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Beware: Sin.

WHO: Sin.

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sin.

WHAT: Originally, a commission of 10 chibi's. Eventually changed to 2 sketch pages for artist convenience. Changed again to a single piece for artists convenience.

WHEN: November 15th, 2010 - January 12, 2012

PROOF: The original agreement on November 15th, 2010 where Sin. accepted $40 for 10 fully colored pictures.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence2.png

EXPLAIN: Originally, Sin. was hard up for money and needed quick buck to help her out with some things. I had some expendable cash and had recently discovered her, so I thought I could help out and get some art along the way. By November 20th she had accepted my ideas and was to begin work on the pieces ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence3.png ).

From that date, all of the interaction between Sin. and myself took place over messengers where it was easier to quickly communicate ideas. She finished pieces from others who commissioned her from the same journal as I did and even started taking more commissions both from journals and livestreams. She claimed that she would work on mine, but I never was shown any progress nor would she work on them in public view for me to see. I was careful not to be belligerent, however, and did not push her too harshly to finish them. Now and then I would reminder her that she still owed me things only to be met with "Oh I know! I haven't forgotten about you!", but it yielded no actual results.

For the next few months this went on, asking for updates and reminding that she still owed me work while she continued to take and finish others commissions right before my eyes, but she said that so many pictures were too difficult. So I agreed for the sake of getting SOMETHING for my money to condense it all down into two sketch pages instead of 10 fully colored pieces. This was completely for Sin.'s convenience. More months pass and despite claims of having a full page completed, no progress was shown physically. Eventually after a lapse of contact I sent a note to ask how the sketches were going at which point she admitted to being behind and opted instead to give me 5 pieces of art fully colored ( HALF of the original amount ) for my troubles. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence4.png And http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence5.png ).

I stated that I would tell her precisely what I wanted at a later date, since I wasn't exactly sure at this point what to commission. Things stayed this way for a couple of weeks until my girlfriend and I chose what we wanted. The idea of a five person commission, despite her request to only have 3 per pictures, was given to her with the perk of it being the only picture she would have to complete to fulfill her duty to me. At first she accepted, but once confronted with the idea of drawing it decided it would be too difficult and backed down. Several more days pass and I allow my girlfriend some of the slots that I didn't know how to use to get a reference sheet. She knew the details better than I would, so I had her contact Sin. directly. Sin. denied my girlfriend without attempting to contact me based on the fact that they were my slots.

This all leads to January 12, 2012 when she sent me this note with no provocation from myself. Needless to say, I was surprised to see it pop up in my inbox. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence6.png ). Of course, having been as patient as I was ( even recognized by herself at one point ) this felt like a kick in the gut. Finally we work out the deal to do the original idea that I had come up with for the 5 person commission and that would fulfill her obligation to me.

She insisted on doing this commission immediately to get it out of the way. I had things to take care of and it was getting very late, so my girlfriend handled the details for me. Immediately she continued her rude attitude and made things very difficult to the very end.

It is obvious from looking at the piece that her normal care was not put into it and it was finished in under an hour after over a year of waiting. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/beecarcommission.png ). No background, sloppy lines, hardly adding ANY detail.

Finally, as soon as she finished the commission, she posted a journal about her experience with "us" and showing her true emotion and attitude. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence8.png ).

I do a lot of commissioning and this is the worst experience I have ever had. Stay FAR away from this artist.

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Comments

( 135 comments — Leave a comment )
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shynanigans
Jan. 17th, 2012 05:48 am (UTC)
Do you have screen shots of your replies to her? I somehow don't feel as if the entire thing is being told. The 6th screen shot is really snippy, but I have to agree that -you- were her customer, not your significant other, an thus it would have been proper for you to keep contact with Sin on the matter. Understandable that you were busy, but was there no way for your girlfriend to send you details, and then you send them to the artist? One feels that dealing with third parties in a transaction, especially online, is kind of shady and inconvenient if not agreed on beforehand.
starcharmer
Jan. 17th, 2012 05:54 am (UTC)
I was thinking the same thing, but I wouldn't fly off the handle like that if asked to speak to a third party -especially- if the commissioner had been so polite/understanding/patient with me up to that point.

It's simple to state, you know..."I would rather just deal with you, so if possible could you have [friend/SO] email/note you what they'd like and you can pass on the information to me?" Seems kind of like an extreme overreaction on her part unless the girlfriend was screaming obscenities at her unprovoked. :P

