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Little edit: I get it already, you should ship originals of traditionals it makes more sense. Lots of people said so and I decided to do it, no need to keep repeating ^^;

Alright, I've gotten all the info I need, thanks! I will be adding the choice to getting things shipped to you or not. Only extra price adding onto the base prices would be shipping/insurance, etc.



I've recently gotten into doing traditional commissions. But as a default, I don't mail out the original (says so in my terms of service). I don't remember where, but I saw somewhere on here (artist beware) were it was considered ok.

It's a bit of a nuisance to send out originals for me. For one, it takes a while for paypal to transfer payments to your bank account. And me being unable to drive yet and my parents being busy, makes it hard to find a time to go. I also love keeping the originals to be honest. If asked, I do mail them out, but usually ask from 10 to 20 dollars for it, to pay for shipping, insurance, etc, plus them getting to keep the original which could be resold easily withought my knowing.

But, I'm not sure if this is actually considered ok or not. Since a lot of commissioners find it's part of the package to get the original ya know?

So anyone have any thoughts on this?

Little Edit: Just to say, I do know I need to go over my terms of service/prices etc, I just haven' had the time yet. I only want to know if it's ok to not ship originals as a default or not ^^ 

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Comments

( 76 comments — Leave a comment )
celestinaketzia
May. 15th, 2010 09:50 pm (UTC)
I honestly don't see a problem with you keeping the original so long as the commissioner is 100% aware that you are. If they really want it, then IMHO, you are more than welcomed to charge how ever much it would take you to insure it etc.

I've commissioned a couple of ink works, but I didn't ask for the originals.
ichigoneko33
May. 15th, 2010 09:51 pm (UTC)
I'm glad I'm not doing something bad then ^^

I make sure to have it in my terms of service, but it is pretty difficult to make sure they know since most people don't read the terms of service at all.
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - May. 15th, 2010 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 10:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - May. 15th, 2010 10:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 10:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - May. 15th, 2010 11:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 11:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
armaina
May. 15th, 2010 09:57 pm (UTC)
The fact that you cannot remember where your own clause is in your own Terms of Service does not reflect well on you. It also tells me that you haven't made the effort to let your customers know about this.

Because of this you need to not only tell customers this directly in your commission pages, but also list prices for shipping so that they know before hand so that they can request shipping and pay for it rather than getting the run around after the fact.
ichigoneko33
May. 15th, 2010 09:59 pm (UTC)
I didn't mean where on my terms of service, I meant somewhere on artist's beware ^^; I'll fix it to be easier to understand.

And yes, both in my terms of service/commission page and prices has info on shipping and says I do not ship the original as a default.
(no subject) - armaina - May. 15th, 2010 10:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
weirdmisty
May. 15th, 2010 10:03 pm (UTC)
As long as your commissioners are aware that they're not getting the original when they purchase your art, there's nothing wrong with not sending it out. You can pretty much put whatever you want in your terms as long as your commissioners are aware of it prior to commissioning you.
ichigoneko33
May. 15th, 2010 10:05 pm (UTC)
Problem is that a lot of people don't read your terms of service, even if you link them to it.

In that case, is it still right of me going by my terms of service?

Also, when someone commissions me they need to fill out a little form, ex: Age:___ gender: ____ etc. And at the end it says "Please put your initials here to state you agree to my terms of service".
(no subject) - weirdmisty - May. 15th, 2010 10:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
snobahr
May. 15th, 2010 10:04 pm (UTC)
Your Terms of Service don't specifically say that the commissioner doesn't get the actual piece, that all they receive is a scan that's emailed. Your Commission Prices says it, but frankly, it's odd. How is a "traditional" commission that's not snail-mailed different from a "digital" commission, since they both are received via email?
ichigoneko33
May. 15th, 2010 10:07 pm (UTC)
Actually, it does say, right after the list of "traditional art updates and changes". It says "Please keep in mind that traditional commission originals are not shipped to you as a default. I may ask from 10-20$ more for the original and another fee is you'd like it laminated. "

I will include, "you only get a scanned version" if you think I should.

