?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry

I've been meaning to join this community for a while since I've had a lot of trouble with certain artists/companies both online and IRL recently, so I hope I'm doing this right (first post and all.)

About... Oh, over a year now? Spring of my freshman year, I commissioned Genetic-Enigma to make a couples' badge thing for me and my boy. It was in a style he offered but had no examples for, so I was willing to be a guinea pig for it. I'm now going into my junior year and all I've seen of it are the inks.

I don't plan on asking for a refund for it or anything like that, but I want to warn anyone who is considering commissioning him that:
1) He WILL take forever to do it.
2) He will also continue to take commissions even if yours hasn't been finished. (This bothered me the most because I was seeing other full-color commissions that were taken after mine being completed before I had seen any progress on mine. Perhaps not strangely, they were mostly porn. -.- )
3) He, for whatever reason, doesn't like to show progress shots. Something about it slowing him down...
4) He is also not very on-top-of things as far as deadlines go. Last I heard from him, the badges were due to be sent out in June and I haven't heard if they've been sent and I haven't seen them yet.

So, to clarify I AM NOT SEEKING A REFUND OR ANYTHING, I JUST WANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW HOW THIS ARTIST OPERATES. COMMISSION HIM AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Edited for screencaps, etc:



A couple screenshots of the original back-and-forth with getting the commission settled. The date is January 25th, 2009

First journal where I'm listed on the commission list (unfortunately, FA doesn't like to keep dates on them longer than a few months, so all it says is "1 year"): http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/591798/

Emergency commission's journal, also dated a year ago: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/677235/

A note on commissions: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/717868/
The above journal is why I haven't hassled him at all. I'm not the kind of person who's really up front about pushing and prodding people in the first place (writing this right now is making me extremely nervous), so I sort of thought "as long as I comment on the update journals when they show up, it'll be fine."

The next journal in the list said that the $10 commissions are closed, but he's still taking them on another list. (I'll post that one if requested, I'm working backwards from the viewable journals list on FA.)

Another note to people waiting: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/899276/
And then there are two journals titled Up-Datey and Up-Dateyx2 where I've checked up on my status and then been on my way. Beyond here, the journals are dated by months until most recently.

A couple journals dated at 9 months, 8 months, 6 months, and 3 months just sort of updating on life and commission statuses: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1017235/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1064728/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1196687/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1368786/

And then the three most recent. The first is one opening up for commissions in June, and the second and third are another update on statuses, especially seeing things mailed out.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1426932/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1442887/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1482059/

The only image I've seen of the progress was 9 months ago according to the image file. I have no reason to assume it hasn't been accomplished as promised, I just haven't seen any progress shots on it. I trust the artist, but it's tough on the internet to be sure, ya know?

I hold no ill-will towards this artist, but I've since been told that I should no longer seek to commission him. Which I suppose is fine... Honestly, I WOULD consider commissioning him again because I really do like his work.

Edit edit: I see the moderators already noted this as a resolved "issue." Thanks, guys!
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 25 comments — Leave a comment )
badkitty
Aug. 8th, 2010 07:55 pm (UTC)
wow. what horrible commission etiquette they have D:
i don't see how some people can be so downright horrid to people that PAID THEM MONEY.
and i've never understood people who CONSTANTLY have like 100+ commissions in queue and then continue to take MORE.
:T i try to keep it at 15 or less at a time. preferably 10.
and seriously, people! SHOW UPDATES. this lets your commissioner KNOW what is going on. :| seriously. i update my customers atleast every 48 hours. but i mean, once a week or so is understandable.
i'm definitely adding them to my do not commission list.
marus_puppy
Aug. 9th, 2010 11:23 pm (UTC)
I would consider commissioning him again because I really like his artwork. But I've worked with other artists in the past (I'm not going to name names and be like "why can't you be like them!?") who have been VERY prompt and kept me up-to-date with the sketches thru to the finished product and maybe that's just what I'm used to, but I really like that. It's hard to tell on the internet if someone is telling the truth or not - I tend to err on the side of trusting them though.
bonegrind
Aug. 8th, 2010 08:22 pm (UTC)
How many emails have you sent him asking for updates?
marus_puppy
Aug. 9th, 2010 02:40 pm (UTC)
It's only been a couple, I can't remember how many off the top of my head. I haven't been in any hurry to get them because I don't go to cons where I'd need to use them.
kadaria
Aug. 8th, 2010 10:59 pm (UTC)
This post needs more evidence. Do you have screenshots of your email conversations?
duster
Aug. 9th, 2010 03:00 am (UTC)
This. Screencaps are loved.
marus_puppy
Aug. 9th, 2010 02:36 pm (UTC)
Oh right! I can get those quick up there... (I had company coming over right after posting this so I had to rush. My apologies.)
marus_puppy
Aug. 9th, 2010 11:44 pm (UTC)
I hope what I have put up now helps. I've only left comments on the update journals because I'm really a shy and non-confrontational person. That's all I needed personally and since I'm not demanding anything from him (I'm not even demanding that he hurry up and send them out), I didn't take much of a proactive approach that way.

