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Beware: Jirashi

 On Nov. 30th, I contacted Jirashi (furaffinity.net/user/jirashi) about a potential commission and asking if he was open.  He said he was, and asked about details.  After giving him the details, he told me that he'd work on a rough sketch of the whole thing for our approval (the commission was actually a buddy's for the two of us) when he got the chance, and would continue pending approval.  I agreed.  About four or five days later, he told me that his school's exams were consuming all of his time and that he wouldn't be able to work on anything after Dec. 15th.  After checking with my buddy, we decided we were okay with waiting.  The 15th passed, and a few days after it I asked about progress.  He told me he'd managed to start something, but nothing near worth showing yet.  The next few weeks after that it was the same deal every time I asked, absolutely 0 progress.  After about the first week in January, he started avoiding me altogether.  I contacted him on AIM, Skype, Steam, he has not said a single word in response since the 14th of January (and the week previous, he had only said one or two things to me at all).  I sent him a note on FA, but he didn't even bother to read it.  A little over a week ago, I was fed up with him avoiding me.  I sent him an IM/message on every means of contact I had with him telling him that he had one week to just contact me, not even show any progress on the image, but just discuss it with me and stop avoiding me, or I would post my story here and to my FA journal, as well as spread the word to those I know not to do business with him.  I frequently reminded him through the week, but no dice.  Sometime in the last week, he finally got around to reading that note on FA, but he had not when I delivered the Ultimatum a week ago.
There's a couple things I would like to note here.  The first is that, previous to my ultimatum, I have been very patient with the guy.  I didn't constantly nag him about progress, I didn't harass him on his FA profile (I posted one comment referencing the image, but it was in jest), and I wasn't even asking that much.  In my ultimatum, I didn't even ask to see progress on the picture, I just wanted him to stop avoiding me and actually talk to me about the image.  The second thing I'd like to note is that I know for a fact that the guy had plenty of opportunities to make progress on the image.  He wasted away his entire break following his exams playing WoW (of which he admitted to), and since the 15th of December, he's taken and completed several badge commissions and streamed himself starting and completing another piece of art on WatchTail.

I would avoid Jirashi unless you like having the artist you're commissioning showing you absolutely no respect and pulling stunts like this.  This is no way to treat anyone, let alone a customer.

EDIT: Guys, you misunderstand me.  I'm not trying to make a case against Jirashi, I'm trying to warn others against doing business with him.  Did he get money from me?  No.  The agreement was that he would get payment following the approval of the sketch.  It may seem silly to you, but the fact of the matter is, he agreed to do something.  Conversations over IM constitute as much an obligation as a conversation via email or notes on FA.  I just happened to chose IMs as a means of contact because I had known the guy prior to this ordeal and (usually), Instant Messaging is a faster way of getting in contact with someone and having an open discussion.  Not only did he continually not deliver, he never bothered to just come out and tell me he wasn't going to do it, he just made me keep on waiting.  I don't mind waiting if I'm going to see something out of it, but making me wait around and jump through hoops to try and get in contact with the guy, only for him to just avoid me is a really cruddy way to treat someone you're doing business with.  All he had to do was assure me that I'd eventually get my art or tell me he wasn't going to do it, but he couldn't even offer me that much.  I don't think saying "Hey, not gonna do it kthxbai" is all that hard.

I very much think this belongs here.  While the issue may not be as pressing as some of the other entries, the bottom line is, an artist I tried to do business with mistreated me.  I'm not out any money, but I am out over two months of time waiting around for someone who not only backed out of something they agreed to do, but couldn't even offer me the courtesy of telling me he was going to back out, and keeping me waiting longer.  I'm not trying to get anything out of the guy, I'm just sharing a very frustrating experience with an artist and trying to warn others away before they receive similar treatment, which is really the whole purpose of putting a "Beware" entry up, is it not?  I've seen several entries up here (several ones about paid transactions, mind you) that mention after a while, it's not about the money, it's about the principal of the thing.  Well, that pretty much fits how I feel about the whole situation, and why I decided to post it up here.  Take from it what you will.

