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A bad- and lengthy- experience

I am extremely disappointed and pissed with the artist formerly known as Panchi Tiger. This is something I have refrained from speaking about for over a year, but enough is enough.


But let's go into a simple background first, though:

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/panchi-tiger this is his original account
And this http://www.furaffinity.net/user/superslickslasher/ is his new one



Two years ago this May I paid him for a sketch commission, $25. Our exchange was something like this (fortunately I never delete my messages from FA, even after having read them):

=======================================
Sent By: Maus_Merryjest On: May 28th, 2008 12:00

Dear Panch, are you currently open for commissions?

Yours truly,
M. Merryjest.
=======================================

He replied:

Sent By: panchi-tiger On: May 28th, 2008 11:59

I'm open as long as you have money, bud.

Sorry, but due to my needing money as well as being busy, the pricelist has been bumped up a little bit.
$35 or $40 for a colored, BG'ed single character picture... but the complexity of the character and backdrop (wings, waterfalls etc.) can bump the price up a bit.
Additional characters are typically from $10 to $20, but then again, the complexity can bump (or lower) the price.

Sorry if it puts you off... Tell me what you want... and if my quoted price is too much, I'm willing to negotiate.

Thanks bud!
============================

Sent By: Maus_Merryjest On: May 28th, 2008 12:32

Oh no, the price isn't unreasonable at all. I want some character pictures for the game I am creating, so they would actually be cell-shaded colored without a background. All in all, there's eight character pictures (six furries, two humans) that will be used, with the possibility of one or two extra characters depending on development. How much would the individual price for each picture go?

Feel free to contact me at my AIM. I'd love to talk things over and chat.

Hope to hear from you soon :)

============================


We made contact on AIM, and reached a decision.
I send him the money through paypal.
Then came the wait... and the wait, and nothing. I sent him messages, and nothing. And then, finally, more than a year later:

========================================
Sent By: panchi-tiger On: June 1st, 2009 11:38

Clearing my outbox today I realised that the email I sent with your commission had failed, and it was addressed to the wrong person. DX
Man, I am so sorry! I had no idea! My internet and computer access has been so shakey, and I haven't been able to check FA notes and such for so long! I woulda spotted this months ago if I had steady net access...
I'm on a different computer now, but I promise that as soon as I access my old one, I'll send it to you.

Oh man you must be so mad... ;-;

I'll try to get you that pic ASAP! I'm so sorry!
========================================

Sent By: panchi-tiger On: June 2nd, 2009 12:44

If you look at my journal, I've opened sketch commissions because of certain events. I'm aware I greatly inconvenienced you, bud, and I'm really sorry for it. Although I didn't mean to do that, I feel I should repay you. If you're interested, I'm offering to give you a sketch commish, completely free of charge. Once again, I am so sorry for this. God, this is so embarrassing...
=========================================

Still believing he was genuine, I replied:

Sent By: Maus_Merryjest On: June 3rd, 2009 02:54

Panchi, I cannot answer you right now as I am preparing to leave for D.C., but on the 4th I'll be able to contact you with a proposal for an art project that will not only help your situation and help you make up for the faux pas, but also has the possibility of providing you with revenue beyond the commission circle if you are interested in it.

-Maus
========================================
Days passed, no reply, so I went ahead with his offer of the sketch, restating exactly what I had asked for a year ago:

Sent By: Maus_Merryjest On: June 13th, 2009 12:27

I haven't received a reply concerning my offer, so right now I'll just give you the information for the picture you offered.

Maus Merryjest, 22, Plantigrade Siberian Tiger
(description cut out so you don't die of boredom)

If you are still interested in what I was going to propose to you, please tell me.
=======================================
Sent By: Maus_Merryjest On: June 14th, 2009 01:38

Concerning the sketch, I would be willing to pay extra to have it turned into a color picture. What would the rate be?
=======================================


No reply. Again, for months. Eventually, I got pissed off and sent this message:


=======================================
Sent By: Maus_Merryjest On: October 19th, 2009 03:11

Let's just be frank about it- you are never going to actually do what I commissioned you to do. Just return the money via paypal as soon as possible and let's forget about this whole thing- it's been a year and a half already and I no longer have either sense of humor nor patience.
=======================================


Silence. Again.

Now, the worst part of it all is that throughout all this, I keep seeing new art that he's churning out for other people. This severely does piss me off, as it is the height of both rudeness and lack of consideration, pretending he can't do art while he takes no pains to hide that he can.

