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Artist - Juindalo

WHO:Juindalo

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/juindalo/

WHAT: Tracing.

PROOF: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6527410 (NSFW) , four poses traced from http://www.posemaniacs.com/archives/1566 , http://www.posemaniacs.com/archives/374 , http://www.posemaniacs.com/archives/174 , and http://www.posemaniacs.com/archives/66
And here is an overlay: http://www.star-soup.com/images/etc/juindalo-overlay.png
(NSFW)

EXPLAIN:
Just to be clear, I didn't commission him or anything. I just found him through the favorites of other people who had been watching me.
I saw this image: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6527410 (NSFW) and noticed that pose #3 was vaguely familiar. So I looked on my favorite reference website, and there it was.
Posemaniacs is an amazing art reference website filled with all sorts of poses from many angles. And you can click-drag across each pose to rotate it. I use it frequently to reference some poses/angles, or to get some inspiration if I have none. It's an awesome tool.

But this guy isn't just referencing, he's straight-up tracing. As you can see from the overlay, #2-4 are traces. #5 has some changes, so it's not completely a trace. I don't recognize pose #1, so it's possible that he did it himself.

I poked around in his gallery, and nothing else really stuck out for me, but I kind of have the mentality of if someone has one traced image in their gallery, it's possible that there may be more. But, a good portion of it is porn, and good luck trying to find those specific pictures. XD

I wasn't sure if this would be better here, or in art_theft. But I figure that because he's making money off of these, it might do better here.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 35 comments — Leave a comment )
neolucky
Oct. 28th, 2011 10:35 pm (UTC)
I really really wish people would stop using wing-it as a catch all phrase for commissions...=| It's meant to be art done from a reference from the ground up, cheaply, without any input. This is not a wing-it, and they're simply tracing the darn poses from a learning site. That really defeats the purpose of using reference to learn anatomy, cripes.
obsidianwolfess
Oct. 29th, 2011 12:07 am (UTC)
He probably traced the first pose from some porn film/image. I doubt he could come up with it on his own if he almost perfectly traced the other three and altered a fourth. :\
obsidianwolfess
Oct. 29th, 2011 12:08 am (UTC)
Oh btw, might want to add that the images are NSFW. Not a problem for me, but some people do prefer the heads up!
(no subject) - fetalstar - Oct. 29th, 2011 12:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - obsidianwolfess - Oct. 29th, 2011 03:27 am (UTC) - Expand
celestinaketzia
Oct. 29th, 2011 12:27 am (UTC)
Oh wow, they're not even eyeballed or loosely reffed, they're just plain traced.
spiffystuff
Oct. 29th, 2011 01:30 am (UTC)
Wow, posemaniacs looks like a pretty awesome site!

I do have one question - do you have any idea what kind of distribution rights posemaniacs publishes under? I ask because it looks like it could be the sort of place that allows public domain / any use. I just don't know, I looked and couldn't find any copyright info.

Though of course ethically the artist should let people KNOW the commission their buying is from a traced pose, but technically not wrong/illegal if the images are free license.
fetalstar
Oct. 29th, 2011 01:58 am (UTC)
I actually have no idea about their distribution rights. The only thing they really mention is how it's for students and artists who want to practice drawing figures.

I know it wouldn't technically be illegal if it's free license, but it's really bad form to just straight-up trace something if people are paying for it.

I know there's already a huge discussion going on about tracing and stuff, so I'll just leave it at that. XD
(no subject) - sigilgoat - Oct. 29th, 2011 02:13 am (UTC) - Expand
sigilgoat
Oct. 29th, 2011 02:13 am (UTC)
All conversation about the ethics behind tracing is limited to this entry: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/530639.html

Please refrain from speaking about that topic outside the designated entry! Thank you! c:
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Oct. 29th, 2011 02:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sigilgoat - Oct. 29th, 2011 03:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Oct. 29th, 2011 03:06 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sigilgoat - Oct. 29th, 2011 03:16 am (UTC) - Expand
celestinaketzia
Oct. 29th, 2011 03:25 am (UTC)
Posemaniacs is a nice site, but just be aware that the bodies there are highly idealized. It's good for figuring out weird poses. Not so good to learn anatomy long-term.

