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Kayteski


WHO: Kaytseki

WHERE: http://kaytseki.deviantart.com/

WHAT: "Support-Appreciation special commission" -- Soft Vintage Portraits - [Screenshot in case deleted]
WHEN: I sent my order in June 30th, and received it July 8th. July 8th was when problems arose.

PROOF: Agreement for commission: one, two

Conversation: one, two, three [I know screening isn't allowed, but those things I screened were from other people--I prefer my private life to be..well..private. You can see the first part of each note under the title anyway.]

Full conversation: [For proof that I didn't cut anything out. Doesn't include last part she sent me since she deleted the whole conversation and just put that.]


EXPLAIN: This is somewhat a ripoff report. [Samples were all busts and I received a headshot.] It's also of an "attitude" one too? Not too sure. I had commissioned Kaytseki for her portraits, and all samples were busts, so I expected a bust as well, yes? I received a headshot only, so when I asked her if she could do a minor change, just to fill the bottom of the headshot, she said, "LOOOOOLLL i was actually going for the vintage floating head with ribbon look but....
I really don't like this kind of stuff, but since you're the only person who's ever complained, so not like i've ever done it lol. ok i'll do it when i have time~
" The way she said, "I was going for the vintage floating head," was as if I commissioned her for an experimental. I didn't--I ordered a portrait, then later she refuses to change it. "you're the only person who's ever complained~" and that "I'll do it when I have time~" was extremely offputting since I just asked for a minor change. Afterward, the conversation blew up as you can see in the screenshots.

EDIT: Guys, it isn't soley about the, "LOOOOL," but that including the "you're the only person to ever complain," as if it's so wrong to ask why it isn't a bust. I don't understand why so many people are so focused on just how I interpreted the "LOOOL," because that was only a side factor.

Later on in the conversation, I tell her she forgot to draw the lace on the ribbons as well, since it was in the reference I gave her. She refuses to change it as well, even though I commissioned her to draw what's on the reference image.

In the end, she blocked me after sending the last message.
"1. Excuse me? I was talking about earlier, not now. Ugh, fine, you aren't mocking me, but what the hell? Replying "LOOOOL" isn't a laugh--it's a lot more than that. Anyway, it isn't just about the, "LOOOL." After that, you said, "you're the first to complain," even though I wasn't complaining. I was just asking why I didn't get a bustup like both samples you provided. Then after that, you said, "I'll do it when I have time~" as if it was a major change. It wasn't a major change. All I asked for was for the bottom of the headshot to be filled. :|
2. No, it's not changing each and every one of your pictures. We are talking about commissions here.
3. ..It's in her design. You accepted this commission, and you should be drawing it as it is in the reference.

HEY. Even if I'm a kid, I commissioned you. I paid money for you to draw for me. You can't just rip me off simply because 'I'm a kid.'
"
Of course, she never got it since she blocked me, so I don't have a screenshot for this.

Final Edit: Hi guys, I'm sure you know that I wrote an apology on my journal and sent a personal apology to Kaytseki. She actually accepted it, haha...I was really amazed that she was willing to after all the disgusting things I said. However, I still have to apologize to the a_b community. I'm sorry for saying that you guys insulted me, haha. You were all simply pointing out how childish I was, and while being mad/hurt, they simply seeming like insults. I guess I'm kind of asking for a_b's forgiveness..? Ah, I'm not too sure. I also deleted the journal because Kay did see it, and I prefer not getting anymore comments on it. Anyway, someone already screenshot it, so it's still on the internet, haha;;

I'd also like to thank everyone for their input! Even though I didn't reply to everyone's, I read them all and realized I was wrong.

For people that saw my conversation with Theosphir--it's gone now, along with the journal(unless people took caps of the conversation as well), I hope it didn't seem like I thought of the a_b as "bloodthirsty savages." He definitely wasn't sympathizing me, but rather just trying to get the mess solved. I definitely deserved each and every point, because as many of you said, we were both rude, but I chose to bring it out publicly. I understand that many of you don't want to have anything to do with me now, haha. That's fine, especially after the way I reacted, but I just want everyone to know that I am truly sorry. Kaytseki has forgiven me, and that's all that matters.

