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Advice post

Never thought I would post here! This is the most amazing epic debacle I've ever seen in my life, and I need some advice. Technically I got burned out of money I was supposed to be paid, but more importantly at this point an entire convention of people are being burned out of money. I would like to leave names out for now, I don't want to put people on blast but I can later depending on what happens.

Can someone open a paypal dispute on an intangible object they paid for past the dispute period, like 9 months ago? If it's a large group of people *100-200 people* that open up a dispute at the same time will it freeze their paypal or will it not matter because they bought tickets in some cases a very long time ago. The fear is them taking all the money and running and the goal is to stop it.

The deal is a convention that was supposed to be happening next weekend was cancelled. A week ago. How/why/who was at fault for the cancellation is up to interpretation. The fact is they didn't fill the room block the said they would. Eventually I will encourage everyone involved to post an A_B on these people for the sake of future dealers/artists/attendees.

Any advice I can take to these poor people who I'm pretty sure will have to fight tooth and nail to see any money back would be really appreciative.
Artist's beware has moved!
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https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
xisidereal
May. 25th, 2012 01:47 am (UTC)
I think I know about which con this is, and I am sad to see it happen to so many people :<
familliaraver
May. 25th, 2012 05:00 am (UTC)
It's really disappointing. It gave me a sad.
(Screened comment)
kerstin_orion
May. 28th, 2012 04:01 am (UTC)
As this was written up as an advice post (with no proof), we are keeping the name of the convention out of it, so I'm screening this comment.
growly
May. 25th, 2012 01:52 am (UTC)
If there's any doubt in your mind they will send a timely refund, yes you should dispute it through Paypal. Conventions usually have a lot of publicly accessible info, right? The others should try legal action if they didn't pay by credit card (if they did pay with card, they could call their banks for a chargeback).
familliaraver
May. 25th, 2012 05:01 am (UTC)
That's true, they could call their own banks for a charge back. I didn't even think of that!
skulldog
May. 25th, 2012 01:56 am (UTC)
Yes, I'm pretty certain I've seen cases of intangible items being disputed out of the 45 day limit, and buyer getting money back before.

You need to contact Paypal and let them know the story (i.e you paid for use of space at an event that never happened, and no refund was given), calling will help get that done faster. If you can get a few people to all bring this up, Paypal will look into it as a whole.

That really sucks, hoping you guys can get every cent back.
(Deleted comment)
familliaraver
May. 25th, 2012 04:58 am (UTC)
I think that is just what I will do. I have access to 100 percent of all pre-reg e-mail lists. I've been paid up +colateral to get paid back what they still owe so I'm not worried about me, I just want the attendees to get back what they deserve. They cancelled the convention like a week before it was supposed to happen.

(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - familliaraver - May. 25th, 2012 05:35 am (UTC) - Expand
epiceternity
May. 25th, 2012 08:10 am (UTC)
I've got a feeling that you/the group would have to take it to small claims court as so much time has pasted.
Also on the paperwork, did it have any mention of what happens in the event of cancellation of the convention?
familliaraver
May. 25th, 2012 01:30 pm (UTC)
As far as my end is concerned (not an atendee but a contracted worker) there has been an offer of settlement on the contract but no response.

As far as the attendees are concerned, the convention has actually shut down their website. But what used to be on the rules page was

"Refunds will be given up until April 23rd, 2012. After April 23rd, 2012 NO refunds will be given, no exceptions.

Full refunds will be available up to 60 days after the date of purchase provided that it is not past April 23rd, 2012."

And they cancelled the convention on may 17th with the convention this weekend. That's what makes me think they did it on purpose. They had to have known this was gonna happen.

I'm gonna try and contact everyone over the next 3 days and give paypal time to work and then talk lawsuit. I think if the chairs see the people organize they will work harder to prevent any further losses. Right now I think they are probably thinking all of these people will just give up.
epiceternity
May. 25th, 2012 02:13 pm (UTC)
hmmm, it does make it extremely difficult if you/ others basically signed a no refund contact, it will count a lot against you. However, it does also sound suspiciously scam worthy.
I think you could do with legal help on it if you can get it, esp with that no refund agreement. I don't know what the convention was or what your money was towards but if it was art related, then there are some place that do free legal help for artists-
http://www.starvingartistslaw.com/help/volunteer%20lawyers.htm
http://moolelo.net/2012/01/11/free-legal-services-for-artists-and-arts-organizations/
http://www.law-arts.org/
If it wasn't art related there may be some other places that offer something similar (i'm afraid I don't know any off the top of my head ^^)
(no subject) - shukivengeance - May. 26th, 2012 05:42 am (UTC) - Expand
pinkpuppybelly
May. 25th, 2012 01:47 pm (UTC)
I would like to know what con it was c_c
shukivengeance
May. 26th, 2012 05:48 am (UTC)
Since this was approved as an advice post and not a beware I'm personally a little uncomfortable with that last edit. If my fellow mods are fine with the name staying up I will submit to their judgement but as-is it feels a tad inappropriate to me to change an advice post into a beware via editing in identification after the fact. A seperate beware post would be legitimate with some supporting evidence provided imo.
sigilgoat
May. 26th, 2012 06:28 am (UTC)
I'm in agreement. This needs some proof before it becomes slanderous (I know, libel in print, blahblah).

