?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Artists Beware: Xinnova

WHO&WHERE: Xinnova2 on Furaffinity.
WHAT: Digital character sheet.
WHEN: Started December 22, officially terminated via full refund March 23.
PROOF:
- Complete exchange of notes in a text file. There's 11 pages, I'll write summary below. Also the links are borked because A. cut&paste from FA and B. I removed the sketches from my server because Xinnova need not access them anymore.
- [NSFW, feral bits] Thumbnail of sketched character sheet. To provide proof that I did draw the commission and go to this point of near-completion. Forgive the size and watermark, I do not wish to provide this person with further images for his perusal.
- Screenshot of full refund.
SUMMARY: Customer doesn't know what he wants, or at the very least does not communicate this to the artist. Despite claiming that he is a writer and that this character sheet will "define me spiritually" he does not write a conclusive description of what he wants, hemming and hawing over what he wants and then becoming increasingly abusive when the artist indicates her boundaries in accordance with the TOS they agreed to. Upon a full refund the customer posts a harassing journal and he and his friends make libelous statements and insults, suggesting customer sue the artist and wishing physical harm on the artist.


Upon completing another character sheet commission, Xinnova contacted me about getting a similar commission from me. I showed him my TOS which he said, and I quote "That's actually very reasonable" and "I will try not to make too many changes, if I do though I will pay the fee". We agreed on $100 for the sheet, half paid up front with a deadline of 6 months.

The transaction started out pleasantly, though early on I realized I had to drag a description of the character I was supposed to draw out of this guy. I thought that he was just a little enthusiastic and disorganized and that I could work with him; I've worked with customers before who sort of knew what they wanted and helped them along to come to a satisfactory end result. No biggie. I thought.
I told him to take a day to make a list of things he wanted instead of sending lots of separate notes, and when he sent notes asking me to add things after I had started (and shown him) sketches I didn't make a fuss and did.

The trouble started when I showed him the third sketch; the first was a side view, he asked for changes (rounded the muzzle/added bandana/number of teats/placement of teats/size of paws/shape of tail-mouth) which I applied.

Upon being shown the second sketch he approved the changes, asking if I could curve the horns back a bit more, which I did. He specifically complimented me on the revised tail-mouth; initially described as being shaped like a rose-bud that opens into a worm-like maw with teeth. I drew the closed tail mouth as a rose bud, with a bulb below the bud and the little green outer leaves.
I told him I was checking off the side-view as approved and listed the remaining work, thinking we had a decent jump off point for the character design. He told me he was looking forward to the results.

He asks if he can still add a necklace. I added the necklace in the fourth sketch.
Upon being presented with the third sketch, he tells me the previously changed and approved muzzle "doesn't feel right at all". He also asks me to change the previously changed and approved closed tail-mouth design. I apply both of these changes.
He asks me to match the size of the paws in the turn-around, which are already matched in size; I put the sketches side to side to ensure that they were, before I presented him with the sketch. So, I can't change it because the paws are already matched up.
He asks me to change the teats/pouch, I apply this change.
He tells me the cock has a knot; the cock is not shown, just the sheath. He did not ask for a cock, so I just drew the sheath. He says he has a sheath, which is great, because I drew a sheath. Again, can't change that.
He tells me he wants the anus included from the view from below, except you wouldn't be able to see the anus from that angle, especially with the vagina mound in the way. So I can't change that because quite frankly, it would make it look like I don't know the proper placement of the anus, which he seems to believe. He "helpfully" tells me the anus "is located in the common area of the tail base".
He tells me to mind the shape of the serpent heads, which is fine. It was a messy sketch but I'm quite familiar with ancient Egyptian art, that's not a problem.

Current count of changes is 11 changes applied spread over 3 opportunities for Xinnova to provide feedback. On the 3 items I couldn't change I explained why I could not.

I send him the fourth sketch, which includes close-ups of the genitalia, including a close-up of the anus in it's proper place. At this point, his unclear waffling on the muzzle and tail is some cause for concern for me and I tell him that this is his last batch of free revisions. I tell him to take his time in deciding what he wants to see changed and that if he wants more changes, he'll have to pay extra for the additional labor, as stated in my TOS which he agreed to.