And then that journal...lol -watch. No grievance should be aired publicly in that fashion. A legit warning, bring it on, but that was just...catty.
(no subject) - shynanigans - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - starcharmer - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeiwolf - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:54 am (UTC) - Expand
Mod post - shukivengeance - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:56 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mod post - jeiwolf - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:57 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mod post - shukivengeance - Jan. 17th, 2012 07:40 am (UTC) - Expand
lackoflollies
Jan. 17th, 2012 05:48 am (UTC)
Wow..
(Deleted comment)
mpd_84
Jan. 17th, 2012 06:12 am (UTC)
Your link isn't working either. It appears that the "." is being counted as a normal period instead of part of the link itself. Looks like people will have to enter it manually onsite.
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Jan. 17th, 2012 11:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
crimson_flygon
Jan. 17th, 2012 07:30 am (UTC)
Dying to know what in the world your girlfriend said between her contacting you with "You are so patient thank you so much <3" and the unexpected rant of random all caps and bolds because SHE isn't TAKING THIS any MORE. <<<EMPHASIS ARROWS<<<< Looked like a bad situation being handled "OK" until the sudden turn for the worst. Unfortunate to see it transformed into a piece of art you can't be satisfied with and the artist writing an infamous shoot-themselves-in-the-foot journal. I'm sure it would be informative to see what your girlfriend/you said to her. Also when she notes that one of you made a journal about it and deleted it, any info on that you could provide? From this perspective she does seem to be definitely in the wrong and acting entirely unprofessionally, it'd be fair to see the "whole story" though, it feels like a bit is missing when we've only seen what she said.
beepuppy
Jan. 17th, 2012 08:19 am (UTC)
Hey! :3

I was the one to make a journal; I was stressed and made a quick journal noting to people that I didn't appreciate being gossiped to about people I'm close friends with. I deleted it when I realized that it could be misconstrued to be a drama hook.

When I questioned whether she would be okay with using Carrot's slots for the reference sheet auction she'd offered (which I'd won), she responded with anger and defensiveness,(this was during a livestream which I eventually left. Unfortunately I didn't save the log.) stating that she'd offered that auction for quick cash and needed the money now. I was rather taken aback, and told her that was fine (as I've been in that spot myself many a time) and that I would have been fine just paying for the reference sheet outright, I'd simply been checking to see if that was okay.

Her response of that she didn't care whether or not I wanted it was very snippy, and if I remember correctly, she even made mention of that she was "sick of dealing with me". I shrugged it off with a "Whatever, dude. It's not a big deal. We'll figure it out later." I then left the stream, well aware that she was angry and not wanting to further an already stressful situation for the both of us.

Her response was to hide my comments on the auction submission and immediately tell the next highest bidder that he'd won without questioning me on whether I actually wanted the reference sheet or not. I didn't comment, deciding it wasn't worth the stress. Shortly thereafter, she sent the note above to Carrot.

Edit: it was the auction submission, not a journal, that I'd bid on and been hidden on.

Edited at 2012-01-17 08:46 am (UTC)
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Jan. 17th, 2012 11:49 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - beepuppy - Jan. 17th, 2012 05:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Jan. 17th, 2012 07:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - beepuppy - Jan. 17th, 2012 07:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Jan. 17th, 2012 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - beepuppy - Jan. 17th, 2012 08:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Jan. 17th, 2012 08:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - vellacraptor - Jan. 17th, 2012 03:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Jan. 17th, 2012 03:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jan. 17th, 2012 05:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 06:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jan. 17th, 2012 07:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 07:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jan. 17th, 2012 07:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 07:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jan. 17th, 2012 09:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 09:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Jan. 17th, 2012 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rayiroth - Jan. 17th, 2012 03:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jan. 17th, 2012 05:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - beepuppy - Jan. 17th, 2012 11:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelegendofsin - Jan. 27th, 2012 07:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - beepuppy - Jan. 27th, 2012 08:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
meguroco
Jan. 17th, 2012 09:32 am (UTC)
Although I agree with the sentiment that a third party should not be contacting the artist about a commission, the response that Sin. gave was horrific. Yeesh.

As for the link, it doesn't appear to be an HTML problem as I could link it on my journal just fine, but maybe it's a comm thing?

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sin.

Hopefully that'll work!
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 05:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
phoenixsrequiem
Jan. 17th, 2012 05:15 pm (UTC)
O.O woah. That kinda sucks. I had won a sketchbook in July last year and she was unable to finish it. She did completely refund me, and I have no hard feelings over that... but just woah. I think she may be overwhelmed a bit..
celarania
Jan. 17th, 2012 06:06 pm (UTC)
I do feel like we're missing part of the story here. However, that being said, it doesn't mean the artist is right. I've looked at some of her other chibis, and while I'd say that you got more background than the others I've seen, there does seem to be a drop in quality.

However, I also feel like you have some responsibility here too. I wish I could see things a little more clearly, but it looks like there was an agreement for ten single figure chibis, that the artist then wanted to combine into five two-character chibis or so. I'm not seeing anything dealing with the sketch pages, or the exact details of how the five pieces that were agreed upon. However, if you have decided on the single piece with the five characters that completes the whole agreement, that is your decision.

I also feel like it wasn't unreasonable to refuse the girlfriends asking for one of your slots. First of all, it's always messy to work with a third party who hasn't paid for the slot. Secondly, trying to use the slot within the context of an auction is entirely inappropriate. That being said, you didn't deserve to be yelled at for your girlfriend's actions. The journal is also entirely inappropriate and unprofessional.

