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 Alright, so this guy named Fluffdance, decided to commission me. He had commissioned me before, and I did them, and he was pleased. So, he commissioned me again like a month ago, for two sketches. I started work on them, and told him, and we kept in contact. I was trying to change my art up a bit so I was being slow, admittedly, but it wasn't nothing terrible as it had just been a little while since he payed. 

All of a sudden, he finds out that I have had commission problems in the past, which I have worked on, and refunded, and now I get things done; and decides oh , I must be a terrible person even though were were friends before! So he freaks out, and proceeds to post a journal about it. 



He had blocked me, so I used a different account to try to contact him, because I had to sort this out. He ignores me for a good while, until a few of my friends start commenting about him, then he tells them that he was talking with me, and them talking to him is just making things worse for me. So I note him again, and he FINALLY replies, and tosses things at me that he makes up. 

How apparently I kept ignoring him when he tried to contact me about his commission status; which is a lie, he never asked me during the time he says he did.


If AIM really messed up like he keeps telling ME (no one else for that matter, simply that I ignored him), he could have just noted me, but nope. I meet all of his stories with the truth, and since he finds out he can't make anything else up, he just ignores me again, and goes back to what he was doing.

When I see him freaking out at first, I'm just like, ugh, whatever, because he said I should just finish the art, so I did. I told him; yet he proceeded to continue to make up things and yell at my friends who just wanted to sort this out. He ignored me finishing things, AND making him a gift. So; I take down the commissions, and just refund him. But then he uploads the pictures I did to his account, acting like nothing happened, keeps replying to my friends with fake stories, and then a bit later, deletes his journal. So I was like. Uh, what? 

I try noting him again, while he continues to block my accounts, and my friends', and he tells me if I keep trying to talk to him, he'll report me for harassment. Which I know isn't a worry, since I talked to Dragoneer about it, and since my friends sent in trouble tickets about the stolen art, Dragoneer removed the images. 

Then, Fluffdance posts a journal about that too, right after the images are removed, posting them on ANOTHER site, so he can keep posting them around, I guess it's a loophole;


At this point he still has my money, even though I don't want to be refunded, he keeps saying he will, and blocks me every time I try to contact him. Continuing to drag this out, and posting the images around, when he doesn't have the right to. 

So yeah. Watch out for this guy. Apparently he does things like this a lot.

Community Tags:

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


( 62 comments — Leave a comment )
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Feb. 15th, 2011 12:15 am (UTC)
I approved this, but I'm a bit confused. You start off by saying he commissioned you, but then at the end say he hasn't refunded you? I'm confused. Are you saying he never actually paid you for the commission?
Feb. 15th, 2011 12:19 am (UTC)
It looks like the OP refunded him and sent the images, to which then he started posting the images everywhere with a promise to pay back that refund to the OP that has of yet gone unfulfilled.
(no subject) - hamburger - Feb. 15th, 2011 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eveshka - Feb. 15th, 2011 12:24 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 12:30 am (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 12:22 am (UTC)
Fluffdance commissioned me last year at FC and he was completely kind and lovely to work for. Just my 2 cents about this guy :)
Feb. 15th, 2011 12:31 am (UTC)
Yeah, he was to me at first too. But when I was a bit slow with his commissions, he freaked out and caused drama that was completely pointless.
Feb. 15th, 2011 12:27 am (UTC)
The whole drama thing is a little bit confusing (and somewhat unnecessary imo) but what's most damning here is the fact that he is intentionally disrespecting your right as the copyright holder by reposting in other places to deliberately get back at you. And then flaunting it in his journal. A massive no-no. Appreciate the beware.
Feb. 15th, 2011 12:38 am (UTC)
Yeah, it was unnecessary for him to do this really. It's a shame because he was a cool guy at first, and freaked out over pretty much nothing. The went and did this with the reposting.