2ND EDIT: Someone requested screencaps of the discussion in question.  I replied in a comment, but someone suggest I post them to the entry itself, so here you are:

Unfortunately, some of the discussions (including the initial agreement) were done over steam IM, which doesn't log chats. I know that doesn't do much for my credibility, but here are snipits from the logs I do have:

This is from the 5th of December, which would be five days following the agreement. This is when he informed me that he wouldn't be able to work until after the 15th:
http://tinypic.com/r/2qx0ug9/7

This is from the 20th of December, the only time he ever claimed any progress on a the pre-approval sketch:
http://tinypic.com/r/2hyukcp/7

This is from the 30th of December, admitting to 0 progress and being absorbed in WoW:
http://tinypic.com/r/1zohml1/7

This last one is from the 6th of January, again further admitting to no progress whatsoever:
http://tinypic.com/r/65ww1d/7

Following that, he said very little to me and would always either change the subject or flat-out ignore me any time I brought up the picture. After the 14th, he has not said a single thing back to me.

I'm sorry I cut the snipits so short, but Jirashi and I used to be friends, so the conversations tend to veer a little on the personal side. Nothing that couldn't be discussed in polite conversation, I just don't like to post my conversations with my friends to the public.

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 55 comments — Leave a comment )
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allykat
Feb. 10th, 2011 12:08 pm (UTC)
I'm assuming you did, but I have to ask because it wasn't explicitly stated, did you pay the artist in question on or around Nov. 30th?

Edited at 2011-02-10 12:08 pm (UTC)
sovy
Feb. 10th, 2011 01:17 pm (UTC)
Did you pay the artist yet?
snobahr
Feb. 10th, 2011 03:54 pm (UTC)
And here is the inevitable request for screencaps of the discussion.
sfaosttrack20
Feb. 10th, 2011 07:36 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately, some of the discussions (including the initial agreement) were done over steam IM, which doesn't log chats. I know that doesn't do much for my credibility, but here are snipits from the logs I do have:

This is from the 5th of December, which would be five days following the agreement. This is when he informed me that he wouldn't be able to work until after the 15th:
http://tinypic.com/r/2qx0ug9/7

This is from the 20th of December, the only time he ever claimed any progress on a the pre-approval sketch:
http://tinypic.com/r/2hyukcp/7

This is from the 30th of December, admitting to 0 progress and being absorbed in WoW:
http://tinypic.com/r/1zohml1/7

This last one is from the 6th of January, again further admitting to no progress whatsoever:
http://tinypic.com/r/65ww1d/7

Following that, he said very little to me and would always either change the subject or flat-out ignore me any time I brought up the picture. After the 14th, he has not said a single thing back to me.

I'm sorry I cut the snipits so short, but Jirashi and I used to be friends, so the conversations tend to veer a little on the personal side. Nothing that couldn't be discussed in polite conversation, I just don't like to post my conversations with my friends to the public.
(no subject) - fatkraken - Feb. 10th, 2011 07:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sfaosttrack20 - Feb. 10th, 2011 08:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Feb. 10th, 2011 08:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sfaosttrack20 - Feb. 10th, 2011 08:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
spiffystuff
Feb. 10th, 2011 04:50 pm (UTC)
3rding request for specifics on if/when payment was made.
ryunwoofie
Feb. 10th, 2011 05:07 pm (UTC)
If no money changes hands, they don't have to commit no matter how hard you push it. Unless you show us you've paid, your kinda have no credibility here..
vindonnus
Feb. 10th, 2011 05:33 pm (UTC)
^This^
It seems clear to me that he's simply not that "into" your request, and while, yes, I do feel it is rude to blow off a requestor without any sort of "hey I'm busy" statement, this community is more about artists who actually fail to fulfill an obligation outlined in some sort of legally binding contract, usually the sort where an agreement has been made AND goods and/or money has been exchanged. Discussions on IM or e-mail (or some other PM system) aren't enough to constitute a substantial obligation. And, even if it was sufficient, you haven't provided evidence of the conversation yet, as already noted below.
fatkraken
Feb. 10th, 2011 05:41 pm (UTC)
I've just had a customer flake out on me after MONTHS of negotiation, 43 emails, back and forth about design choices, I even stupidly purchased fur before getting the deposit because of a sale and to combine postage. This morning he cancelled. He has and had NO obligation to me because the deposit had not been paid, buying the fur was MY decision, my mistake and my responsibility.