Then, he stopped posting art on the panchi account and I became suspicious. And one day I came across a picture that had all of the markings of his style--- if there is one thing I pride myself on, it is being able to recognize an artist by his or her style. I knew this was Panchi. The username read SuperSlickSlasher, and I thought "Aha!" and I +favorited him, to see if it would get some reaction from him.

A few weeks later, I receive this in my inbox:

========================================
Sent By: SuperslickSlasher On: June 26th, 2010 01:48

Yo Maus! Thanks for the faves. ^^ (It's me - Panch!)

Glad you came about! I'll be honest, I've forgotten to try to contact you (haven't been to my old account in a while - still planning to use it for clean stuff, as this one is made for adult stuff).

Shit, dude. Sorry I've forgotten to contact you. I guess I've been caught up in my own life. ^^; Not sure if you read the journal on my panch account, but I had to get a new computer because my old one kinda died. Haven't been able to get all my HD recovered yet.

You alright? You must be real furious at me for forgetting all this time. I apologize, but it's fine if you don't wanna forgive me. I can send you back the $25 you sent me if you'd like, even if I'd already got the pics down on my old computer, it's taken far to long to recover it, so I really think I owe you the cash back.

Anyway, note me back, y'here?
==========================================

At this point, his onion of excuses (layer upon layer...) has begun to piss me off, so I toss his note aside while I work on my recital material. All this time, I thought, "Does he think I am mentally deficient? He tells me he can't give me the images I paid for because they're trapped somewhere in his defunct hard-drive...but it is obvious he has TWO FUNCTIONING HANDS, and that they are producing art for other people who pay him. I did not order full digital, I did not order a complex masterpiece. All I purchased were character sketches, things he could produce faster than full-blown commissions. No, I don't believe his excuses one bit."

Eventually I cool down enough to reply:
===========================================
Sent By: Maus_Merryjest On: August 14th, 2010 08:19

I already knew it was you. Your style is not hard to miss, account name regardless. Truthfully I would prefer to have the commission for which I paid, but if you choose to return the money go ahead. I will review you accordingly.
=============================================



So, to recap: to the date of the message, I had not seen anything but excuses. His main excuse? The sketch is in his old broken down computer. But as you can see by his two account pages, that hasn't stopped him from drawing new art.

Well, I kept my eyes open, and I saw he had posted this "I need money, buy sketch commissions" journal. Among the many responses, I posted this one: "I would order one, but you burned me."


I suddenly get a PM not ten hours after my post. And what, boys and girls, did he say on that note? Care to guess?


=================================
Sent By: SuperslickSlasher On: August 27th, 2010 04:18

Sorry for the slow replies. While my tablet pen is broken I haven't been online much.

I apologize again dude, but considering I've offered you a refund at least twice during our various correspondences, you know it ain't a matter of me being a sleaze. ^^;
If you'd still prefer to get the picture instead of a refund, you'll have to wait until I get a monitor so I can get crap off my old computer. I'm sorry, but there's really nothing else I can do about it. I totally understand you being pissed about it, but these things just happen. :(

Shoot an email my way if you ever change your mind about my offer for a refund, or if you need to contact me for anything else - okay man? :)

I'm also doing my best to avoid drama around FA - especially due to the fact that my financial position is fragile, to say the least - and my commission-work is my one source of income right now - so I'd much prefer to discuss things privately. My email is (email removed) - don't be a stranger.
=====================================



This just took the cake, so I replied:



=====================================
Sent By: Maus_Merryjest On: August 27th, 2010 08:45

So you've been without a monitor for two years? Or you're saying that in the last two years you were unable somehow to create a new work to compensate for the one you lost, although quite capable of creating new work for others? There are a lot of excuses here, there have always been a lot of excuses in your messages and never anything concrete. I'm not interested in excuses.

You have had plenty of opportunities to redeem yourself- money isn't the issue, it is the principle involved. You have obviously had plenty of time and opportunity to produce a sketch, considering everything else you've done for other people. You are right: this isn't sleazy behavior, it's insulting behavior.

It seems to me that if you cared about your only source of income, you would treat your costumers better than you have treated me. I commissioned you because I saw you had talent and were in financial straits, and commissioning you seemed like a good way to benefit both parties. Little did I know that you would treat me in a manner that belies no shame. If this is your approach to your customers, I am not surprised that you are in a fragile financial position. Your urges to discuss this 'privately' only demonstrate how much you do know of how shamefully you have acted, and continue to act.

n't do anything on the sly. With this new shameless attempt at saving face, I have half a mind to speak of my experiences in Artists Beware. I honestly cannot believe you would approach me in this manner to appease me, bearing nothing whatsoever except more excuses.

