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DZ/ Wasteland Project Zero

I came across this guy on the FA Black Market forums. He needed art for his post-apocalyptic flash game based on Fallout.

The link for the thread on the forum: http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/80156-Need-art-for-my-Post-Apocalyptic-RPG

I was desperate for work, so I put a bid in, and he ended up sending me a PM. Right off the bat he wanted me to draw a sketch without compensation first. I mentioned it, and he said:

"I need a finished piece with well detailed background and character and stuff, I'm just not yet sure whether I want YOU to do it.

Start working on it, show me some sketch or something so that I could decide whether I want you to keep working on it or not. "

This obviously should have been my first warning. I declined, saying I don't do spec work, but he assured me I'd get paid, so I was stupid and agreed.

Here's the sketch I did for him: http://s234.photobucket.com/albums/ee261/saeto15/wasteland_sketch.jpg

He liked the sketch, and sent me this:

"Looks great

1 000px × 778px scales down to 800x622 so the bottom must be cut. I need a 800x600 pic.
Its gonna be something like this http://pawsru.org/dz/src/dz167_1.jpg

Can you make a "Project Wasteland 0" sign on top of it? In some stylish way that would fit the setting?
Or better make it in a separate file with alpha, so that I could put it wherever I want?"

So now he wants me to design a logo for the piece as well, without compensation for that. I sent him a message trying to clarify where he wanted me to go from there:

"Just a question- did you want that pic finished? What I sent you is just a sketch.

As for the "Project Wasteland" title, I don't have much expertise in font work. You can find a bunch of cool fonts over at dafont.com. The only thing I could do is find a cool-looking one, download it, and slap it on the sketch. "

His reply: "Yes, I want it finished, colored and well detailed.
As for the font - my artist says the same =\ And I dont want to use fonts."

So I figured I'd attempt to do the logo for cheap, since I really don't have much experience designing logos, though I do have a degree in Illustration and have had to do them in the past, something I brought up:

"Okay. I quoted you $45 for the finished piece, and will require payment up front this time around. It'll just be another $25.

I can also attempt to design a logo for you in Illustrator if you throw in $15. It'd be in its own file (.gif or .ai) so you could use it wherever you needed. I don't have much experience in logo design, but I was required to take a class in it for my degree, so I do know the basics."

His response:

"I've sent you 25$ more.

If you don't have experience in logo design then dont ask for money up front! I will pay only if I like it."

In the meantime I'd PM'd another artist who had dealt with him. Her advice was to run like hell. So when I received that reply, I figured I'd had enough:

"Yeah, you know what, I think I've had enough of this. You can use the sketch, but keep in mind the rights still belong to me, so no having anyone else colour it. I've sent a refund of your $25.00 back.

You should treat your artists with more respect."

His enlightening rebuttal:

"fuck you"

As I said, I was desperate for work, so I was really undercharging this guy ($45 for the digital painting when I normally charge $100). I was trying to be nice, because he game sounded interesting, and I love Fallout-themed stuff. Either he's really that immature, or he's just trying to scam art out of people who don't know any better. Either way, this guy's definitely a "beware".

Edit: Just to clear some stuff up, I did get paid for the sketch, but only after the fact. The prices were set by me. The reason I posted this beware is because of his bad attitude and shady practices.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


( 52 comments — Leave a comment )
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Sep. 12th, 2010 07:04 pm (UTC)
This is why I avoid the Black Market forums like the plague now. Way too many entitled people who think artists are PRIVILEGED to work on their stupid commission for next to nothing. Way too many scams. I got tired of people expecting me to do them amazing coloured art for five dollars and 'If I really like your work, I might throw in 2-3 dollars extra! Now lick my boots, slave!'.

You'd be better off looking for work elsewhere. The people in that forum have been spoiled by artists who fall all over themselves to undercut each other and take sweatshop worker prices on big projects.
Sep. 13th, 2010 02:56 am (UTC)
Yeah, that's the only reason I undercut myself in the price. I needed the money, and a lot of people looking for art on that forum are willing to settle for less.
(no subject) - underthebed - Sep. 13th, 2010 04:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - saeto15 - Sep. 13th, 2010 06:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bagheera - Sep. 16th, 2010 12:59 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 12th, 2010 07:11 pm (UTC)
and here's another flash "developer" who treats artists like shit.
Sep. 12th, 2010 07:40 pm (UTC)
Ugh, that's disgusting. And the attitude, sweet jebus.
Sep. 12th, 2010 08:27 pm (UTC)
Yeesh! What a horrible awful attitude!

Seems like this isn't the first time this guy has abused artists by how quickly it snowballs going from asking to demanding and "MAYBE if you're good enough for my princess-like entitlement I'll give you a crust of bread to eat, back to work, slave!"
Sep. 12th, 2010 08:30 pm (UTC)
Only pay if he's satisfied?
Pfft, try pulling that one in a restaurant, whatta maroon!
Sep. 12th, 2010 10:40 pm (UTC)
I agree, he seems like he can pull the hirte's way. "I DO NOT LIKE THIS, I DEMAND FULL REFUND" (after who knows how many sketches and changes.. )
Sep. 12th, 2010 08:41 pm (UTC)
If you don't have experience in logo design then dont ask for money up front! I will pay only if I like it.