http://www.pixelovely.com/gesture/figuredrawing.php

I've been using that to practice as it gives images of real people so you can get a variety of different body types. :3
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Oct. 29th, 2011 03:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Oct. 29th, 2011 06:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Oct. 29th, 2011 02:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Oct. 29th, 2011 04:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - starcharmer - Oct. 30th, 2011 06:06 am (UTC) - Expand
rhianna_muir
Oct. 29th, 2011 08:34 am (UTC)
There is no mention on the site (that I can find) about distribution rights, but they do have a donate button. My suggestion would be to donate maybe a dollar for every commission you sell based on a pose. That way it helps them keep the site up, thereby giving you a supply of references.
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Oct. 29th, 2011 08:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kerstin_orion - Oct. 29th, 2011 05:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Oct. 30th, 2011 11:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
thaily
Oct. 29th, 2011 04:30 pm (UTC)
I dunno about #5, but 2, 3 and 4 are shameless :C
kerstin_orion
Oct. 29th, 2011 05:42 pm (UTC)
I asked through the contact email on the Posemaniacs website:

"Are Posemaniacs poses free to use for any purpose, including ones that make money, or is it only for learning and practice?"

They replied:

"Hi
I don't care except reselling original material ;-)"

So Posemaniacs are free license, but you can't sell screencaps or whatnot of the actual images on the site.

Still rather lousy to use the site and not cite your source. That still leaves the other quite-probably-traced image, though I myself don't feel like trying to figure out where it came from! XD
fetalstar
Oct. 29th, 2011 07:02 pm (UTC)
I think it's more lousy that he just traced them. XD

But that's a whole other can of worms.
(no subject) - sbneko - Oct. 30th, 2011 01:27 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kerstin_orion - Oct. 30th, 2011 01:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Oct. 30th, 2011 01:33 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Nov. 2nd, 2011 05:28 am (UTC) - Expand
juindalo
Nov. 15th, 2011 01:33 am (UTC)
Proof Of Not Being Traced
I Am just finding this post about me, unfortunately it seems a little late. I would like to clear up the issue of weather or not I traced the images form www.posemaniacs.com

The answer is no I did not. I am a 3D graphics artist and all pose models used in my artwork is my own. Here is a link to the source file with my on models superimposed the exact same way it was done for the posemaniacs one.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6856780/

I made these models myself, and I can see how there would be some confusion in that they are almost exactly the same. It was most likely due to have just found posemaniacs and browsing through their gallery of poses and getting ideas for some of my own. So when doing the poses for this "wing it" sale, they ere fresh in my mind.
I 100% agree that tracing is NOT a good thing, even for practice in that it creates situations here someone is so used to tracing they rely on it too heavily and then you get into situations where the person/artist whatever begins to make money off of things they have traced/stolen.
I hope this clears everything up, and I would have appreciated someone contacting me to ask me about this. There is a model in my scraps on FA for free use for people to trace, color do whatever they want with (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2446675/) and that should have, in my opinion been taken into account that because I am a 3D artist I create my own 3D models to work off of. Some people may not like that, but I created the models I use so there is really no need for me to use another site's models.
I would really appreciate this post being updated as being resolved if you are satisfied with the proof I have shown. I have also e-mailed and noted the moderators to have this resolved as it is obviously hurting my business.

If you have any other questions or concerns please ask, and I ill be happy to provide any further information that may be needed to show that I did not trace/steal form posemaniacs.com.
kerstin_orion
Nov. 15th, 2011 01:54 am (UTC)
Re: Proof Of Not Being Traced
I personally feel your linework fits much more closely with the Posemaniacs models than your own, including some anatomical anomalies that are not in the models you made.

As noted in a previous comment, I emailed the owner of Posemaniacs with a general question, and they said they allow use of art derived from their models for any purposes, including commercial. The only restriction is people may not take/use the 3D models, themselves.

The post can't be removed due to our community rules. I can, however, mark the post as resolved, since it is about tracing from legitimate sources.
Re: Proof Of Not Being Traced - fetalstar - Nov. 15th, 2011 02:03 am (UTC) - Expand
juindalo
Sep. 29th, 2013 01:52 pm (UTC)
Some time later...
I really wish old claims would get deleted. I've spent the last year reinventing my art methods even though I didn't have the time or resources to do so and I nearly starved and got dreadfully sick because I didn't make enough money. It would have been a shame if I had simply died from this. Either way, my gallery is cleaned up, no thanks to the wave of enthusiasts, and all is mostly well.

My art is 100% hand drawn and original now.
( 35 comments — Leave a comment )

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