~M.M
============================================================


Now, you will notice he has made many allusions to his offer to refund me. Well, remember that to his PREVIOUS post, on August 14th, I actually said:
"I already knew it was you. Your style is not hard to miss, account name regardless. Truthfully I would prefer to have the commission for which I paid, but if you choose to return the money go ahead. I will review you accordingly. "

Despite his protestations of returning money, it never showed up at my paypal account at any of these occasions. Up until the last message posted, the money had never been refunded- read further down for the update on that.

So I'm pissed. When I pony up, I want what I paid for- it's all about how well you treat your customer. It's not about money anymore, it's about the principle of the thing and how I have been treated by him- in the most cavalier fashion possible, when I approached him to actually help him out and get the benefit of his art in the process.

I've kept this to myself for far too long. Now it's out in the open. IF he had been man enough to say "I fucked up. I am not going to give you any excuses, I'll just draw you a picture and show you I mean it when it's done", I would not have been pissed-- annoyed? Yes, but not pissed. But the cavalcade of excuses AND the hint that we 'discuss things privately' told me once and for all what kind of person I was dealing with: He knew precisely what he had done to me, and he didn't want people to hear about how he had treated me, lest they realize they might get treated the same and not be so generous with the green.

He did finally refund me on the second of September, but I feel it's worth mentioning that he was a poor person to work with and you might want to think twice. In all the time I've commissioned artists, I have to say that his is the worst experience I have had and it has robbed me of any sympathy I originally had for his money problems. Like they say where I come from, 'Quien no te conozca, que te compre!' (Let someone who doesn't know who you are buy you).
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 55 comments — Leave a comment )
2cuxi
Sep. 7th, 2010 08:35 pm (UTC)
It's so strange to me, these situations. Millions of people worldwide suffer from personal problems and financial problems (artists and otherwise), yet they seem to do the work expected of them. It's a theme here on A_B that we run into people who feel they are so plagued by problems that they can't deliver. One or two people with dire issues I can understand, but these folks ALL want to be that "special exception" and they use similar excuses. As an artist, I know how hard it can be to pick up your pencil and draw when you feel like crap, let alone when it's not even art that's for yourself. Yet, financial motivation should be enough of a kick in the pants for us to get it done.

It just doesn't fly, these tired old excuses.

I'm sorry for your experience and thanks for the warning. It's a shame. I like his style.
louveg
Sep. 7th, 2010 10:31 pm (UTC)
Besides, I've felt out of the loop to draw before. And it lasted a couple of days, maybe two weeks or so. And I did offer refunds for people who did not wish to wait since at the time it started I wasn't sure how long it'd take to come back. I did not wait for people to ask me, I noticed I hadn't been able to draw for a few days in a row so immediately sent emails offering refunds.

While I can understand the feeling, I have a hard time seeing dragging this for so long...
(no subject) - silverfalln - Sep. 7th, 2010 10:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - duster - Sep. 7th, 2010 10:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - Sep. 7th, 2010 11:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - duster - Sep. 7th, 2010 10:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - glowstick_juice - Sep. 8th, 2010 12:23 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aerospiritual - Sep. 9th, 2010 05:10 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fastbreak333 - Sep. 9th, 2010 04:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kadaria - Sep. 7th, 2010 11:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Sep. 7th, 2010 11:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kadaria - Sep. 8th, 2010 06:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - saeto15 - Sep. 8th, 2010 01:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Sep. 8th, 2010 12:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
oceandezignz
Sep. 7th, 2010 09:08 pm (UTC)
Tablet pen broke = no online? I find that a tough pill to ahhh swallow. I've had my tablets go tits-up before and I'd still go online... tablets can't replace keyboards.
teacup_werewolf
Sep. 7th, 2010 09:17 pm (UTC)
Maybe the tablet was like his mouse
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Sep. 7th, 2010 09:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gel_wolf - Sep. 7th, 2010 09:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nuclearninja - Sep. 8th, 2010 12:24 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - foxhack - Sep. 8th, 2010 04:17 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - frazzled_niya - Sep. 8th, 2010 08:25 am (UTC) - Expand
mialattia
Sep. 7th, 2010 10:21 pm (UTC)
What riles me about this correspondence is his completely unapologetic chummy manner. He's like HEY BRO SORRY HAHA MESSAGE ME BACK, Y'HEAR?

It's completely uncalled for, unprofessional, and downright condescending in the context. Obviously he's trying to keep up a facade that, he assumes, will keep you off guard.

