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A while ago, there was a post here before about someone getting art of other people's character with ought permission. Because of this, it was suggested for artists to have in their TOS that they needed permission from the other person before doing any work on the art.

But, what do you do when the person wants to get it as a gift, surprised them so they don't want them to know about it and you don't readily see on their profile that they know each other, so there's no way to really know?

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spiffystuff
Apr. 6th, 2011 02:51 am (UTC)
Hum.
I think this is one of those "judgement" things. I mean, if the person who's char they want to commission looks like they're buds with the commissioner then it's probably fine.
Vs if they want adult art of someone and there's no sign that the other someone wants anything to do with the commissioner... red flag. Y'know?
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sbneko
Apr. 6th, 2011 02:54 am (UTC)
I don't do adult work, at least not t'ill I'm old enough, but I know some people would get iffy if they get art of them, but they actually don't know each other.

Right now, I'm not sure if I should be careful with stuff like this, or just take them on anyways and deal with it if something happens.
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celestinaketzia
Apr. 6th, 2011 02:58 am (UTC)
I know you don't do adult work, but sounds like you are iffy about this person. You are the artist, and so you have the right to make the judgement call. If it bugs you, then I suggest to not do it.
sbneko
Apr. 6th, 2011 03:00 am (UTC)
Admittedly, yes, I am iffy with this person. But also, most of the time you can tell the two people are friends or know each other you know? I don't see any connecting here at all, so it's why I've been firm with needing permission, but came here to find out what to do for next time.
ryunwoofie
Apr. 6th, 2011 03:07 am (UTC)
The only way I would want the other person's permission is if it was 'fettish' or 'adult' related. If it was clean, I don't see the harm. But that's just how I do it. IDK about others.
dripbat
Apr. 6th, 2011 05:24 am (UTC)
Thats pretty much how I see it, and how I have in my TOS. :)
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sbneko
Apr. 6th, 2011 03:35 am (UTC)
Yes, that's why I was being careful about since, since I've seen things happen before with clean art, not just adult.
celarania
Apr. 6th, 2011 03:36 am (UTC)
I'll second that this isn't as big of an issue for non-adult art (particularly if it's friendship rather than relationship). I think it's your call, but that there will be potential consequences if there is trouble.

However, at the end of the day, it's your policy and you're the one in the situation. If you're not comfortable doing it for this person or period, then don't do it.
sovy
Apr. 6th, 2011 03:56 am (UTC)
"But, what do you do when the person wants to get it as a gift, surprised them so they don't want them to know about it and you don't readily see on their profile that they know each other, so there's no way to really know?"

You can also try checking their watch lists to see if they are watching each other.
teahound
Apr. 6th, 2011 05:26 am (UTC)
This! Or check their page - if you look at my page for example, I have some of my closer pals mentioned shout-out style in my profile and journal header/footer.
sigilgoat
Apr. 6th, 2011 04:01 am (UTC)
I've done a search before with both character names to see if there's anything with the both of them

Or check recent journals of either party to see if they're friendly.

If not you can really push it like "Tell your friend it's a surprise and that they need to email me saying it's okay, sorry!"

I've had people who had no idea why they were emailing me email me like "Uhhhh I guess I'm getting a present and it's okay to use my character?"
gel_wolf
Apr. 6th, 2011 04:08 am (UTC)
Peronally, I've had people who I wasn't friends with commission art of me, and I find it...incredibly strange and uncomfortable. As an artist, I wouldn't do it until you get permission from the other person to draw their character. As far as how to get permission, I'd say have the other person send you a note/email confirming that it's ok to use their character. Not that it's any sort of legal issue or anything, but in a fandom where people represent themselves with their characters, it's generally polite to get permission first to avoid potential drama.

( also, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a jerk with this, but I think you meant out, not ought ^^;;; )
sbneko
Apr. 6th, 2011 04:10 am (UTC)
Personally, I don't like using email unless I can can find they're email on their page, since there's no way for me to know it's really them.