I had a feeling that otherwise, I was going to go back and forth on the muzzle and tail for a long time, if not on other parts as well if he suddenly disapproved of his previously approved changes. Keep in mind that he has currently paid $6,25 per element of the character sheet. As a professional, I can only spend so much time on a $6,25 sketch.

He sends a short note, telling me he has 6 months? I set a 6 month deadline for my work, and we're already 3 months into it. But I didn't tell him he only had a day, just to take a day to think about it, since his other replies asking for changes were sent fairly quickly and then promptly disapproved of again next time 'round, I thought maybe he thought I was trying to rush things and that he didn't have time to think about it.
I tell him he can take his time and give him some hints on how to put together clear reference material. I figured that, even if he could not find good images or couldn't "redline" the sketch, that he could write out something more detailed, as he lists himself as being a writer.

This is where the transaction sours, in retrospect, pretty much beyond repair.

I try and remain civil despite the fact he calls my experience and professionalism into question, tells me I should have done the research(?), that he only asked for a few small changes, that I refused to change things (but when prompted, doesn't tell me what I refused), that I'm not giving him opinions or options etc.

I give him a play-by-play response telling him that he needs to tell me what he wants or else I can't draw it. I restate that I want him to take his time and tell me exactly what he wants so that I can change it and hopefully bring the transaction to a satisfactory conclusion.

He goes on about how this commission is unique and he can't just describe it despite the fact that he is A. a writer, or says he is and B. he claims this character sheet will "define me spiritually". Despite the fact he is not an artist he tells me sketching is the easiest part of a commission and something about experience, which he doesn't have as an artist, so I don't even know where he was going with that; at this point I'm just confused and uncertain where this hostility is coming from. Stress and illness can only account for so much, I've never had a customer get angry before when I ask them what they want. But he feels like I'm cutting his head off by asking him what he wants so I can draw it for him.

I initially read the note but don't reply, assuming that with time he'd send me the info I needed and we could get this business sorted. I try to go on with my day and do unrelated art, but I'm distracted and irritable and I realize that I was just waiting for the other passive aggressive shoe to drop.
I wanted to bring the commission to a good conclusion, despite the brouhaha, but realized that in order to do so, I'd have to let him bully me into, essentially, work for peanuts. Well, smaller peanuts. Or the burnt, shriveled and stale bits of peanuts left in the bottom of the bag of peanuts.
And that I would hate myself for it.

So I terminated the transaction, as stated I am able to do in the TOS he agreed to. I even gave him a full refund. Then I told him that he could make no claim to the sketches, could not use them for anything and that I desired no further contact.

I saw that he had read the note and he did not reply.
I thought that would be the end of it and I was quite happy to leave it at that.

That said, I still had a half-finished character sheet, which I own fully and was out about $50 of labor. Trying to recoup some of my losses I changed the design around to no longer resemble Xinnova's design (which according to him, I had failed to approximate anyway) and put it up as a pre-sketched character sheet/adoptable. AFTER I had removed all mention of Xinnova from my account, which was just in my commission list in my journals anyway. I did in no way refer, link or name him anywhere.

To which [possibly NSFW, tame but feral bits]he promptly outed himself as the uncooperative and abusive customer in the very first comment.
Notice his friends also joining in.
I blocked them all.
He then posts a harassing journal linking directly to my submission, breaking the Terms of Service of FurAffinity.
When a moderator deletes his post and gives him a warning, he complains about how he was just defending his good name which would have never been jeopardized if he had dropped the matter when he was refunded.

You'll notice the blatant discrepancies between his communication with me and what he tells his friends: That I was insulting and attacking him, that he only asked for 4-5 small changes and that I didn't do half, that I have "butchered" his name publicly, that he wasn't initially prepared to pay extra for additional labor in case he needed numerous changes and so forth.

Interestingly, there's apparently 3-4 of his friends who filed Trouble Tickets about me/my pre-sketched commission, despite they were never even peripherally involved with this transaction. Harassment, name-calling, insults and the like ensue, all based on what little skewed information they had.

Which brings us to this post.