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part, do I say somewhere that they are different?
(no subject) - canis_ridens - May. 16th, 2010 12:17 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 16th, 2010 12:19 am (UTC) - Expand
silverfalln
May. 15th, 2010 10:20 pm (UTC)
If you have a premier account with PayPal (the upgraded account that lets you receive credit card payments), you can get a debit card, Makes like easier. I put my checking account as backup funding and I will use my PayPal card instead of my bank card if I'm paying for something from PayPal. It's a thought. :)

As for not sending out the original, as long as the customer knows, and it's make explicitly clear to them (don't rely just on your ToS, tell them directly since, as we've seen from this community, people have problems reading), I don't see a problem with it.
ichigoneko33
May. 15th, 2010 10:22 pm (UTC)
The one problem with telling them straight out is that I may forget, which is fairly normal.
(no subject) - silverfalln - May. 15th, 2010 10:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 10:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - May. 15th, 2010 10:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fiercereaper - May. 15th, 2010 11:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 11:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fiercereaper - May. 15th, 2010 11:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 11:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - May. 15th, 2010 10:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 10:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snobahr - May. 15th, 2010 10:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 10:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - May. 15th, 2010 10:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 10:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snobahr - May. 15th, 2010 10:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - silverfalln - May. 15th, 2010 11:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - May. 15th, 2010 10:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
shukivengeance
May. 15th, 2010 10:24 pm (UTC)
IMO its ok for you to keep the originals as long as the commissioner knows beforehand that you're not going to send it to them.
skiota
May. 15th, 2010 10:28 pm (UTC)
Playing Devil's advocate again...I swear I'm not an asshole XD
If I pay for traditional art and not digital, then I usually (as a commissioner only) expect it to be mailed. Usually when I buy something that is traditional, I am buying it as an ATC, Badge, a laminated product, or something like oil or acrylic paint, which I buy that way BECAUSE of the materials used.

Just to be sure we're on the same terms:
Traditional: Art that is done on paper.
Digital: Art that is done on a tablet and never touches paper.

This is how you define it yes?

With the post office, you can now print postage right from your computer, and just tape it to an envelope. You can even have mailing supplies and stamps mailed to you, and with the post office, usually the mailing supplies are free. All you have to do is order it and when it's ready, stick it in the mailbox. You don't have to ever leave your house. $10 to 20 is a little bit of overkill, if it's just a piece of paper, it shouldn't cost that much, since it goes by weight. You should really only charge the exact shipping cost to you. (Or shipping + cost of an envelope if applicable). For larger packages, you can call to have them pick it up right from your house.

Obviously art is something your proud of, and I understand that having the original's is nice as an artist to look back, but when offering traditional art, maybe it would be best to ask for "$X.XX" amount for shipping and include it in the paypal price. That way the commissioner can choose to have it shipped without it being "hey why didn't you ship it" or, "oh that's kind of expensive.." or similar comments.

Lastly, as someone in the internet selling trade, when we sell a textbook to someone, we don't care if they sell that to another tech or whatever. Once they pay for it it's THEIR book, so it's not really our concern. I kind of apply this train of thought to art(or anything), once I have it and it's in my hand's I own it. And whether I frame it, stick it in storage, toss it, or get rid of it in a garage sale, it's my choice, since it's now my property. (Not that I would toss art that I paid for XD I have a special binder I put stuff in ^^, just saying as an example.)
skiota
May. 15th, 2010 10:29 pm (UTC)
Re: Playing Devil's advocate again...I swear I'm not an asshole XD
Oh PS: But yeah I agree with the other comments, as long as that's what's in your ToS then that's something commissioners have to deal with; personal preference and all that.
(no subject) - fenris_lorsrai - May. 16th, 2010 12:05 am (UTC) - Expand
grygon
May. 15th, 2010 10:32 pm (UTC)
I use paypal a LOT and I guess I am confused- why do you have to wait for pp to transfer funds to your bank before mailing stuff?
ichigoneko33
May. 15th, 2010 10:34 pm (UTC)
Commissions is the only way I make cash, so I rarely have money in my bank account itself, so I keep transferring money.
(no subject) - skiota - May. 15th, 2010 10:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 10:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skiota - May. 15th, 2010 10:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 10:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skiota - May. 15th, 2010 11:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 11:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - skiota - May. 15th, 2010 11:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 15th, 2010 11:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - casteddreams - May. 16th, 2010 01:23 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 16th, 2010 01:24 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - casteddreams - May. 16th, 2010 01:24 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 16th, 2010 01:25 am (UTC) - Expand
slithcloudchser
May. 15th, 2010 11:00 pm (UTC)
one of the things i always do as a buyer is ask questions and one i always ask upfront is about if i am also getting the original. saves time on both ends mine and the sellers as where both on the same page
lainmokoto
May. 16th, 2010 07:49 pm (UTC)
Good idea, in the case of traditional art I feel it is best for the artist to also ask the buyer if they would like the original shipped.
(Deleted comment)
ichigoneko33
May. 16th, 2010 12:02 am (UTC)
Actually, the 10-20$ is just an estimate. It largelly depends on the size of the paper, if it's only paper or more (like those scrapbook badges with objects on it), where I need to send it to, insurance, envelopes (if I need to get a small envelope or bigger). It CAN cost quite a bit, but I don't have too much knowledge on it, so my estimate could be pretty wrong.