If you paid, then you have a case. If not, sorry, hard luck.

on a completely unrelated matter, does anyone want to by 4 yards of cream fake fur?
ryunwoofie
Feb. 10th, 2011 05:46 pm (UTC)
Please tell me your joking about selling fur here. D:/
(no subject) - fatkraken - Feb. 10th, 2011 06:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
stormslegacy
Feb. 10th, 2011 06:17 pm (UTC)
Ignoring you without even a "no, thanks I don't want the commission" is rude but, given that you haven't paid him yet, you do come off as a bit pushy. It's one of those behaviors you write off as annoying but not something really worth posting here.
kriscrash
Feb. 12th, 2011 05:52 pm (UTC)
I agree. This is probably something I would do myself, until the money was on the table and the deal had started up a bit. Yes it's better to say NO than let it fizzle out ... but it's just a human flaw I suppose.

To Jirashi it's just a small thing he's put off. If Sfaosttrack20 creates journal drama over this it is NOT going to improve the situation.
midnightfury
Feb. 10th, 2011 06:46 pm (UTC)
Agreeing with everybody who mentioned payment. If you didn't pay him, then you're not out anything.
(Deleted comment)
sfaosttrack20
Feb. 10th, 2011 08:26 pm (UTC)
I'm relatively certain that you won't find "making a case" anywhere in the definition of "beware." The purpose of a beware is to voice a negative experience to warn others against doing business with an artist at the risk of having a similar experience. That's what I did. Take from it what you will.

As far as "what the beef is," the tl;dr is that he agreed to do something, didn't, couldn't even be bothered to tell me he was gonna flake and instead continually avoided me, making me wait around for him and jump through hoops just to try and contact him to see if he was even gonna do it or not. I wasted time waiting for any kind of word from him, when if he had just come out and told me he wasn't gonna do it, I could've forgotten about him ages ago and tried to take my business elsewhere. The "ultimatum" just refers to what I told him a little over a week ago, which was to just contact me regarding it (even if it was just to tell me he wasn't going to do it), or I would post the story here and to my journal.
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - sfaosttrack20 - Feb. 10th, 2011 09:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - Feb. 10th, 2011 09:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sfaosttrack20 - Feb. 10th, 2011 09:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Feb. 10th, 2011 09:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
ryunwoofie
Feb. 10th, 2011 08:24 pm (UTC)
Baw I didn't get my free art...
Honestly if I never received money for something, weather I tell you I'm gonna do it or not, I don't HAVE to give you anything. Most artists WONT. Your making a BIG deal over nothing. It was a request. It's up to the artist in question if they want to do it or not. If they don't your SOL, you didn't pay you don't get anything. This isn't the artists fault, weather they want to tell you they are gonna go through with it or not, and your only making yourself look like a fool for making this such a big deal.
sfaosttrack20
Feb. 10th, 2011 08:27 pm (UTC)
Re: Baw I didn't get my free art...
it wasn't a request, actually. Payment was going to be accepted upon sketch approval. Try reading what I wrote next time.
Re: Baw I didn't get my free art... - sfaosttrack20 - Feb. 10th, 2011 08:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Baw I didn't get my free art... - ryunwoofie - Feb. 10th, 2011 08:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Baw I didn't get my free art... - ryunwoofie - Feb. 10th, 2011 08:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Baw I didn't get my free art... - sfaosttrack20 - Feb. 10th, 2011 08:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
kerstin_orion
Feb. 10th, 2011 08:27 pm (UTC)
ATTENTION EVERYONE MAKING 'NO PAYMENT-NO COMPLAINT' COMMENTS.
While this may not seem as extreme as some of our posts, the artist did, indeed, agree to take a commission, then avoid contact with the commissioner. As the commissioner stated, a simple "I'm sorry, I can't do the commission any more" or "I need a bit more time" would have sufficed. Instead, the artist chose to avoid contact.