I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with this attitude as well as severe tardiness and lack of communication.
mandyseley
Sep. 8th, 2010 12:48 am (UTC)
This.

Maybe it's just me, but in a business transaction, "casual terms of endearment" come across as condescending and rude... you wouldn't call your boss or your client "bud, hun, sweetie" or anything like that, it's just not professional. Why people think that's okay online is beyond me...
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Sep. 8th, 2010 01:08 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - Sep. 8th, 2010 04:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mandyseley - Sep. 8th, 2010 12:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - Sep. 8th, 2010 04:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aerospiritual - Sep. 9th, 2010 05:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
frazzled_niya
Sep. 8th, 2010 08:27 am (UTC)
The OP from what I understand commissioned a pencil sketch? o_O I know not all people hang onto sketches for long periods or time...But still, and yes redrawing would have saved a lot of time and hassle. =\
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - frazzled_niya - Sep. 8th, 2010 01:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - frazzled_niya - Sep. 8th, 2010 01:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
shukivengeance
Sep. 7th, 2010 10:52 pm (UTC)

I am extremely disappointed and pissed with the artist formerly known as Panchi Tiger. This is something I have refrained from speaking about for over a year, but enough is enough. I know that some of you are his friends and that you will come up with as many excuses on his behalf as there are fish in the sea.

Yeah I understand that you're angry but was that line really necessary? The members of this community have done nothing to you so there's no need to have such an attitude.

I hope this situation can be resolved, being met with endless excuses and 'pally' behaviour is frustrating so I empathize.
maus_merryjest
Sep. 7th, 2010 11:09 pm (UTC)
You are right, of course, and I edited the post to reflect that!
(no subject) - shukivengeance - Sep. 8th, 2010 01:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Sep. 7th, 2010 11:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Sep. 8th, 2010 12:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marus_puppy - Sep. 8th, 2010 03:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
shadow_coon
Sep. 7th, 2010 11:37 pm (UTC)
I've commissioned this artist twice before and have never had an issue. In fact, he was incredibly polite (as he comes off in his responses to you as well, actually), kept great communication, was incredibly accommodating to my requests, and was just overall friendly and professional. :3

I'm sorry that you ended up having the experience that you did all the same, though. It's always unfortunate to see that, every now and then, even the most professional, polite, and talented artists will have one of those commission situations that just doesn't go the right way.

You did get a number of excuses, but I will say that, unlike a lot of these situations that arise in A_B, the artist in question wasn't using the excuses in a "Woe is me! How dare you expect me to work when I'm going through such troublesome times! Here's my laundry list of problems and you better feel sympathy for me or I'm going to drop your commission/put you lower in my queue/pee in your cereal/etc." fashion. He told you his issues and promptly apologized for the delays, which is a lot more professional than some of the stuff I've seen in here.

Mind you, I'm not trying to excuse or justify this situation at all; it was not handled appropriately on his part. The whole situation could have been rectified early on if he'd just re-sketched your picture and provided it to you in a timely fashion. I guess I thought I'd just chime in because I see a couple of responses referring to him being unapologetic, despite the fact that he not only apologizes in (almost?) every response, but also (again, unlike many targets here in A_B) owns up to the fact that he's screwed up. He's obviously not throwing himself at your knees and begging for forgiveness, but, unless I misread something, he did apologize numerous times.
stormslegacy
Sep. 8th, 2010 01:13 am (UTC)
Yea...apologies need to come with an action to back them up. That's a lot of apologizing and not a lot of doing. I don't think just saying the words = owning up.

I don't see why the artist didn't just give back the money (you don't need permission, you can force a refund easily) or jut give a new sketch. If he could keep making old sketches, why not just make a new one? And if he wanted to be really awesome, why not refund and then take as long as he needs to find and post the original?
(no subject) - maus_merryjest - Sep. 8th, 2010 01:53 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wolf_goat - Sep. 8th, 2010 04:32 am (UTC) - Expand
spiffystuff
Sep. 8th, 2010 12:54 am (UTC)
Well it sucks you didn't get your art, but why not just take the refund?
ichigoneko33
Sep. 8th, 2010 01:02 am (UTC)
By reading the end of it, I think he did get a refund and is just warning people and telling his experience. Least, that's what I think.
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Sep. 8th, 2010 01:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - maus_merryjest - Sep. 8th, 2010 01:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aerospiritual - Sep. 9th, 2010 05:21 am (UTC) - Expand
stormslegacy
Sep. 8th, 2010 01:05 am (UTC)
That's...not ok. I'd be pretty annoyed too. Nowhere does that explain why he couldn't get the sketch to you. Hell, if it really was messaged to the wrong address couldn't he forward it to you from his sent-box or something? That's so odd that he wouldn't just redo it. You also don't need any contact with someone to refund...you can just send it to their account.

leahtaur
Sep. 8th, 2010 01:57 am (UTC)
I don't understand how not having a second monitor means he can't get things off of his old HD. He has a new computer, and is probably using the same monitor from the old computer. So why can't he just hook up the monitor to the old comp and send himself the files in his email...? Or upload them to something like Windows Live Skydrive?