No problem; he does this a lot so I've heard, but I guess it doesn't get around much.
(no subject) - jirris_midvale - Feb. 15th, 2011 10:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 12:42 am (UTC)
It would definitely help if you had a better breakdown of events here and more clearly detailed the timeline. (dates in regards to when the commission was started and paid for vs the refund would be a plus) Also, it would help if you could be more clear about what was paid for and how much of it was completed before you refunded him.

Currently, it sounds like you finished his last commission but refunded him in, and he now has a free commission. Is this correct, or was it only a partial refund or partially completed?
Feb. 15th, 2011 12:51 am (UTC)
The commission was asked for December 31st. Talked to him on AIM, showed him I was working on it, and kept him updated. I was having issues working on it, and had some other things to do, but I always talked to him when he asked. He payed around Jan. 12th. I refunded him last night.

He wanted two sketches, one had two characters, the other was one character. I had done the basic skeletons, but was frustrated so I tried to change things up a bit, but I was working on them. Told him I was as well.

I refunded all his money, so yeah. He's running with free art.
(no subject) - armaina - Feb. 15th, 2011 01:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 01:47 am (UTC)
What is the journal he is referring to in https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18591885/logs.png ?
Feb. 15th, 2011 01:50 am (UTC)
He was mad because I opened up commissions (my current ones were nearly done).
(no subject) - zhivagod - Feb. 15th, 2011 02:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 01:59 am (UTC)
RE: Him reposting without your permission- You may file a DMCA with the site he's hosting them on if you want. Hate to burst his bubble, but he just can't reupload them willy nilly without your permission.
Feb. 15th, 2011 04:10 am (UTC)
^ Exactly
(no subject) - thaily - Feb. 15th, 2011 09:29 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 03:58 am (UTC)
It kind of seems like he bullied you with angsty drama ridden journal entries, and you just kept pursuing and fretting about it. I know you were worried about your reputation, but at a certain point when you weren't at fault and kept trying to make amends with him, I'd have just given up trying to reason with this person.
Also I didn't read all the journal entries that you posted but did he mention you by name specifically? Because while he was evidently talking about you, had you and your friends just ignored it he'd be doing his little tirades for the benefit of his peanut gallery, and you'd just finish his commission and send it to him. Then if he had tried to gripe about you then, you could just prove that you did his art and no longer had an obligation towards him. He was just determined to make drama
You should never refund someone and send them the art (that is what you did, correct? Its a little hard to tell from your convoluted conversational style writing here). Folks already mentioned about him reposting the art being wrong, so I won't repeat.
Feb. 15th, 2011 06:11 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I was kinda in a position where I was being bullied into finishing a commission. Apparently he acts like this when he isn't first in line or something. I should have yeah, but I'm a bit tired of having false info about me go around. I finished his stuff and gave him a gift; but he proceeded to continue to go around spouting things. So I just refunded him so maybe he'd just drop it. But I was wrong about that too, as he still will not give up.

He keeps blocking me; and I have a refund at him, so there's no way to contact him, and apparently the FA mods don't want to do anything.

And yeah, I suppose that is true and a good point, I could have done that. But it also bugged me because he was a friend and had no reason to act the way he did. But I guess all I did for him fell on deaf ears, over a few drawings.

That's what I did, and I kinda regret it, since it looks like I've been ripped off here.
Feb. 15th, 2011 04:09 am (UTC)
So he paid you in january for it, and he was shown progresses of them, and the pictures, both were finished within the month?

Unless you had previously stated you would get them done before that, it is definitely not an issue to be blowing up with this much intensity over I think.

In retrospect, it's always good to let your commissioners know an alotted amount of time it will take you to do per commission. If I had figured this out when I first started, I would have saved a few misunderstandings as well.

I agree with Taasla though. If you refunded him the work, he shouldnt be allowed to keep and use the product. You can and should file a DMCA with the sites he is hosting the pictures on. Think of it this way. How many products did you buy and then not have to return when you wanted a refund? Food. Maybe, but all electronics require you to send back the product to get the refund. In the end, he didnt pay for it, as you refunded it, therefore, it's not his.
Feb. 15th, 2011 04:19 am (UTC)
Ok, just talked to someone in food industry and I was wrong, apparently if you do not like the product, you have to send back the uneaten bits. In other words, if you dont like s product, you wouldnt eat it all. If you eat it all and then demand a refund, they are not required to give you one. This is for prepared food, of course.