You can all weigh your judgment of how serious this is as you see fit, but please, no more comments whether they should have posted the beware in the first place.
frazzled_niya
Feb. 13th, 2011 11:16 am (UTC)
Re: ATTENTION EVERYONE MAKING 'NO PAYMENT-NO COMPLAINT' COMMENTS.
THIS
(Deleted comment)
sfaosttrack20
Feb. 10th, 2011 09:21 pm (UTC)
Well, being that the day I delivered the ultimatum was the 1st, it was quite a bit longer than that. Almost a month long. And while two months may not be that long of a wait for commission progress, the 14th-the 1st is quite a bit to wait for someone to just talk to you about it. I'd like to note that it wasn't that he was unable to contact me, he was on AIM, Skype, and Steam almost every day between the day he stopped talking to me altogether (Jan 14th) and the day I gave him the ultimatum (Feb. 1st). Not to mention, in between those dates, he was on WatchTail streaming art, and posted a completed badge commission.

Also, I never claimed that my issue was more pressing than the others posted here, I just wanted to post my story and let other's take from it what they will.

Maybe he did just lose interest, but if he did, all he had to do was tell me he wasn't going to do it. He didn't, and instead made me wait around for him and go out of my way to try and get in contact with him regarding it.
lilenth
Feb. 10th, 2011 09:47 pm (UTC)

Unfortunately, just because you contact an artist? Doesn't mean that arrangements will necessarily go through. There's a reason my new terms of service gives time limits on quotes because a lot of people do contact artists, go "I want to buy blah blah blah from you" and then disappear after getting a quote. They may not come back to an artist for years if at all.

As a general rule, I treat any arrangement in which no firm arrangements (ie exchange of money or a sketch) have taken place as an agreement which may fall through (Hell some still do that even after firm arrangements). Generally if someone disappears on me, I may contact them once or twice, if still nothing happens, I leave the ball in their court and move onto something else.

You chose to waste your time chasing an artist you did not have a firm agreement with, is his inability to give you a straight forward "no, I can't" bad of him? Yes, it is but at the same time nothing concrete existed, so while you can complain of flaky behaviour in terms of confirming an agreement, it's not exactly a major complaint. (Cos if we artist's complained about every commissioner who did this to us, the AB staff would run out of tags). I'd say learn from this event, find someone else to do the work.
sfaosttrack20
Feb. 11th, 2011 12:50 am (UTC)
Again, I'm not really asking for input on my situation, I'm just trying to share a negative experience with an artist and let people take from it what they will.

But while we're on the subject, yes, it /was/ a concrete agreement. We each laid out terms and agreed to meet them. According to US law, that's enough to constitute a binding contract, so I think at the very least it constitutes a concrete agreement.

And once more, my major issue was not that he failed to deliver, my issue was the way he treated me in doing so. I did not choose for him to treat me as such, and it was because of the way he acted that my time and energy was wasted.
(no subject) - lilenth - Feb. 11th, 2011 03:24 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sfaosttrack20 - Feb. 11th, 2011 03:45 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Feb. 11th, 2011 08:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
hybrid_xisha
Feb. 10th, 2011 11:40 pm (UTC)
I don't have advice for this post--I just wanted to congratulate you for staying so calm and rational even when it seemed like people were just responding to this post to attack you. If only all posters (of entries or comments) could be more like this!
sfaosttrack20
Feb. 11th, 2011 12:50 am (UTC)
Thank you, I appreciate it.
(no subject) - stormslegacy - Feb. 12th, 2011 06:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - frazzled_niya - Feb. 13th, 2011 11:18 am (UTC) - Expand
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