TL;DR - The artist was definitely unprofessional, however I feel like there's a lot of the story we're missing too.
poizenkat
Jan. 17th, 2012 08:32 pm (UTC)
I agree with just about everything you've said XD
(no subject) - jeiwolf - Jan. 17th, 2012 09:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 09:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeiwolf - Jan. 17th, 2012 09:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jan. 17th, 2012 10:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeiwolf - Jan. 17th, 2012 10:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Jan. 17th, 2012 10:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeiwolf - Jan. 17th, 2012 09:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
otherscape
Jan. 17th, 2012 07:31 pm (UTC)
I really think you should have just accepted the refund when she offered it to you. If you could tell she was getting snippy, then pushing her to do it anyway was a bad idea.

That said, that still doesn't excuse her behavior, and I have no idea why she just didn't just admit up front that she was having trouble with yours, and/or offered a refund right then (even if she had money troubles at the time, she could have made and IOU for later).

Also, do you have any of your responses to her on the notes at least?
spiffystuff
Jan. 17th, 2012 09:53 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I agree. When things get as sour as in that note Sinevidence6.png it's usually best just to go with a refund.
poizenkat
Jan. 17th, 2012 08:19 pm (UTC)
Long ago I bought Sin. some plugs in exchange for a reference of my character, Blood. We had an argument over her being rude to a customer (insulting their character and calling it boring) and she blocked me. When I spoke to her I told her to just keep it because it was obvious she forgot and was probably never going to finish it.
She unblocked me since and reblocked me for liking ponies or something? idk. It's really sad though that she's doing this and I feel really bad for recommending her to so many people after she made one of my references.
spiritlobo
Jan. 19th, 2012 01:54 am (UTC)
Ahh, you know, while I was reading this, I kept thinking it was the Sin that's been reported here before for some serious badmouthing on an innocent customer. Am I right on this?

If I am, none of this surprises me in the least. Sin seems like she has some real problems she needs to be taking care of before she does commissions like these :T But that's just my unprofessional opinion.
(no subject) - jeiwolf - Jan. 21st, 2012 08:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - poizenkat - Jan. 21st, 2012 08:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelegendofsin - Jan. 21st, 2012 09:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
corriezodori
Jan. 17th, 2012 08:19 pm (UTC)
Shame, I actually donated to her (cant remember how much, about 8 dollars or 15 dollars)
and she promisedto draw all the people who donated something.
Im not too MUCH bothered that she never did, but still....

I know she has pretty bad work ethic, constantly taking commisions and not finishing the current ones she has.

She was nice to me always, but I just dont think I can trust her. <:\
thelegendofsin
Jan. 21st, 2012 09:48 pm (UTC)
You are still on my list. It was indeed $8 because it was equivalent to an item of food that I told you I was going to, and did get. I made a journal two days ago (I was unaware this a-b post even existed then) with my list of art I still owed inside of it, you are indeed on that list and that list was in no way shape or form the order I was doing them in, just as they came to mind.

It's not like I haven't done ANYTHING for you, I did do that one sketch but wasn't too happy with it, you did in fact see it. I asked you for another idea that I can do for you, I have it THINLY sketched out, pose ... it looks basically like a stick figure right now haha. If you want your $8 donation back, by all means, just ask for it. But I just wanted to let you know that you still are in my top priorities.

If you have anything you want to say or ask, please feel free to comment here, note me, send a PM, or anything !~

I'd also like to thank you for posting your honest opinion. I know that sounds weird, but I like all the information I can get, good or bad.

Have a good day.

-Sin.
(no subject) - corriezodori - Jan. 24th, 2012 05:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
frazzled_niya
Jan. 18th, 2012 02:25 am (UTC)
I'd actually like to hear Sin's side of the story too, while her rudeness was unnecessary I can understand it.

Did you ever just ask for a WIP and not just ask "how is my commission going?"
thelegendofsin
Jan. 21st, 2012 04:19 pm (UTC)
I know you don't get updates if I post a new comment, so I have indeed posted my story below if you are still interested. <3
kadaramy
Jan. 18th, 2012 06:22 am (UTC)

I've bought a bit of art from her, and from my experience she is disorganized.But her art is honestly really cute,I just think she needs to be a little more professional when dealing with other people's money. It's a shame because like said her style is very appealing to me, I hope she can mature as an artist and learn from experiences like this.

Edited at 2012-01-21 05:52 am (UTC)
mikaufoxy
Jan. 19th, 2012 04:23 am (UTC)
Beware deserved. Her rude 'tude reminds me of a certain someone whom got banned from FA permanently.
mialattia
Jan. 19th, 2012 04:58 pm (UTC)
Wwwweell I can't see your responses, but giving too many concessions and not sticking to your guns is just not the right way to deal with these people, and the whole girlfriend-in-the-stream thing wasn't great either for any party.

BUT you should just get a refund for situations like this. As soon as it's offered, or as soon as YOU feel uncomfortable with what the artist (or on the other side, the commissioner) is doing, a refund is in order. As an artist, I can and will refund a customer and not work with them further, and that's what she should have done, but if she wasn't going to, I think you ought to have. Sorry for your experience.
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