He seems pretty fly by night and though apologetic in words, uncaring in actions.
ladysnakebite
Sep. 8th, 2010 11:15 am (UTC)
If he got a laptop, it makes things more challenging w/the monitor situation.

Still though, shouldn't he be able to find it in his Sent box and then forward it to the RIGHT address? I mean clearly it's there, with the wrong address attached to it.
frazzled_niya
Sep. 8th, 2010 08:30 am (UTC)
....no words. I can understand if you HD dies but moniter trouble and no pen for the tablet? WTH?...No sorry, I draw on teh computer a LOT I HAVE a tablet AND a mouse (since y'know you can't game....with a tablet.)....Mind you I have moniters coming out of my ears.....
panch_tiger
Sep. 8th, 2010 01:13 pm (UTC)
Hello folks, I am panch-tiger. Firstly I would like to say that I deserve this. I won't try to make excuses, because really - a lot of the actions I took were inexcusable towards Maus, regardless of my personal circumstances.

I read a lot of "should have/could have"s in the post, and I do agree with all of them. However, I would like to say that for a long while now I haven't been in a good state of mind to make reasonable decisions. I don't want to come across making another excuse, but my actions were not intended to insult anyone. Nevertheless, because of my poor decision making, I have greatly wronged Maus, and all I can do at this point is to say that I am genuinely sorry and try to think of ways to make it up to him (if that is possible). I also did mention that I would submit his work when I get it, regardless of the refund.

I also apologize for being 'Chummy'. I wasn't aware it would make people feel insulted. Like Shadow_Coon said, I just talk friendly like that. Sure, it comes across as unprofessional... but this is FA. How professional can it be in the first place? I think a few people misunderstood my intentions there.

Once again, I'm sorry. I know what happened was inexcusable. If I lose customers over it, then it is something I deserve for wronging you.

I will contact you on whether there is anything I can do to make it up to you. I would really like to make things right with you if it is possible.
To show that I am really sorry, I will consider making it up to you my highest priority. Please give me one last chance (though I know I may not deserve it).


For others:
I won't be coming back to check for replies, etc, as I'm just dropping by to reply to this and leaving it at that.
marus_puppy
Sep. 8th, 2010 03:31 pm (UTC)
A business is a business, regardless of the fandom you cater to. It's up to you to act like a businessman, which means being professional. I realize you aren't going to keep coming back to this post, but you should get this response in an email and it's rather important that you know this little tidbit.
(no subject) - kayla_la - Sep. 8th, 2010 05:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
fastbreak333
Sep. 9th, 2010 04:08 pm (UTC)
Man, personal problems always plague good artists. It seems some people just don't have the resolve to keep going and just avoid their work. They need to own up to it or those commissioners will force them to do it.
keikan
Feb. 28th, 2013 04:09 am (UTC)
Hey guys,

Unfortunately, I've had a very similar experience with Panch as Maus did years ago.

I met him through a friend of mine, who also was Panch's RL partner (at the time, possibly also currently). Said partner mentioned to me that Panch needed to raise money and so he was doing commissions. I took him up on it for two pictures, both commissioned at different times in 2012.

The first one went relatively smoothly, and I'm still very pleased to this day with the results. When I paid, we figured a time to hook up for a stream so that, as he was doing the sketches, I could comment on them and any changes I'd like to see. This all went pretty smoothly, and though there was a delay of a couple of weeks in getting the fully colored picture, it eventually did happen.

Happy with that first experience, I commissioned him for another a few months later, and this went very similar to Maus' experience. Contact was intermittent at best, with apologies offered and promises that it was going to get done soon over the course of several months. No sketches were forthcoming, and eventually I started seeing other commissions pop up on his account from people who had (presumably) purchased them after I did.

I've chalked up the $70 I paid for the second commission as a loss at this point. My advice is that if you plan on getting some work from him, work out a specific time with him to do a sketch stream first, and don't pay until you've at least received that much.
( 55 comments — Leave a comment )

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