator who handled my report and gave me express permission to publish the stockade record of Ishara's misbehavior and punishment.
.

Update 5 Feb 2015: 3 years after the fact an A_B admin contacts me about this post; Ishara had made several requests of them to edit this post, I suspect this is because I once again advertised a sale on the aforementioned bulletin board. One of these requests I have obliged (changing the file name of a screenshot to remove some minimally identifying information), others I have not. Most notably the request to the admins (and I quote) "That we somehow force you to admit this was all a 'misunderstanding'."

The post is sufficiently anonymized to adhere to LJ's TOS and will stand as is. My recommendation remains that artists avoid this person.

Community Tags:

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 43 comments — Leave a comment )
kerstin_orion
Jun. 4th, 2012 01:31 am (UTC)
It's unfortunate that you can't post a screencap (if you got it) of the bulletin board post he made about you. Perhaps you could see about getting permission from a site admin to post the bulletin board 'cap, at least, considering it was defamation and posted in a more-or-less 'public' place?

Do you have any other correspondence that took place outside of Tapestries? Stuff like this is one reason we encourage folks to keep all business correspondence to email. But then, you know that. ;)
thaily
Jun. 4th, 2012 08:23 am (UTC)
I would love to provide more evidence, and I can ask a moderator for permission, but I very much doubt they'd give it. They've been operating for over a decade with very strict privacy policies. Next time I'll definitely take it to mail right away.

Otherwise I'll just have to depend on my reputation, in past posts I have provided -the entire conversation- where possible, even translating them if needed. I'm a big fan of full disclosure.

If people don't believe me, well, that's their right. Hopefully this person won't think to looking for artists outside of the muck, and the ones on the muck will be able to see the bulletin board or hopefully a stockade message if the wizcore stockades her a few days for the offense.
thaily
Jun. 4th, 2012 06:06 pm (UTC)
Added some proof.
jakejynx
Jun. 4th, 2012 01:51 am (UTC)
While his attitude sure seems to leave a lot to be desired, with no evidence, all anyone can really say is "okay."

Also, no money exchanged hands, and you have zero way of knowing if he had intended to try to scam you. I don't think an AB post was necessary or warranted in this case. It all seems very grudge-y: they posted meanie-pants things about you, so you do the exact same thing, with no evidence, to get back at him. Only in your case it's a more public sphere, which sort of makes it worse. You want to warn about a possible scam attempt, but there's no evidence or even indication, really, that he was attempting to do so.

In short, this seems a bit petty to me.
thaily
Jun. 4th, 2012 08:25 am (UTC)
Even if they didn't intend to scam me the first time, they forgot about the transaction entirely. And I was perfectly willing to let that go, I just didn't want to do the same song and dance again.

But when you tell someone "No" and they shit where you eat, I'd consider that worth a beware. But your mileage may vary.
(no subject) - sigilgoat - Jun. 4th, 2012 08:27 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Jun. 4th, 2012 09:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - jakejynx - Jun. 4th, 2012 08:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
neolucky
Jun. 4th, 2012 02:39 am (UTC)
Frankly he may have decided to back out, and just not bothered to tell you. Annoying as that is, it's common. Move on to the next person and blacklist. I'm not sure it warrants an AB about them, and without any sort of proof outside of your word on the matter, it's just kinda....there. I will admit this has the scent of grudge, and maybe was better left un-posted.

You're assuming he was trying to scam you and posting his name based on just that: An assumption. You're also posting an awful lot of personal drama-info that I don't care to read about. Such as him playing a female character, and his financial trouble. That stuff is pointless and petty, and does little to make you come out in a good light.
kerstin_orion
Jun. 4th, 2012 02:48 am (UTC)
Thaily did leave it alone after they failed to pay for the first proposed commission a year ago. This post is mainly about the person's reaction to being denied a new commission slot ...
(no subject) - radcatastrophe - Jun. 4th, 2012 03:44 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xenafox - Jun. 4th, 2012 04:08 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shiftergoddess - Jun. 4th, 2012 04:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - radcatastrophe - Jun. 4th, 2012 04:40 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - werewolfofwater - Jun. 4th, 2012 04:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xenafox - Jun. 4th, 2012 07:33 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - radcatastrophe - Jun. 4th, 2012 06:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Jun. 4th, 2012 06:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - thaily - Jun. 5th, 2012 06:20 am (UTC) - Expand
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celarania
Jun. 4th, 2012 08:23 am (UTC)
Umm... how is what he posted libel?