I also hope that no one thinks of Kaytseki as rude either. Both of us were really angry and hurt during the conversation, so I wanted to let you all know she's not actually like that.

Once again, thank you all for your input! I've definitely learned from this, and from now on, I'll be more careful when problems arise.

Community Tags:

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Comments

( 121 comments — Leave a comment )
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lizbeast
Jul. 10th, 2011 08:19 pm (UTC)
Can you link to the original reference of the character with the lace and details that she forgot?

As for the rest... eh. I see shoulders and shirt detailing and stuff, it's not exactly just a floating head, and I personally probably wouldn't have fussed over a change to a $5 commission. I know, I know, it's is still someone's hard-earned money BUT I don't feel like you were cheated any sort of quality or effort, if it's just a matter of filling in that dark grey to the bottom of the image. Personally, I wouldn't be making changes to $5 commissions, but I also would have outlined that in the TOS when offering them, and it didn't seem like she did.

Additionally, I'm not sure why you suddenly complain about her informal tone and "LOL"-ing when up until that point in your notes you'd both been riddling the conversation with various emoticons and stammering and so forth.

That said, she got pretty unprofessional in responses as well, and refusing to make changes out of spite is kind of... eh. I think you were both being a little silly over this :|

Edited at 2011-07-10 08:20 pm (UTC)
neolucky
Jul. 10th, 2011 08:23 pm (UTC)
Agree with Lizbeast, however one thing really -really- bugs me: she asked you to pay as a "gift", meaning you cannot get a refund if anything were to happen. It's against Paypals TOS to do that isn't it? Ugh.

Either way, honestly I think the extra lace is kind of a trivial matter, and this DOES look like a bust to me. I don't excuse her behavior, it is rather atrocious and rude, but I think you're posting this more as a grudge then a real beware.
holydust
Jul. 11th, 2011 12:26 am (UTC)
It's against PayPal's policy for two reasons:

1. it negates the fees, which means PP doesn't get its cut.
2. it provides no protection for chargebacks. It's intended only to be used for donations and gifts, not payments for goods or services.

Unfortunately, a lot of artists still do it because of the fees thing, not knowing it's against PP's ToS.
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jul. 11th, 2011 01:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Jul. 11th, 2011 01:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jul. 11th, 2011 01:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - holydust - Jul. 11th, 2011 01:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jul. 11th, 2011 01:54 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - holydust - Jul. 11th, 2011 01:55 am (UTC) - Expand
chronidu
Jul. 10th, 2011 08:50 pm (UTC)
Could you also include your halves of the conversation? As in, both you and her's replies. It's nothing against you, but it just insures us that nothing you said might have egged on more rude responses and the like.

Basically so we have clear context.
chronidu
Jul. 10th, 2011 08:51 pm (UTC)
^sorry, to be more clear, a screenshot of the full conversations, as apposed to just a couple comments from either side.

(no subject) - chronidu - Jul. 10th, 2011 08:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rollingeveryday - Jul. 11th, 2011 03:21 am (UTC) - Expand
celarania
Jul. 10th, 2011 08:55 pm (UTC)
Eh, you asked for a portrait which could go either way if you want to get picky. Yes the body isn't there, but that doesn't seem like a big rip-off to me. You might not like it but the artist was going to change it, and in the journal she asked everyone to read she says they won't look exactly like the samples. As for the lace, she also said that she might simplify designs.

Whether she should fix things up on that piece, I don't know. It's a cheap piece, and she doesn't have anything about edits. Probably not because you got exactly what it said, a portrait that didn't look exactly like the samples (but same quality) with a slightly simplified design. I do think it's wrong to say that she wouldn't do it out of spite, but I can see why she wouldn't want to go the extra mile too.

I do have a problem with her using the gift option on paypal, she really shouldn't be doing that.