In othr words, he took total advantage of you. And every other industry out there has measures to prevent this type of usery. I suggest making a tos saying that you will not give a complete refundy for a product and that if they dislike the product, they should try to work with you while they are being updated with WIPS.

Most artists who subsist off of commissions do this. If they work 4 hours on a picture and someone decides they dont like it, they should be refunded the remainder amount of time it would take to finish the product. Even if some people dont agree with this measure, if it's in your TOS, then commissioners knows the risk factor when dealing with you.
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 05:22 am (UTC)
Given the newest journal on his page, he has no idea how art copyrights work and someone with the proper expertise should explain it to him. Clearly he thinks he can keep posting the work up places because of his own misunderstanding of the law.
Feb. 15th, 2011 06:21 pm (UTC)
Seems like it yeah. And he keeps disregarding everything proven against him, trying to tell people otherwise.

Friends and myself have been discussing this, and it really seems like he's just reposting things to flaunt it. :/ He reposted them /right/ after I refunded him; too.
Feb. 15th, 2011 06:19 am (UTC)
im sorry this is not the fluffdance i kno at all this guy is a sweet loving man
Feb. 15th, 2011 05:58 pm (UTC)
I thought so too. It seems he puts on a face unless he doesn't get what he wants or has to wait in line. There's a bunch of other people who have had similar experiences with him.

Also, I saw that you told him he was posted here; and I believe that's against the rules?
(no subject) - kayla_la - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tailsxfoxxninja - Feb. 16th, 2011 09:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 06:29 am (UTC)
Wow. Deliberately flaunting the pictures the commissioner is not even supposed to post? I'm definitely going to remember that name and will warn everybody else. I hate dealing with people that can't let go of a grudge. Thanks for the beware.
Feb. 15th, 2011 06:22 pm (UTC)
It's a let down as he was a pretty cool guy at first. But yeah, if you can warm people, that'd be great. He seems to be trying to put himself in the clear here, despite his no evidence, but if it gets around, it may save people in the future. Thank you!
Feb. 15th, 2011 06:53 am (UTC)
I will eagerly avoid being one of the "hundreds" of artists this person commissions every year, if it ever comes down to it.
Thanks for the warning.
Feb. 15th, 2011 06:23 pm (UTC)
Ah, no problem. =) Makes me wonder how many others he's done this to, though.
Feb. 15th, 2011 09:17 am (UTC)
This guy is INSANE. The site they're hosted to is his personal site.
He and I were friends until be blocked me for supposedly playing games. He could no longer stand me and the "cool kids" (what he called all the people i hung out with) and couldn't keep up with the games we were playing.
In person he acts as if he never flipped his shit on me and we're still friends, which he also does to a bunch of other people I know
Feb. 15th, 2011 09:57 am (UTC)
I can vouch for this sort of RL/internet split. When I met him in person at FC one year and apologized for how poorly I handled managing my time and causing delays on his artwork, he seemed to be completely flabbergasted at what I was talking about, as if he had no idea what sort of altercation I was referring to.
(no subject) - owl_song - Feb. 16th, 2011 12:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jirris_midvale - Feb. 18th, 2011 08:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - owl_song - Feb. 16th, 2011 12:08 am (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 09:53 am (UTC)
I've had troubles in the past, but not nearly anything this far gone. For my side, I admit being difficult to get a hold of sometimes as I drop off of FA for months at a time as I sort RL out now and then. I am completely a pain in the ass to work with sometimes, but I'm trying to get better

I've done two pieces for him. The first, I reworked due to a miscommunication on my part. The second, I was dealing with being an idiot and taking too much work and I got a very pleasant but threatening note over the FA system. I merely bumped him to the front of the queue, finished it, and that's that. Around the time that occurred, a friend of mine passed anecdotes along to me of his increasing belligerence with artists and other members of the fandom. When the event with his second piece occurred, he was merely passive-aggressive in his demeanor and vaguely threatening while being cheerful about doing such things (which, honestly, I probably find more unsettling than outright 'I will make your life miserable').

