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I'VE UPDATED THE MAIN POST regarding my issues with this artist. My question is, after reading all of it and watching the video, should I proceed with court?

EDIT: This is what she claims the costs were:
"Your funds were pooled to buy the furs (all 6 of them for your suit), foams, and other small things. Furs usually cost around $15 a pound if I buy by the pound and at least $20 plus shipping by the yard online. Foam depends on density and weight but is usually sold by the pound locally. Your funds were combined with other commissioners funds to buy 3 yards of long white (by the yard online), 2 yards of long black fur (by the yard online), 1 pound of medium white (locally), 2 pounds short black (locally), 1 pound medium black (locally), 5 pounds of foam (locally) along with other small things like thread and such.
The furs alone came out to over $140 not including shipping and tax
The foam was about $30
The other miscellaneous materials I would estimate around $15
All of these materials and such would have been used to make your suit plus some materials I had already purchased such as paint, mesh, felt, liner, fun foam, sculpty, rubber coat, kevlar thread and more. The pool of funds was also used to pay for the shipping for your box, though most commissioners are required to pay for their own shipping."
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Comments

( 88 comments — Leave a comment )
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celestinaketzia
Dec. 8th, 2010 04:20 am (UTC)
Hmm, I would like to know from any suit makers if that looks like $90 worth of materials. I have zero experience with making suit heads, and that looks like a small amount of items...
shadowedyoshii
Dec. 8th, 2010 04:39 am (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and say "not even KIND OF". Maybe, if she was counting the cost of the raw materials she purchased? But the amount she sent was in no way worth 90$, nor was it enough to make a head. Going by his named list, I'll try and itemize it the best I can. I'ma completely guesstimate, so others can amend as they see, but as I see it:

- Various bits of foam

Foam is kind of hard to price, because it varies a lot depending on density, thickness, etc. But, there seemed to be three big chunks and a roll of 1/2". I'd estimate it at 15$ worth of foam, maybe.

- Glue sticks: About 5$/100 retail, cheaper offline, he didn't get anywhere near that many.

- Elastic: 1-2$ for 5 yards or so, depending on thickness.

- Stuffing: 3$ for 16oz.

- Fun Foam: lol like 0.25$

-Furs: Are about 20$ a yard. She named six different kinds, but included a very small amount of each.

-Mesh: Like... 1-2$ per yard depending on type.

-Felt: 0.25$ per square foot.

-Needle: Varies, negligible, honestly.

-Thread: Again, such a small amount, negligible?

So, MAYBE if she'd sent a full half yard of EACH type of fur, AND more foam, then it would have been worth 90$, but yeah, that is not 90$ worth of materials at all.

And frankly, I don't think it's anywhere enough materials to make a head, either way. I'm honestly struggling as to how you could use those pieces of foam to make a head. Like... maybe? Make a muzzle/cheeks and such out of the cylinder and blocks, and the 1/2" for details and ears, attaching it all to a balaclava? But that's still not really enough fur without some frankensteining, IMO.
(no subject) - msmanuscript - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:52 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - msmanuscript - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 05:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ducttapeninja - Dec. 9th, 2010 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - plushabilities - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:56 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - msmanuscript - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - plushabilities - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:48 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadowedyoshii - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - msmanuscript - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:55 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - plushabilities - Dec. 8th, 2010 05:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 05:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - Dec. 8th, 2010 06:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 08:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 08:07 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - Dec. 8th, 2010 08:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 09:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gel_wolf - Dec. 8th, 2010 07:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 08:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 08:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - poizenkat - Dec. 14th, 2010 01:47 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Dec. 8th, 2010 08:07 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - frazzled_niya - Dec. 8th, 2010 05:52 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - plushabilities - Dec. 8th, 2010 03:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 8th, 2010 06:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 8th, 2010 06:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peas_n_rice - Dec. 8th, 2010 09:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
skulldog
Dec. 8th, 2010 04:24 am (UTC)
I can't judge the value, as small pieces of material are hard to put value one compared to say, a full half yard of fabric would be. But I can say, that sure doesn't look like enough material to make a head out of, which would have been the point of getting back the materials right?

(Deleted comment)
celestinaketzia
Dec. 8th, 2010 04:35 am (UTC)
It looks like she's nuking any evidence of wrong-doing off of her page. As much as I love FA's new comment hiding system, this kinda stinks.
(no subject) - kayla_la - Dec. 8th, 2010 04:40 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peas_n_rice - Dec. 8th, 2010 09:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
msmanuscript
Dec. 8th, 2010 04:41 am (UTC)
Frankly, I'm stunned by the materials in the box. I honestly expected her to give you ratty usable strips. At the same time, that is NOT enough fur for the character referenced. Not at all. That short black fur is pitiful.