You have every right not to be happy with your commission, but it seems to me she delivered what she promised. The artist might not be the most professional, but it's not like her tone changed. It doesn't make me eager to do business with her (paypal issue aside), but it wouldn't really scare me off either.
purpule
Jul. 10th, 2011 09:09 pm (UTC)
Rip off? You paid 5dollars and got something that I think is actually far more detailed that what was offered!
ogawaburukku
Jul. 10th, 2011 11:17 pm (UTC)
Agreed! Five dollars is nothing. The artist was under-selling herself, big time.
(no subject) - rollingeveryday - Jul. 11th, 2011 03:23 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Jul. 11th, 2011 03:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Jul. 11th, 2011 03:49 am (UTC) - Expand
ellonwye
Jul. 10th, 2011 09:14 pm (UTC)
I know money is money, but you seem to be getting very wound up over a lovely piece of art that cost you $5. Your massive journal on dA about it seems to be complete overkill.
lizbeast
Jul. 10th, 2011 09:33 pm (UTC)
Wow, I didn't even notice the DA journal. With that in mind yeah I'm really gonna have to say to the commissioner... stop crying and looking for more backpats from the artistic community. You were rude, and you got a far more detailed piece than her examples provided, and in good time. It's not like she took your $5 and ran with it.
(no subject) - celarania - Jul. 10th, 2011 09:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jul. 10th, 2011 09:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cesarin - Jul. 10th, 2011 10:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Jul. 11th, 2011 12:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lizbeast - Jul. 11th, 2011 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - neolucky - Jul. 10th, 2011 10:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
findmealone
Jul. 10th, 2011 09:45 pm (UTC)
The art she made for you is considerably better than the examples. You got a very good deal indeed. I would have thrown you the lolz too, admittedly - it's ridiculous you'd pitch such a fit. Your journal reflects this.
puritikoneko
Jul. 10th, 2011 09:48 pm (UTC)
Honestly, I don't think the artist is in the wrong at all here, and from looking at the samples, I think yours came out nicely and more detailed than they did. They may be in a "bust" fashion, but yours has more detail and looks sketchy than they do, which I personally would consider an even trade. From a personal standpoint, I think you got much more than $5 worth in the piece, but again, that's my personal opinion.

And about the lace, did you actually specify in the primary commission agreement that it absolutely HAD to be there, or did you just toss a reference at her and let her have at it? If you didn't actually say UP FRONT that the lace had to be there, then the artist took the liberty that she stated ON THE SUBMISSION EXAMPLES that she may change their outfits.

You paid $5 via the gift option, which was your mistake to begin with, as most people are aware that sending money via a gift through pay-pal screws you out of disputing the transaction later on.

In all honesty, I can't say that blocking you was the best option, but she did, in fact, say that she would fix it for you. Apparently fixing it right then and there isn't good enough? Because if it had been me, I would have pointed you right back to the submission examples and told you that you should have read more carefully before purchasing a commission. Based on the information given by the artist before the agreement, (her stating that she may change outfits) I don't think she's obligated to change anything about your commission. The fact that she agreed to, even after you received what you paid for (in a timely manner) shows some pretty decent business practices in my book.
puritikoneko
Jul. 10th, 2011 09:49 pm (UTC)
*Looks LESS sketchy
digitalis
Jul. 10th, 2011 09:57 pm (UTC)
For $5 I think this is quite an acceptable piece. I think the quality is there and I'm going to side with the artist on this one.
rollingeveryday
Jul. 11th, 2011 03:23 am (UTC)
I know the quality is there(I really do like the piece.), but don't you see the way she retorted?
(no subject) - digitalis - Jul. 11th, 2011 03:45 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sbneko - Jul. 11th, 2011 03:54 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - holydust - Jul. 11th, 2011 07:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - baronyiffington - Jul. 11th, 2011 02:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
imlikat
Jul. 10th, 2011 10:03 pm (UTC)
I am thinking that I'm siding with kaytseki, here. I mean, yeah, she does use an informal tone, but both of you were, until you freaked out about a LOL.

This is a $5 commission, and she stated that it may not look exactly like the examples, and that she may change the outfits.