You don't have to like it, you may even claim it's harmful to your business, but it sounds like what he posted was true. He's allowed to recount his experience with you from his point of view.

His side of things add up. His rant about losing his job, home, etc. seems to be from the first commission. He's just hurt because you "using" that against him.

To be frank, I'd be miffed at you too if I were him and this whole thing does feel like a bit of grudge especially with your "helpful" comments like "Wah." It seems more like you just want a place to complain about him rather than this being a legit beware.

Had he gotten a free sketch out of you, then yes, beware on him. However, being upset at being blacklisted isn't something that I would consider unreasonable. While I can understand blacklisting him after one dropped commission, I'd still call that a little extreme. This isn't criticizing your right to decline any commission you want (and you should go with your gut if you think he was scamming), only that it's a relatively minor offense, so you'll get some negative feedback on it. In my opinion, it seems like you were more annoyed that he took up your time rather than thinking he'd scam you out of a sketch.

Also, the customer's last name is still pretty obvious in your screenshots; you might want to change that.

Edit: I still can't spell.

Edited at 2012-06-04 03:29 pm (UTC)
celestinaketzia
Jun. 5th, 2012 10:53 pm (UTC)
Going to have to agree with you on this one.
kwolf13
Jun. 5th, 2012 12:30 am (UTC)
A lot of people are saying this is a "grudge post", but frankly I do think that this Beware is necessary. This person seems very irresponsible.

I mean, okay you lost your job, your house, you have no money to live off of...

So why are art Commissions even on your mind? If you have to "budget" to get an art Commission, you should just forget it and use that money to buy yourself food.

I think this kind of Beware is a good way to take a person who could easily become the next Allan, and nip it in the bud before it gets to that point. Because I can easily see how it could.
ansitru
Jun. 5th, 2012 01:27 am (UTC)
"I mean, okay you lost your job, your house, you have no money to live off of...

So why are art Commissions even on your mind? If you have to "budget" to get an art Commission, you should just forget it and use that money to buy yourself food."

This! Art is a luxury, not a necessity, so if you can come up with a sob-story as for why you should get a discount on a commission, then don't get a commission and pay for your damn food and rent.
(no subject) - celarania - Jun. 5th, 2012 05:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ansitru - Jun. 5th, 2012 01:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Jun. 5th, 2012 01:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ansitru - Jun. 5th, 2012 02:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jun. 5th, 2012 06:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ansitru - Jun. 5th, 2012 06:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jun. 5th, 2012 06:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ansitru - Jun. 6th, 2012 11:10 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jun. 6th, 2012 07:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ansitru - Jun. 6th, 2012 07:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jun. 6th, 2012 07:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ansitru - Jun. 6th, 2012 07:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jun. 6th, 2012 08:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Jun. 6th, 2012 08:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
thaily
Jun. 5th, 2012 06:13 am (UTC)
Yeah, I've been dirt poor and it really, really sucked not to have any money to spend on myself for a long, long time. But I didn't buy luxuries, and art is definitely that.

If he was negotiating 120 euro worth of artwork in the same or month before he became homeless due to financial issues?

He was on-line regularly, I'd see him pass by. Plenty of opportunity to go "My financial situation took a turn for the worse, I'll have to hold off on commissions." and I would have wished him well and taken the work the second time around.

But as things stood, I didn't want to deal with him a second time around, especially not for 6 dollars, and preferred to spend my time on customers who had already paid.

So I told him "no" and he flipped out, so I thought I'd warn other people he responds badly to being told "no" at least.
(no subject) - kwolf13 - Jun. 5th, 2012 07:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Jun. 6th, 2012 01:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
( 43 comments — Leave a comment )

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