In conclusion: Do not work with this person.
He doesn't know what he wants and gets angry when you don't either and refuse to do endless revisions until he makes up his mind, which might be never; he wants other people to define him spiritually, which is just never going to happen. It's not worth it and neither is the resulting abuse and libel he uses to whip his friends into an ignorant frenzy. Friends, whom I should add, who would also probably be best avoided if these statements are indicative of their true nature.

I'll probably get more abuse and harassment for this post, but I honestly think it's worth it if I can save at least one other artist from this frustration and aggravation; You are better than this, do not work with him.

Community Tags:

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 125 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>
pinkpuppybelly
Mar. 26th, 2012 08:17 pm (UTC)
+1 for my blacklist!
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:33 am (UTC)
You should really see both sides of the story before assuming this person is actually telling the truth.
(no subject) - pinkpuppybelly - Apr. 29th, 2012 01:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
likeshine
Mar. 26th, 2012 08:19 pm (UTC)

wow D:
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:38 am (UTC)
Wow indeed, I didn't even know that this guy was going to do something like this. I didn't even get a chance to tell my side of anything, yet everyone automatically judges me based on his words alone. awesome.
(Deleted comment)
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:33 am (UTC)
Unless he was only telling his side of the story.. and not revealing the FULL truth.
tanginello
Mar. 26th, 2012 08:26 pm (UTC)
That's a real shame and I'm sorry you had to deal with such a difficult customer. I have worked with Drakion (Xinnova's boyfriend) and he was a pretty pleasant customer. I guess opposites attract!

Beware well warranted.
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:36 am (UTC)
I love how I wasn't even told about this, that I wasn't even given a chance to tell my side. Seems to be like someone was just upset cause they couldn't give me what I asked..

Never once did I ask for a refund, I was willing to even end it on a good note by letting him keep the money I had paid him.
mahajarabali
Mar. 26th, 2012 08:47 pm (UTC)
O_O It's those types of customers that give me the willies. Thanks for the warning!
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:37 am (UTC)
A warning, rather I feel it was an impolite gesture towards someone who wasn't even given a chance to defend themselves from behind the back harassment.
duster
Mar. 26th, 2012 08:49 pm (UTC)
Hooooly crap never doing anything for that guy. His behavior is totally unwarranted and his friends getting involved makes him look even worse.
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:40 am (UTC)
There's a reason for my friends getting involved, He harassed me in the info of the submission on FA. Friends saw that, did what friends do.

Him putting me on here was just a way for him to kick me while I was down. >.>
china_kitty
Mar. 26th, 2012 08:51 pm (UTC)
Holy cow! I can't believe this person's behavior and then the friends and fans white knight him.

Sorry you had to deal with a difficult customer. I had someone who was like that too.
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:41 am (UTC)
Sooo just because someone says something makes it 100% true?
aerospiritual
Mar. 26th, 2012 08:54 pm (UTC)
...wow.
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:41 am (UTC)
Imagine how I felt when I read this tonight before going to bed. Thanks to a random friend googling my name too, wasn't even told this was even here.

Funny how low people will go to kick someone when they are already down eh?
(no subject) - aerospiritual - Apr. 29th, 2012 06:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
starcharmer
Mar. 26th, 2012 08:59 pm (UTC)
I'm laughing so hard at starting a petition to "secure your rights as an FA user." Is he serious? He does realize that websites aren't democracies? Your "rights" are spelled out right in the ToS and AUP, as well as any artist's ToS you choose to commission, fella. You agreed to both.

There are several very clear differences between your "unfair" treatment of him and what he was trying to do to you, yet he's trying to make them out to be the same.

Ugh, echoing everyone else...blocked him and his friends.

Speaking of his friends, I also got a chuckle out of the one that was offering to sign his "partition." :P
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:45 am (UTC)
The petition was just something to help catch the attention of Dragoneer. Petitions have moved mountains, if you don't know your history then go and look.

Also I was doing that so people cant be allowed to indirectly harass someone. I guess knowing both sides of the story is ridiculous right?