My mistake, I suppose, mm?
neurotic_lil_me
Aug. 9th, 2010 03:28 am (UTC)
Alright... This is Genetic-Enigma.

First off... Although I am behind and have REPEATEDLY apologized to all the commissioners I still owe, I HAVE updated people through comments, journals, and notes and have TOLD you that if you want to contact me, feel free!
I DO NOT hide from commissioners, NOR do i steal money and vanish.

YES... it has taken a long time, and YES, others were finished first... it's a matter of inspiration ( it comes and goes ) and LIFE does get in the way... I Am NOT an artist who lives only off of commissions... I have two jobs that keep me busy and personal issues that need to be addressed on a month to month basis.

I have ALWAYS told people to contact me if unhappy. I ALWAYS refund if i take too long for someones preferences, OR I offer to do something NEW for my customer if the idea becomes too old while they're waiting and they want something new!

I figured that, with the few times we spoke, you were happy with the badges thus far and understood that I have been busy...

I again, have apologized for taking so long and for any inconvenience... BUT... I have always been upfront with my commissioners... so please do NOT badmouth me and smear my reputation behind my back. If you have an issue with me.. SPEAK TO ME.

... That's all i have to say....
neive
Aug. 9th, 2010 08:04 am (UTC)
To be honest, although maybe semi-harsh, the only one who can smear your reputation is yourself. :/ She didn't make you take that long on the commission, she's just stating what happened.

She also says she doesn't want a refund, hence why she didn't contact you about one. And doesn't that seem a little flawed? "If I take too long, come up with something new"? It basically leaves it open for interpretation as "You can request pictures from me forever, but no word on when it'll get finished or started". Plus if they change their mind and you had already started, it essentially loses you time and money to scrap it. (Which obviously increases their wait time.)

She also didn't say she was unhappy with the badges themselves. Just that you have not even shown her what they look like before saying they just need to be mailed out. Which leaves room for suspicion that them being completed could be a lie. The issue probably lies in what you even said with "I figured that, with the few times we spoke", that you weren't keeping proper contact. Its easy to think someone has vanished if they're not talking, or only give excuses and not actual updates (like progress shots which show proof of work) when contact is made.

If you can't stay on top of commissions, and they aren't your main source of income anyway... then you should stop taking commissions. (Or even if they were your main source, if you can't do it you shouldn't.) It is not the customer's fault or problem when your life gets in the way. You're essentially running a business, treat it as such by acting professional. A customer can choose to be patient or lenient due to you having problems, but they don't -have- to and you shouldn't expect them to.

You honestly should probably refund your customers and clean your slate if you consistently have issues that get in the way. :/ Since as well as not it being their problem if you have real life stress, its not their responsibility to contact you for all updates/keep an eye on journals.

TL;DR: Little if any of this was badmouthing, and most of it was just stating her side of the story. (Which you confirmed as true with most of your response). Sorry for the wall of text/if anything seems harsh, I'm exhausted and rambling but honestly mean well. Hopefully the points come across though. :c
neurotic_lil_me
Aug. 9th, 2010 06:04 pm (UTC)
The reason i offer people something new, is only because i know I take a long time on certain commissions, especially complex ones, and if a customer suddenly has a new, better idea... then that's what i want to draw for them. I've finished double commissions for people before.. if I've already done the line art and they change their mind, i give them the line art and the new commission... that doesn't slow me down.

And i WAS keeping contact with her. I wrote journals all the time to update my customers, and then i personally answered each comment, note, or shout to make sure they were well informed. She didn't contact me often, so i assumed she understood and was simply being patient. I understand I should check in with them myself.. but I am usually busy with work and then drawing, so I assume if they have an issue, they will address it with me.

As for commissions. I don't usually ever take them... I hate doing them for reasons like this. People are impatient or assume my life revolves around the internet and drawing for them. I ONLY take commissions when it's a matter of : If I don't make money, I'll be homeless'

That's what happened.. and trust me.. i am paying for it. I gave away 40+ commissions for only $10 each... i SERIOUSLY under-priced myself because i was desperate to make rent and got swamped. NO I didn't want that many, especially not at once... but it was either that... or be kicked out of my home... So I did what i had to do. Judge me if you must...

And i don't take this as badmouthing... and i really don't care so much that she has complaints!I understand that completely! My issue here is that i wish she would have just had the courtesy to speak to me one on one as a person instead of black listing me... OR would have put the whole story in her initial post... because she makes it seem like I've been neglecting to talk to her or show her any progress... and yet i have as often as she's asked.... That's all.