If you wanted to name names, you really should have submitted this as a beware instead of an advice.
oceandezignz
May. 26th, 2012 06:30 am (UTC)
Thirded. Please submit a more official beware, OP!
kerstin_orion
May. 26th, 2012 01:59 pm (UTC)
I hesitate to add to the mod pile, but I felt it necessary to add that yes, Shukivengeance is correct; by editing in the name of the offending party, you are essentially changing an advice post into a beware. As we require a significantly higher level of evidence for bewares, this edit is inappropriate.

Please remove the name of the convention from your post. If you wish to make a full beware, please submit a new post with dates and screenshots of evidence.
(Screened comment)
(no subject) - oceandezignz - May. 26th, 2012 02:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - familliaraver - May. 26th, 2012 02:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
skanrashke
May. 26th, 2012 03:05 pm (UTC)
Something on this scale = legal action can actually, be sucessully performed. It's a last ditch thing, though. If the guys responsible won't refund, paypal won't refund, etc.. because the legal fees will probably eat all 100-200 people's $30 reg. You'd also need at least 20 other people to come foreward and say 'yeah, these guys swindled us'.
familliaraver
May. 28th, 2012 04:10 am (UTC)
You are totally right. And I didn't realize what direction this was going. I probably should have waited a few more weeks before jumping the gun. But I do appreciate the super helpful advice.
(Deleted comment)
familliaraver
Jun. 8th, 2012 06:52 pm (UTC)
There have been a handful of people who have gotten partial refunds through paypal, maybe the 20-25 people who bought badges late enough and figured out what was going on early enough to do something about it.. for whatever reason I'm happy something happened. I could right a novel about what I think about her but that is neither here nor there.

Information has been sparse from the remaining people (person now I guess) involved. The problem is....my hands are tied. I really shouldn't have said anything at all about the situation and in hindsight I should have not put them on blast like this if I wasn't willing to lay down some solid evidence. I was just really dumb and angry (40 hours making badges will do that). Maybe I can turn these 3 thousand badges into a cool art installation or a chandelier for my bedroom. I doubt they will ever pay for them. I will try my best to make something positive out of this and this post was at least helpful to bring my brain back into reality about it all.
(Deleted comment)
familliaraver
Jun. 10th, 2012 03:13 pm (UTC)
Ha, it doesn't matter if she chooses to address the situation because the situation will address her, and it is. People are getting refunds; even people who paid past the time frame you supposedly can get refunds. Paypal actually will just keep refunding people and her account will keep going in the red and they will freeze anything attached to the paypal account. When people talk to paypal about refunds and after a month the seller doesn't address the problem they are refunded. I know this because, well, I just do. I can't tell you how I know that I would rather just say it's heresay..it's not like I can see her transactions or something lol. How could I possibly see those?

I don't know why she chose to fire her entire staff. Firing the entire staff doesn't take their name off contracts. I don't know how she made it through that certain Texas convention without being burned at the stake. I guess that there is either enough people that care about her or enough people who don't care at all. I also know she is a good person. Sending out sporadic e-mails to artists and attendees at random isn't really cutting it, or trying to stall everyone into not asking for their money back. Whatever.

(Deleted comment)
familliaraver
Oct. 3rd, 2012 06:23 am (UTC)
Re: follow up
When I wrote the beware I was kind of laying in a pile of badges and pretty super angry. It's not a class action lawsuit yet and I'm trying my best to gather anyone who might still have an outstanding refund due, but there are so many artists and dealers it's impossible to find them all. The registration end of it, well, let's just say first year events aren't going to get services so easy anymore.

If you do happen to know any artists,dealers or attendees that haven't filed their paperwork with the attorney general hit up the Facebook page or note me for emails. I know they read this and they know who I am, that's fine. I'm not here to start drama.
familliaraver
Oct. 3rd, 2012 06:24 am (UTC)
Re: follow up
If you want to put them on blast in a seperate post and you lost money/willing to post screenshots;do it
(Deleted comment)
familliaraver
Oct. 3rd, 2012 03:22 pm (UTC)
Re: follow up
I can't do that. Your friend should come here with screenshots and PayPal receipts as well as information for others that may not know what's going on because the website and forum is shut down. I wasn't directly out money. I was essentially paid for what I did by who I work for, not anyone directly involved with the production of the event. Like I was outsourced. The persons or people that are above me aren't really keen on giving up any information so I'm gagged in so many words.

Either way I wouldn't have access to lists of dealers and artists still owed money because that information wasn't really released to me. It's funny tho even other local conventions are getting blowback from this. They have had to come out and be like hey, we weren't involved in this!
( 26 comments — Leave a comment )

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