My friends acted on their own after seeing the indirect insult that clearly targeted me. They like any friend wished him to take it off his info.
(no subject) - starcharmer - Apr. 29th, 2012 07:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xinnova - Apr. 29th, 2012 08:52 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - starcharmer - Apr. 29th, 2012 08:54 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xinnova - Apr. 29th, 2012 09:10 am (UTC) - Expand
epiceternity
Mar. 26th, 2012 09:31 pm (UTC)
he claims this character sheet will "define me spiritually"
Oooookaaaay...*backs away slowly*. The artist is drawing a ref sheet dude, not writing a holy bible.

Thanks for the well deserved beware, that guy clearly has a warped sense of reality.
thaily
Mar. 26th, 2012 10:13 pm (UTC)
Yeah, when I read "this is a drawing that will define me spiritually" it began to dawn on me that this was not going to end well, no matter how much I wanted it to.
(no subject) - xinnova - Apr. 29th, 2012 07:47 am (UTC) - Expand
(Screened comment)
(no subject) - kerstin_orion - Mar. 27th, 2012 01:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tieran - Mar. 27th, 2012 02:12 am (UTC) - Expand
hazelfyrn
Mar. 26th, 2012 09:46 pm (UTC)
:/ I don't understand commissioners like this.

If he'd just...given you a list of the things he wanted...
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 07:52 am (UTC)
Thing is I gave him ref pics, and wrote him enough info for someone to get a clear picture from it. The fact that he couldn't grasp what I was trying to get had me asking him to change 'small' things.. Such as the size of paws, the shape of the tail. Nothing that made him spend more then a few minutes sketching.

I also didn't ask for a refund, I know artists work hard and need paid like everyone else. He gave me the refund without even trying to talk to me.

He even insulted me in the info when he changed my idea's that I gave him to turn around and sell them for profit...

So who's really the bad guy here? >.>
(no subject) - hazelfyrn - Apr. 30th, 2012 12:04 am (UTC) - Expand
celestinaketzia
Mar. 26th, 2012 09:46 pm (UTC)
Whoa, he completely missed what you were trying to tell him with the refs. It isn't that you couldn't look up the ref, it's that he has such a specific vision in his mind that showing a pic will only do it justice.

Just aaarrrgggg. Beware well warranted.

However, I will note that I probably wouldn't have mentioned anything about where the sketch came from in the description. Given his behavior, I am not surprised at all that he got sparked. Maybe something like "a rejected commission sketch" would have sufficed. Otherwise it just reads on the passive aggressive side.
thaily
Mar. 26th, 2012 09:51 pm (UTC)
I feel that if I hadn't mentioned where the sketch came from, and someone bought and it and then found out (possibly because Xinnova recognized it and started harassing them) they might be understandably unhappy. Better they know what the deal is so they can make a decision knowing all the facts.
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Mar. 26th, 2012 09:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Mar. 26th, 2012 10:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xinnova - Apr. 29th, 2012 07:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - corriezodori - Apr. 29th, 2012 07:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
shukivengeance
Mar. 26th, 2012 09:50 pm (UTC)
I'm honestly baffled. What "research" could you possibly do that would tell you what is inside another person's head?
thaily
Mar. 26th, 2012 10:15 pm (UTC)
Mindreading, obviously. That's why I'm charging minimum wage, because I have paranormal powers.
(no subject) - tieran - Mar. 26th, 2012 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xinnova - Apr. 29th, 2012 07:59 am (UTC) - Expand
enter_data_here
Mar. 26th, 2012 10:50 pm (UTC)
Wow, beware well warranted. Gonna avoid some of his friends too, what nasty attitudes.
xinnova
Apr. 29th, 2012 08:01 am (UTC)
Nasty attitudes are only nasty when provoked. Do you not think the artist did something to warrant said behavior?

I'm still trying to figure out who the real Immature one is here, the artist for attacking me behind my back repeatedly and mocking me.. Or the people replying without even knowing both sides of the story.
megumi_kitten
Mar. 26th, 2012 10:52 pm (UTC)
All my hugs to you.
thaily
Mar. 27th, 2012 06:40 am (UTC)
Haha, aw, thank you ;)
(no subject) - megumi_kitten - Mar. 27th, 2012 03:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>
( 125 comments — Leave a comment )

Profile

A_B icon
artists_beware
Commissioner & Artist, Warning & Kudos Community
Artists Beware

Community Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com