Her attitude was extremely poor. I suggest finding out what sites she got the fur from, pricing it, and finding out exactly how much was actually in the box. If it doesn't total up to $90, take her to court. She didn't deliver what was promised. The only problem I see is you not having the original TOS that you agreed to. However, if you have all the notes where she agreed to the refund, then changed her mind, you have a standing.

Also, she used your money for materials along with a pool from everyone else? That saves on money, so there was left over money from the shopping she did. She should have been able to afford shipping it out at any time. So, okay, you decided to cancel the commission and simply get the materials. The fact that she couldn't ship it out due to money means she spent it on items NOT for your head.

She should have been able to send it any time. Her attitude, reluctance to refund or ship, and her constant changing of her story and TOS and her attacks will favor the judge to your case. In such, it would be her to pay the bill, not yours should you (more than likely) win. This is my understanding.
msmanuscript
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:20 am (UTC)
Reading some comments, I feel I should add:

$90 isn't a LOT of money in the way of fursuits, this is true. And going to court may not be a good idea. However.

This girl is going to get away with stealing. She got $90, missed a dead-line, acted childish, and gave $40-$50 worth of items, if that. And if nothing more goes on, she learns that ti's okay to act like a child and steal because people are going to get tired of dealing with her, and just let her get away with it.

If she's taken to court, she'll see that no one is putting up with her attitude and that she can't get away with stealing money from people. It's a good lesson for her to learn, as she's hiding all the evidence outside of the community. So people are going to get burned by her again. She needs to learn that there are repercussions to her actions, she can't just flake it off with "annoy me, and be annoyed."
ichi_black
Dec. 8th, 2010 04:53 am (UTC)
...... wow....

Holy crap.... I am totally out of words.. I'll consider myself stupidly lucky that I got my half of the trade out of her than.. Good lord.. :|
_gilligan_
Dec. 8th, 2010 05:00 am (UTC)
It might be $90 if she was inculding shipping into that price.
But yeah the materials alone arn't worth $90.
neolucky
Dec. 8th, 2010 05:28 am (UTC)
Small claims may not be worth the time, effort and money spent over $90, frankly. And no, that box doesn't have nearly the right amount of materials for a head in it, nor worth that price tag. Her attitude is absolutely atrocious as well.

But to go to court?...not worth it in my eyes.
ellonwye
Dec. 8th, 2010 05:43 am (UTC)
I'm clueless about fursuit making but to me it looks like she just sent you scraps of fur she already had lying around, and not fur that was specifically purchased for you. Probably why it's in such small amounts, and the wrong colour.
jakejynx
Dec. 8th, 2010 05:45 am (UTC)
This is how I would price things, given my experience, based on what appears to be the approximate sizes of what you received:

(in order of removal from box)
Camel fur: $4
Black (long): $4
Black (short): $1
White (short): $2
White (long): $4
Black (very short): $1-2
Black and pink felt (?): $1
White foamie and polyfil stuffing: $1
Thick foam block: $2-4
Round foam block: $3-5
Roll of foam: $3-4
Gluesticks: $1
Green foam: $2-4
Thread: $1
Needle: $1
Elastic: $1

So yeah, I'd estimate about $40 worth of materials. I'm tempted to price things high and incorporate things like original shipping price into how she estimated her prices (so a $20 yard of fur would actually be worth $30, therefore a 1/4 yard would be worth $7 instead of $5), but even doing that, it would still wind up short. And you shouldn't be responsible for paying full shipping price on furs she ordered.

Yes, you got ripped off. You expected $90 worth of material and received much less than that. But should you take her to court? As much as I hate to say it, I don't think it's worth it. You'd be taking her to court for $90, or the difference between what you paid and what you received, which would be very difficult for a court to determine. I just don't think it would be worth your time and energy. It sucks, but maybe at this point you should just consider cutting your losses and moving on.
jakejynx
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:24 am (UTC)
You know, I may be reconsidering the issue of court. I think just threatening her might be enough to get compliant. People tend to pay a lot more attention to issues when there's the threat of true retaliation.

Maybe let her know that she'll be required to provide proof of all of the receipts for the items if you take her to court. And you might also want to mention that apparently she doesn't find it necessary to keep receipts? Well, if she's making money with fursuits, she is required by law to pay taxes on that income. No receipts=no taxes. So it would be fun to explain that to the courts and, you know, the IRS.