(( sorry for the word vomit ))
kayla_la
Aug. 9th, 2010 06:16 pm (UTC)
Next time, charge at least twice as much, so you can have half as many customers and do half as much work for the same pay.

I'm speaking in general here (as in, not referring to the OP) , but usually when artists offer sweatshop labour level commission prices, they attract the kind of commissioners you don't actually want to work with. Picky people, impatient people, people who put no real value on art and think you should feel privileged to draw their generic sparklecharacter for next to nothing, and if you're LUCKY, maybe they'll give you an extra two or three dollars and commission you again in the future! You want to avoid the kind of attitude that is usually attracted by offering super cheap commissions. Take it from someone who made that mistake when they were new, as well.

If I were to offer 1 dollar icon commissions, I'd get a lot of interest. But then I'd have to make 10 icons to make 10 dollars. Instead, I choose to charge 10-20 dollars per icon (depending on what it is) and in the process, scare off the kind of commissioners with the kind of attitude I wouldn't WANT to work for, get to work for commissioners that are usually more mature in general, and have a manageable workload all for the same or more that I would have made otherwise. It's just better all around to actually charge what you're worth and not undersell yourself.
neurotic_lil_me
Aug. 9th, 2010 11:59 pm (UTC)
I agree with you... Normally I would never take on so many for so cheap... i was just undermining myself and was scared of loosing my house.

But the ones i take off and on now are properly priced.

Thank you though for the advice. I appreciate it!
marus_puppy
Aug. 9th, 2010 02:46 pm (UTC)
I have not accused you of stealing money and disappearing or hiding from commissioners, simply that your artist etiquette hasn't been what I'm used to when dealing with other artists. I'm extremely happy with what I've seen so far, but I've also seen you take on other commissions while still waiting for mine to be sent out which is what really sort of irritates me.

I'm sorry that this offended you, but like I said, I've recently been seriously burned by people online and IRL and I feel that people should be informed (the two companies I've been burned by IRL have been listed on Angie's List, so it's nothing personal. Really.)
neurotic_lil_me
Aug. 9th, 2010 05:53 pm (UTC)
I understand this... but the fact of the matter still remains that you HAVE seen your badges in an all but complete state.. the coloring is really not that extreme on either of the characters... So you know that they are getting completed...

Doing this journal instead of just coming to me and speaking to me about these issues and concerns was just plain rude. I've never not answered you, and I've always been upfront with you. Yes, the mailing got pushed back because of financial issues that came up. I was just given a loan, so you will have them this week... but all the same.... I wish you would have just spoken to me one on one.... I'm a person, and from all the other commissions you keep talking about, it's obvious that i AM working hard to get as many done at a time as i can. I'm sorry yours got dropped lower on the list... but I do them by which ones inspire me because it makes me work faster.

I don't like the fact that you've had problems with others, and because i simply haven't SENT you work you've seen done, you black list me. I never vanished... I never took your money and ran... I was ALWAYS there to communicate to... I feel this is extremely unfair to peg ME as the bad artist when obviously you're throwing your frustration at other people onto me.

Yes, i have taken a long time. But that is my only crime here, and you could have told me personally...
furry1337otaku
Aug. 9th, 2010 11:30 pm (UTC)
Dude you haven't been blacklisted. People have merely been informed that your commissions take awhile to get done. It's relevant knowledge to commissioners. Yes, you might lose some business over this because some people would not appreciate the wait, but this saves both you and them the hassle when they become unhappy. Those who don't mind a long wait will have no concerns.

Stop overreacting, it will only hurt your business more.
neurotic_lil_me
Aug. 9th, 2010 11:57 pm (UTC)
This journal site is a 'blacklist' of sorts because it's telling other artists/customers to avoid the listed artist... and i don't feel i should be avoided... that's all.

and i'm not overreacting... I'm simply giving my side of this so people reading can know what's going on.... I haven't yelled or screamed... I've been completely calm. I just wanted to clarify what's been going on is all.
frazzled_niya
Aug. 10th, 2010 09:58 am (UTC)
This community isn't just a "blacklist" site, people come here for advise and the now monthly positive commission list. And also being informed about how certain artists work (such as yourself in this entry.)
marus_puppy
Aug. 9th, 2010 11:35 pm (UTC)
The only other artist I've had problems commissioning was a very popular artist who started to lead me on about getting a commission from him and then turned me down because he doesn't need commission money to live on and I respect that. This was a couple years ago. What really was the straw that broke the camel's back was the two companies that I've had dealings with recently. Like in this situation, I just want to inform people about who they are going to deal with.