Also, you said in a comment in your journal: And actually, I do admit this is 90% of a personal attack.

You also complained about the coloring going outside the lines a little in a few places. Seriously?

Neither party comes off smelling like roses--there is some unnecessary attitude, to be sure--but I'd rather take the risk of commissioning her in the future than have you commission me :/
kairi_koitra
Jul. 10th, 2011 10:27 pm (UTC)
I'm siding with the artist on this one. You spent $5, she sent you an image where I honestly think she undercut herself on it. The image is way better then the images she linked as examples and I say this because where the busts are rather sketchy and very light to hardly any color to them at all more like a color wash. She gave you a better detailed image, with more color and cleaner lines. Sure its not an actual bust but when you compare the images side by side your eyes are more attracted to your commission then the others and its not because its just a "floating head."

Yes she laughed at you but I LOL at a lot of my friends and it's just how I speak its not really offensive at least to me it reads as a semi friendly chat and that she's just kind of surprised at you being upset about it. In her commission statement she says "it may not look *Exactly* like the examples, and that she *MAY* change the outfits." meaning she's going to take an artistic freedom approach a bit with these. It's stated right there so by commissioning her your agreeing to her terms stated.

The only thing I can say I don't agree with is her having you mark the payment as a gift. Because this tatic is often used by people who scam and run off with peoples money. Because techically as a *gift* she doesn't owe you anything even though you have written documentation saying otherwise. paypal isn't going to view your proof with any grain of salt because you used their program wrong.

Hopefully you learned something from this event and if I were you I'd take the DA journal down it looks worse on You then it does her but that's just my two cents on it. Either way I look at it like this, you got your art even though she techically didn't have to give it to you by the way you paid. The art is better quality then the images she had used as examples and she probably would have fixed things a little bit if you didn't jump on the offensive right away.

I think as many artists have said the only thing you've really proven here is a warning to other artists that they may not want to hav dealings with you in the future do to your handlings of this situation.
ogawaburukku
Jul. 10th, 2011 11:24 pm (UTC)
YEAH. I noticed that... I wonder if she does that for larger commissions, too.
(no subject) - kairi_koitra - Jul. 10th, 2011 11:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
semisonicstar
Jul. 10th, 2011 10:38 pm (UTC)
Meh, I dunno, the "I don't really like floating heads" would've made me lol too - it sounds like you're being silly to me, I would've run with it. I don't really feel you were unreasonable to ask, but I kinda think you were a bit unreasonable in your response. Seems like just iffy communication all around... not just on her part, like Lizbeast said.
keaalu
Jul. 10th, 2011 11:40 pm (UTC)
"it sounds like you're being silly to me, I would've run with it"
This. Plus, the whole "textual stammering" she sent to the artist in her second message ("I-If it isn't too much to ask...a-and it'd really make me happy." - what?) would have thrown me off, too.
fierycatthing
Jul. 10th, 2011 10:38 pm (UTC)
Echoing the above comments that for five bucks you got a pretty nice custom piece of your character that is more detailed than the provided examples. She used a slightly different style, yes, but one that she felt was more appropriate to your character (and I agree).

I think you were unnecessarily critical and extremely passive aggressive when you didn't get instant gratification, I don't at all blame the artist for blocking you.
(Deleted comment)
edge_chan
Jul. 10th, 2011 11:16 pm (UTC)
its seems she isn't. Which is sad because her art is amazing and unfairly cheap :C
(no subject) - ogawaburukku - Jul. 10th, 2011 11:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
notorious_hunty
Jul. 10th, 2011 11:03 pm (UTC)
:/ This isn't a valid beware. You just told everyone to avoid you in this post. Agreeing with the other commenters.
zackfig
Jul. 10th, 2011 11:46 pm (UTC)
Maybe that was the point! To warn us of the OP as a commissioner.
(no subject) - notorious_hunty - Jul. 10th, 2011 11:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hamburger - Jul. 10th, 2011 11:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - notorious_hunty - Jul. 10th, 2011 11:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - zackfig - Jul. 11th, 2011 12:07 am (UTC) - Expand
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