That made me rage. As well as the following. Ugh. Thank you for posting this
Sep. 12th, 2010 09:03 pm (UTC)
He complained about you in his post on the BM forums.

Would you mind me posting this thread there so people can be aware of his behaviour? He's calling you names and it bothers me that other people are going to be suckered.
Sep. 12th, 2010 09:06 pm (UTC)
He also says your sketch is worth 'maybe 10', which is insane because it's a really nice sketch!! I could easily see a sketch like that going for 30.
(no subject) - starcharmer - Sep. 12th, 2010 09:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - saeto15 - Sep. 13th, 2010 02:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - theflamecrow - Sep. 12th, 2010 11:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - alpharaye - Sep. 13th, 2010 02:45 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - duster - Sep. 12th, 2010 09:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Sep. 12th, 2010 09:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - starcharmer - Sep. 12th, 2010 09:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cesarin - Sep. 12th, 2010 10:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bladespark - Sep. 12th, 2010 11:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - saeto15 - Sep. 13th, 2010 02:59 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kyetsu - Sep. 12th, 2010 11:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cesarin - Sep. 13th, 2010 03:10 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 12th, 2010 11:13 pm (UTC)
just a headsup, he's starting to try to send all the blame to you..

shit like this really pisses me off..
Sep. 13th, 2010 02:59 am (UTC)
Hah, I love how everyone thinks I'm a guy.

Anyway, his whining just makes him sound even more immature, so I'm not really worried.
(no subject) - cesarin - Sep. 13th, 2010 03:10 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - louveg - Sep. 14th, 2010 12:09 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 13th, 2010 08:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 13th, 2010 08:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cesarin - Sep. 13th, 2010 03:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fastbreak333 - Sep. 14th, 2010 10:43 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 12th, 2010 11:43 pm (UTC)
I just went and read through that thread. The BIGGEST red flag possible is when he publicly tells somebody that sorry, they're not good enough. After having PMed them something or other, so it's not as though he doesn't know how to use PMs.

For heaven's sake! You tell somebody they're not good enough in private! Not in public! That is incredibly rude.
Sep. 12th, 2010 11:45 pm (UTC)
I saw that, it made me feel hurt FOR that user.

You say 'Sorry, you're not quite what I'm looking for' and leave it at that. He seems to go out of his way to be hurtful.
(no subject) - kyetsu - Sep. 13th, 2010 12:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lichdog - Sep. 13th, 2010 12:23 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 12th, 2010 11:45 pm (UTC)
He does realize that if he wants quality work for is game, he is going to have to pony up a decent amount of money, right? I was highly tempted to post on his thread, but I decided it wasn't a good idea.

Kyle, your work is a -steal-. :(

Edited at 2010-09-12 11:49 pm (UTC)
Sep. 13th, 2010 12:57 am (UTC)
Jesus, that "i respectfully wish him chronic diarrhea" comment just pushed over the line from disrespectful to downright asshole.

Fuck him, Kyle, your work is awesome. I might have to get a speedpaint from you someday.
Sep. 13th, 2010 01:05 am (UTC)
Please do try to avoid namecalling, even if I agree with you. ;)
(no subject) - dodger_greywing - Sep. 13th, 2010 01:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Sep. 13th, 2010 01:06 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - saeto15 - Sep. 13th, 2010 04:09 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - saeto15 - Sep. 13th, 2010 03:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cesarin - Sep. 13th, 2010 03:11 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 13th, 2010 02:49 am (UTC)
Just wow.
You did well in cutting him off at the pass and not dealing with him anymore.
It's just really sad that people expect to get something for nothing and the "I'll pay you if I like it".
Um, no, if you agree to something you pay for it.

:( Sadfais.
(Deleted comment)
Sep. 13th, 2010 08:06 am (UTC)
holy shit, this guy really likes to trow all his frustrations indirectly like a coward, and then raise his hands and claim "ITS NOT MY FAULT"
this guy is a gem... in the bad way
(no subject) - wildehund - Sep. 14th, 2010 02:07 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 13th, 2010 06:06 am (UTC)
what a .......so and so *twitch* thanks for the beware...This dude hella takes the cake, what a horrible attitude to have, especially if you need an artist to work for you. ._. I hope we can warn many others against doing anything for this guy...
Sep. 14th, 2010 10:41 am (UTC)
This guy is trying to find any way possible to shift the blame away from him. He continues to believe that he's in the right and doesn't find wishing somebody diarrhea as rude as wishing somebody cancer.

What an awful person. If any of my friends consider business with him, I'm going to tell them to stay the hell away.
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( 52 comments — Leave a comment )


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