I find it ironic that you point out a mistake but have one herself <3
neolucky
Apr. 6th, 2011 04:49 am (UTC)
I wouldn't do it without permission, end of story. Adult, or not, I would not personally do it.
mukichan
Apr. 6th, 2011 05:34 am (UTC)
This. I wouldn't work on it if I can't find a clear indication that the two people know of each other on a friend-level or at least COMFORTABLE acquaintance-level.

I think that even if the watcher and artist talk alot in comments, you can usually read how they interact with each other and judge upon that.
shukivengeance
Apr. 6th, 2011 05:14 am (UTC)
You could always ask the commissioner how they know each other, but they could just make something up.

Simply say to the commissioner that there's no evidence on their pages that they know each other so you'd need the other person's explicit permission - and who cares if it spoils the surprise, making sure you're not being an enabler to a creep is more important than secrecy.

With judgement calls like these it's best to trust your gut. The fact that you posted this entry in the first place suggests to me that the whole thing makes you uneasy.
zackfig
Apr. 6th, 2011 05:47 am (UTC)
Well, there goes half of my planned commissions then. More than half of what I commission is for friends, which I order as gifts, more often than not, as surprises.

Artists I've worked with have never complained about this, but then again, there's really nothing to complain as I don't commission for adult art to begin with.

I understand where some are coming from, having dealt with the repercussions, but I'd not commission someone that asks me for written permission from the person I'm trying to secretly give a gift in the first place! And my friends know I tend to give gifts at random times, just for the hell of it.
megumi_kitten
Apr. 6th, 2011 01:50 pm (UTC)
Ah but the keyword in your post is 'friends'...that means clear indication on your pages that you talk and whatnot. So, proof.

She's talking about there's no evidence this commisioner knows the person who's character they want with them in the picture.
kriscynical
Apr. 6th, 2011 10:56 am (UTC)
This may have been said already but I haven't read all 34 comments so please pardon me if I repeat somebody.

This isn't in my personal ToS, but most standard contracts from the Graphic Artist's Guild have a clause in them that holds the artist harmless for any illegal actions that are the result of something the client tells the artist to do. In this case it would protect you against producing artwork of another person's character without their permission. It's up to the client to be ethical in that regard since you can't always tell without personally knowing the client and the owner of the character.
ankewehner
Apr. 6th, 2011 04:13 pm (UTC)
One possibility might be looking around their site to see if they post art that other people drew of their characters - that gives at least some indication that they don't mind other people drawing them.

Doesn't cover the special case of interaction with the commissioner's character, though.
lilenth
Apr. 6th, 2011 07:13 pm (UTC)

Personally in that sort of situation, I just do the work, I'm paid to draw not to play mommy so I presume that most folks are telling the truth unless there's something really sketchy about it.

If someone shows up irate about the image for some reason, then they can take it up with the person who commissioned it because it's not my job to chase around checking up on things. Other than that, I'd take it down if there was a genuine complaint about it from the other person.

My only issue with gift commissions so far has been trouble with having to go through someone to get approvals from the other person since they knew the person was buying it. As a general rule, if the other party knows about it and wants to approve it as well, then I need contact details so I'm not waiting for someone else to get back to me about what they said.
puritikoneko
Apr. 6th, 2011 11:17 pm (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree with this.

It's not your responsibility to go chasing down who's friends with who. If you're getting paid to do a piece of art with no questionable or fetish content, then I personally would take the work.

From what I've seen, most people openly accept gift art of their characters, but if you really wanted to check, you could always go to their userpage and see if it's anywhere in their profile.

If the owner of the character expresses any dislike of the piece for whatever reason, simply advise them that you draw what you're paid to draw, and if they're very much offended, take it down.

Also, if this is something you're uncomfortable with doing, you can always revise your TOS to include this situation and whether you will or will not be taking commissions with these surrounding circumstances in the future.
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