From that point on, when I open commissions via journals on FA he always comments with "awfully tempting..." or something akin to that and I can't take it in any way except a slight at my expense due to the unsaid 'but' that exists at the end of that statement. This works perfectly well with me, as I found his threats of making paypal beat my account about the head and neck for having to wait on artwork most uncouth. In the case that he decides to pay me for my services, there will likely be 'Make Jirris Drop Everything Else So You Can Cut To The Front Of The Line To Get Your Porn ASAP' surcharge. Such an event would probably sour him further from doing business with me, and I am perfectly alright considering that he is one difficult client out of many many I've served gladly*.

It appears at this point, he's more than willing to trump whatever inconvenience or perceived slight that might exist due to having to wait in line along with everyone else with the sullying of reputations. An artist should work hard to make sure they can be trusted, but ruining the reputation of an artist is more far reaching than ruining the reputation of a buyer. A buyer has a harder time spending their fun money possibly, but an artist making money from the fandom usually uses that money for more than fun stuff. Then again, from my knowledge of how he's acted towards individuals who raised his ire in the past, he is not terribly concerned with this.

*I have not kept track of the percentage of 'unfortunate clients' as Fluffdance has with the people he's hired, but I've maybe had a grand total of 3-4 people (way, way less than perhaps even 1% of my total customers) that I wouldn't allow to hire me again without massive 'asshole tax' thrown in. Perhaps it's because our ilk is stuck up, perhaps it's because fans are more willing to put up with our garbage than they ours. I'm not sure what lead him to this number, or if it's a complete ass-pull because Numbers Make You More Right©
Feb. 15th, 2011 04:39 pm (UTC)
Yeah I'd seen him around once or twice and he always seemed pretty chill commenting on other people's work and such. It's only recently through Toxi (the op) that I find out he tends to royally flip his shit over the slightest inconvenience or percieved threat as if he were wearing a tin foil hat.

trying to argue with him or make any attempt at politely diffusing the situation gets you nowhere as he will simply block/hide comments if you aren't agreeing with what he says or bending backwards for him.

It's slowly getting to the point where I'm considering warning some of my friends to steer well clear of the guy in case he pulls this sort of thing again. It's especially sad he's sitting there quoting the AUP and laws when he's pretty much ripped off the OP.
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 06:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jirris_midvale - Feb. 15th, 2011 11:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 15th, 2011 08:47 pm (UTC)
This is why I constantly remove artists_beware from my watch list. It's the convoluted, childish drama that I always see from the "furry community" which just wastes all of our time.

Can you please be clear and just write up a summary of what happened exactly instead of posting links to journals and all this dramatic nonsense?
Feb. 15th, 2011 09:35 pm (UTC)
What? I'm just getting out that this guy is someone who people should watch out for. He starts drama over the /littlest/ things. I don't think it's a waste of time to do that. =/

I don't see how anything I posted wouldn't clear this up for you, it all very valid.

He commissioned me around a month ago, I worked on in and kept him updated. Then he stopped talking to me, got really upset and freaked out for no good reason; posting things to do nothing but provoke drama. He tried to bully me into putting him first in line, and when I tried to solve it, he just would block me and anyone else trying to. He would make up stories so I posted proof that he's making things up. He would ignore them and continue to tell people his stories and put on a face. I refunded him to get me to leave him alone, but he snuck around and took the pictures, essentially stealing them, and flaunted them around, acting like everything was all cool, trying to get rid of anything against him.
(no subject) - minimalismo - Feb. 15th, 2011 09:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 09:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - riskyrussian - Feb. 15th, 2011 09:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 09:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - minimalismo - Feb. 15th, 2011 09:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - intervivos_2 - Feb. 15th, 2011 09:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - neolucky - Feb. 15th, 2011 11:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
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