I made no demands of you in this journal and I was honestly willing to wait for however long it took to get them out to me (since I don't go to conventions, it's more of a thing to hang on my wall than an absolute necessity). I simply felt that people should be informed of your style of doing business, which, like you say is to push people down on the list in favor of more inspirational pieces and to have the commissioner come to you.

If you hadn't told me not to commission you again, I probably would have again in the future. I have commented on almost every, if not every, update journal you've posted and, as I said in the post, I'm really nervous about confronting people in the first place so my gentle proddings whenever you informed us about the status was what I felt would be enough. I'm not trying to sound impatient because I'm not, like I keep saying, I just want people to know about my dealings with you and to keep that in mind. Yes, you will get the job done, but it may not be as fast as they expect. I don't want them to be surprised like I was.
neurotic_lil_me
Aug. 9th, 2010 11:54 pm (UTC)
Alright... I understand all this and i appreciate you explaining... but, you must understand what a shock this came as.

I feel that putting an 'artist beware' post on me is going to make everybody get the wrong idea about me is all... I'm upfront about taking a long time when i post open slots for commissions... anyone willing to still commission me knows this... So... i dunno... this just felt like a slap in the face.

If you are not in a hurry, and would like to commission me again... i don't see the point of making this kind of journal... that's all.

And i'm sorry i got upset and told you not to commission me. I was hurt and upset because this all really came out of left field and felt very sneaky and uncalled for. You didn't even link me to this, another FA member did. So i was very upset.

I really don't think I'll be taking commissions again for a long time... it just causes more drama then needed ( caused by myself as much as my customers )... so I think I'll be taking a break from them once I'm done.

Sorry this turned into such a hassle... but i just wanted you to talk to be one on one instead of all... this.

:( I hope you can understand that.
marus_puppy
Aug. 10th, 2010 12:38 am (UTC)
I do understand and I'm really terribly sorry. I had honestly meant to inform you of this, but I didn't know how the system worked so I actually didn't find out that this got posted until the day after it went up. I had a friend staying with me the past couple days and I didn't have time to even do the screenshots or whatever until about an hour ago. It was poor planning on my part, so I'm sorry.

I'm a non-confrontational person, so I realize I should have prodded more than I did, but I also try to be really cool about how an artist works and you're the first person I've dealt with who's had a pretty loose art policy/system/whatever. I wasn't sure how to handle it, but this seemed like a pretty good way to get to a larger audience than on my own (I'm relatively unknown on the internet, no matter what I try. :P )Artist beware is a huge misnomer because you're not someone to beware of at all.
neurotic_lil_me
Aug. 10th, 2010 02:49 am (UTC)
Well... if that's how you feel.... I wish you would ammend this journal a bit... Even though you've stated in it you have no ill-will towards me and would commission me again, and have not asked for a refund... couldn't you simply have put: Be aware if you commission GE, he does take awhile and his lists are not first come first serve.

but still mention that I get the job done? Cause you know i do...

I dunno... i feel like I'm whining and I don't want to... you and I are at an understanding now i think... and I can't do much about this journal... it'll do whatever it does...

I just hope from now on you can approach me, instead of all this unneeded 'behind the scenes' stuff... I've never gotten mad or bitchy to a commissioner with an issue with me... and i'm happy to do what i can to make anyone working with me happy. I know I took a long time.. but if you were really aching for the badges, it would have been as simple as: It's been over a year... I really hope you can send them this week.' And i would have found a way to do so...

I loose track of time alot... ( not that it's an excuse, just the truth ) so really... it's OK to yap at me! I would reply back un-upset and do what i could to make you happy... I do that for everyone....

I'm not gonna comment here anymore... i think you and I can talk about this between ourselves now if more needs to be said.
kayla_la
Aug. 10th, 2010 02:51 am (UTC)
Please do be aware editing out the information in the original post, or deleting it, is against community rules and will get the OP in trouble, as well as reflect poorly on you.

That said, I do hope you two work things out!
marus_puppy
Aug. 10th, 2010 03:41 am (UTC)
Like Kayla_la said, I cannot edit the original content of the post, but I will make a note to the mods that the issue between us has been resolved.

I'm sorry this felt like it was behind your back or behind the scenes, but I haven't said anything in the post that you haven't confirmed to be true, I'm just telling a wider audience than I would've reached yelling from my own little corner of the internet.
stormslegacy
Aug. 10th, 2010 11:40 pm (UTC)
It's unfortunate that you feel attacked, but all the OP did was state what was going on. She didn't say anything personal or insulting, just explained the situation as it is. If you feel embarrassed by that then you should strongly consider changing your methods. 2 years is a very long wait for a badge. Working on inspiration in your spare time is one thing, but a wait that long is simply unreasonable regardless of your circumstances.
( 25 comments — Leave a comment )

Profile

A_B icon
artists_beware
Commissioner & Artist, Warning & Kudos Community
Artists Beware

Community Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com