Point is, if you take her to court, I have no doubt that you'll win with all of the proof you have, and the fact that there's no way she can show that what was in that box was worth $90. And I'd be confident that threatening her and making it clear that she will be in serious hot water if you do take her to court would probably get her to act. It's just going to boil down to whether or not you want to go through the effort. If you win, I do believe she'll be required to pay court costs if you include that in what you're suing for, but there's still the filing fees and things like time and missed work for the court date.
(no subject) - msmanuscript - Dec. 8th, 2010 07:10 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peas_n_rice - Dec. 8th, 2010 09:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
sophie_manx
Dec. 8th, 2010 05:46 am (UTC)
I have to throw in my two cents. At the risk of sounding ignorant, wouldn't the lawyer and legal fees be more than $90 dollars? Unless its a matter of principal?
kayla_la
Dec. 8th, 2010 05:50 am (UTC)
Usually, the loser pays the legal fees, so the winner isn't really out much more than their time/gas money/etc.

Usually.
(no subject) - sophie_manx - Dec. 8th, 2010 06:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Dec. 8th, 2010 06:20 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - onfourwejump - Dec. 9th, 2010 12:50 am (UTC) - Expand
sunhawk
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:08 am (UTC)
I can't comment on the worth of the materials but either way, what a horrid ordeal and what an unprofessional attitude she had about the whole issue, I'm sorry ://
marus_puppy
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:19 am (UTC)
I'd like to agree with the others about the cost of court versus what you paid. Unless you have a family member or friend who's a lawyer and could help you out, you may just have to suck it up... :/ I'm sorry, dude. Your whole situation really sucks.
celestinaketzia
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:36 am (UTC)
IRRC, you don't need a lawyer for small claims.
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Dec. 8th, 2010 03:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aerospiritual - Dec. 8th, 2010 08:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Dec. 9th, 2010 04:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - monogato - Dec. 8th, 2010 11:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
connorgoodwolf
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:28 am (UTC)
I think you need to involve FurAffinity staff, this is going way too far. Now she is now opened up for commissions, again.
jakejynx
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:35 am (UTC)
Yeah, I was just going to say, it bothers me that two hours ago she posted up a journal for how to get a quote from her, and that some people seem eager to set up a commission or trade with her. Is it against community rules to link her potential customers to these posts?
(no subject) - connorgoodwolf - Dec. 8th, 2010 06:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - connorgoodwolf - Dec. 8th, 2010 07:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sepp - Dec. 8th, 2010 09:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Dec. 8th, 2010 05:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
gel_wolf
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:48 am (UTC)
=C while I can totally see how she could, in theory, have spent at least or over $90 on those supplies ( often, fur isn't sold in less than half yard increments, so if you only need a bit, you have to overbuy )

That being said, that is NOT $90 worth of supplies. And there is definitely not enough fur or foam there to make a head. Not even close :|

Also, knowing just how hard it is to perfectly color match browns... That brown she sent you is ridiculous. I would bet money that she just grabbed some brown fur she had lying around. It's not even sort of close to the same color. e___e DF's is NOT the only place to buy fur, kiddies.
gel_wolf
Dec. 8th, 2010 06:56 am (UTC)
Forgot to add...

I think court at this point would be going a little too far. She REALLY needs to be taught a lesson, but honestly, she sent you something. It's no longer a cut and dried 'she took my money' sort of case, and I think you might have trouble convincing a court that what she sent you isn't $90 worth of materials. I think you'd probably just end up out the money for lawyers and court fees, and honestly that's probably not worth it for a possible discrepancy of about $30 worth of fur and foam =/
(no subject) - jakejynx - Dec. 8th, 2010 07:41 am (UTC) - Expand
fenrirs_child
Dec. 8th, 2010 10:26 am (UTC)
*let me preface this with "I completely disagree with the way she handled this"*

BUT,

the original deposit generally is explained as materials cost, as that is what most of the money goes towards, but it is also for the time spent finding and ordering these materials as well... though take into consideration that most makers only require 30% as a deposit, and there's no way in hell that stuff comes even close to $60. I lived in AZ, which is where all of this debacle is happening. She is probably going to SAS fabrics, where you can buy fur and fabric by the pound, and sometimes it is in smallish remnants. BUT IT IS REMARKABLY INEXPENSIVE. Nowhere near what she is claiming. I got enough extra long pile fur to make a whole fully padded, plus size, tall suit and head and oversized tail for about $100 there, so this seems like a huge attempt to pull the wool over your eyes. I generally use about one yard of fur to make a full head and neck, with some left over. She didn't even send you that much fur all combined :/ I believe what she did is send you the *$45* worth of materials that was originally the agreed upon refund, though arguably I don't even think that is $45 worth there...

tl;dr-i think this is supposed to be a $45 refund worth of materials
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