(no subject) - lainmokoto - May. 16th, 2010 07:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 16th, 2010 08:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fiercereaper - May. 16th, 2010 01:42 am (UTC) - Expand
spiffystuff
May. 16th, 2010 12:46 am (UTC)
Just be sure you TELL the commissioner the original is not included in the price - lots of people may not read the TOS carefully and may be upset if you do not make sure they understand your policy beforehand.
neive
May. 16th, 2010 01:55 am (UTC)
I'm sure others have mimicked the same, but just make SURE they know very well about this beforehand. Including reminding outside of your TOS, since not everybody reads them (dumb, but true) so it'll prevent people from being upset with you.

Since from a commissioner standpoint, for me anyway, I only get traditional commissions so I CAN have the original. So again, just be honest and very upfront about it. Though it might cut back on those who buy traditional from you, if that's one of your concerns.
pigeons
May. 16th, 2010 11:06 am (UTC)
I only commission traditional pieces because I want to have the art in my hands. I kinda take it as a given that the art will be shipped to me. I also honestly think $20 is wayyyyy too much & kinda ridiculous. I think you should offer insurance if the commissioner wants it, but not as a default.

I got 2 (rather large) badges shipped to me in the most common white envelope. The artist wrote "please do not bend this" on it, and it seems to have worked just fine as the badges are completely fine. It cost $5, and honestly, personally I would be opposed to paying anything more than that for shipping anything (unless it was an assload of stuff being shipped).

But ofcourse as long as you make sure the commissioner is aware of their art not being shipped unless they pay so and so much money, it is all essentially okay. Just most people commission traditional when they want the art in their hands and are probably opposed to paying that much for shipping.
underthebed
May. 16th, 2010 04:03 pm (UTC)
Kinda this. I commission traditional pieces because I want the actual art. If I'm only getting a scan I might as well have bought a digital commission. Also, you say you like keeping the originals. Do you then re-sell them to other people? Like, if I purchased a commission for a sketch, and only got a scan of it, then saw that piece of art up for bid in an art show pr on Furbuy or somesuch? I'd be ripping pissed. Art I paid for, being offered to others? Possibly of my characters? You'd be getting paid twice for art that usually would belong to the original commissioner.
*shrug* Just my opinion, but I've never heard of someone offering original/traditional art and then NOT including said art in their prices. Asking someone to pay extra to get the actual piece of art seems weird, and is something I'd make VERY clear to each person who commissions you. Yes folks should read an artists TOS, but in this case you might want to double check and make SURE they've read them before proceeding.
(no subject) - ichigoneko33 - May. 16th, 2010 04:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
lainmokoto
May. 16th, 2010 07:45 pm (UTC)
Also I've found that foamboard makes a really good shipping material, I'm starting to prefer using it over cardboard. Like others have said, make sure that it says "do not bend on the package" also for art sizes that allow, try to put the art in a sleeve protector, cardboard is acidic and may harm the drawing in the long run if exposed too long.
selunca
May. 16th, 2010 09:11 pm (UTC)
For flat commissions I useually buy the cardboard envelopes that are impossible to bend, put the art in a plastic sleeve and slide it into the cardboard envelopes. These envelopes are about $1-2. Shipping (Without insurance) is useually less then $3.00 on art for me. Though I have contemplated delivery confermation for a while now.
( 76 comments — Leave a comment )

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