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This issue has already been widely discussed within the community. Yet, I still have one question to ask:

How to make commissioners read our ToS?

I'll take, for example, my last finished commission.

Link (warning! contains frontal nudity) -> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3365298
Commissioner -> http://www.furaffinity.net/user/shadowulf/
His journal entry about me being a jerk -> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1186745/

Everything went smoothly from the beginning. The commissioner requested a picture, I approved his request, received money, sent him the sketch. He APPROVED the sketch and told me to go on. And what do I got afterward when the picture was already finished? Yes, he wanted me to edit it.
I always feel like a total shit-bag when buyers pretend to have the upper hand over me, even if it's stated in my ToS that "There are 2 stages where you can ask for your picture to be edited"... "Sketch (digital and traditional)" and "Flat colors (only digital, except anime portraits)".

I would appreciate it if you will share your experience.

***

EDIT:

I had to edit this picture because... Well, I was made a total jerk as it seems =/

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Comments

( 62 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
kayla_la
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:45 pm (UTC)
Link them to it before you accept the commission, when things are still being discussed, and ask they agree to your TOS before you accept it. If they don't, well, they must not want a commission that badly.

If you've linked them to it and they don't read it but still agree, it's their own problem, and you can point out 'I can't do X because of this part in my TOS, see here...' and dust your hands of the situation.
hasegawa_vega
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:48 pm (UTC)
It was originally an auction. After winning it, the buyer must fill in the commission form in order to request a picture and cannot possibly bypass the ToS page.

But thanks for the advice. I will be more strict from now on.
(no subject) - petercat - Feb. 7th, 2010 12:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - crssafox - Feb. 4th, 2010 06:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
mysterymoose
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:46 pm (UTC)
Seems he's known to do that. Apparently did the same thing to skyshadow too just a few days back and instead of making it a private matter between himself and the artist, dude took it directly to comments and made a public shit storm.
hasegawa_vega
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:49 pm (UTC)
Well that sucks.
mandyseley
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:49 pm (UTC)
My TOS states that "the act of commissioning me implies that you agree to these terms."

When I advertise that I'm open for commissions, I link to the TOS with an advisory to read them, and state "the act of commissioning me implies that you agree to these terms."

When a customer first contacts me about a commission, my very first reply to them contains a friendly reminder to read my TOS, and once again, states "the act of commissioning me implies that you agree to these terms."

At least, that's how I do it. If they do something out of line, a gentle reminder is in order - sometimes people genuinely forget. No need to get belligerent unless they're deliberately ignoring the TOS or demanding something that's in breach of them.
hasegawa_vega
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:54 pm (UTC)
I wouldn't be asking this question if it hadn't become a pattern (not reading the ToS I mean).

Thank you.
komickrazi
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:50 pm (UTC)
I've gotten that too on occation. I now insist I get a "Yes, this looks good and I approve the next stage" reponse before I will go further on a commission. If I get a vague "oh how pretty" I will ask them to give me consent of approval.

If they pull a "Oh that doesn't look right" after the fact, I can pull up my old e-mails as proof they gave me full approval to move onto the next stage.

Email communication can be used as a contractual agreement. When in doubt, state in your first email your TOS and insist on a "yes I have read and agreed to your TOS" response before you will take the commission.
cesarin
Feb. 3rd, 2010 11:46 pm (UTC)
I agree here, I always ask over and over until they give the final nod, if not, I wont progress and push for "what modifications you want"
frisket17
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:53 pm (UTC)
A lot of people already covered what I was going to say above...

I'll work with people to ensure they are happy with their image, but I will not completely redraw/heavily edit something that has gone from blueline/sketch phase to finished phase unless additional fees are met. I'm lucky in saying (knock on wood) I've never had this issue come up, but have adopted the policy from other artists.

However, (as it wasn't stated, or I potentially over looked it) what type of edit the commissioner needed, I have no problems with color-corrections and the like on a final stage, as long as the linework does not have to be tweakd to much. The luxury with digital, is things can be saved in various phases and on many layers.

What was he needing changed by chance?
hasegawa_vega
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:57 pm (UTC)
I'm a slow and scrupulous drawer and a full-time student above it all. Once the picture is finished, I need to move on and don't have the time nor energy to redo the finished picture (even when it comes to editing not very major things).

He wanted the penis to be bigger.
(no subject) - frisket17 - Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - selunca - Feb. 3rd, 2010 11:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cesarin - Feb. 3rd, 2010 11:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - frisket17 - Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hasegawa_vega - Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - frisket17 - Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hasegawa_vega - Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kerijiano - Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - foxhack - Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kerijiano - Feb. 4th, 2010 12:21 am (UTC) - Expand
blackswan666
Feb. 3rd, 2010 09:58 pm (UTC)
... wow. This guy was totally an ass to you. :/ I went and read his blog about "Another artist off my list". Like he's blaming you for the fact that he didn't pay attention to his dongle being that size. He was pretty much bawwwwing about how omg, he doesn't have a small dick. I'm also willing to bet he's hung like a mosquito irl, hence needing a fursona with a huge dong to make him feel better about himself. :) I mean really, insecure much?

Anyway...

This is one of the reasons I only do art for friends these days. People claim to read the TOS, then start bitching and whining when you won't change something after they approve the preliminary work, it's completed, and THEN they decide something's wrong with it. :/ Last I checked, that's what sketch approval is for. Seeing as you got the approval for the sketch, and I would think the flat color stage... he should have spoken up then, and not wait until the picture was completed.

He even stated that it was his fault he didn't give you as much detail, but that you SHOULD HAVE KNOWN! to put a large cock on him. o.O And then one of his buddies said your response was rude? Eeesh. :/

FWIW, I'd commission you. I like your coloring style. :)
hasegawa_vega
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:08 pm (UTC)
Okay.. Saw the journal. Wow. I'm impressed. Sometimes I think - is it even worth to work as a furry artist?
eski
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:01 pm (UTC)
This very same thing happened to me only once, for a non-fandom customer. Since it was a larger sum of money and a friend of a friend who commissioned me, I was pretty unhappy when told "nope, doesn't look right" after them having approved the sketch and browsed my other paintings to get a feel for my style.

Sadly, sometimes even when you point people towards your ToS and explain your process, they still don't get it. Sorry you had to experience this, it's pretty irritating.
frisket17
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:09 pm (UTC)
Now that does indeed suck. I've seen some people be in a similar situation as that... As where they aren't clear, beat around the bush, passive aggressively approve something, and then expect you to be a mind reader.

It is in those situations that really need to be pointed at the TOS.

I've seen others see the sketch for their commission, and complain it should be in X-artists style. In those cases, those friends told them to 'Well. You commissioned me. You want it in that style, commission X-artist.".

Another policy I sorta grown used it, if someone does that "It doesn't look right" thing,... They're welcome to explain it, but I also tell them to redline it in the best of their abilities as I don't like playing guessing games... cuts down on sketch and in between 'how about now, does this look ok now' type conversations :] dunno.
(no subject) - eski - Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - qzurr - Feb. 4th, 2010 12:40 am (UTC) - Expand
kalika_tybera
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:06 pm (UTC)
I personally use an online form for it. I have my ToS listed in it and have name/date and "do you accept the following terms and conditions?" for the client to check off. Once they hit submit it sends an electronic copy of it to my email to keep for reference.

You can see what mine looks like here:
http://fs17.formsite.com/KalikaTybera/TermsOfService/
hasegawa_vega
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:36 pm (UTC)
Thank you!
lo8a
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:06 pm (UTC)
I require a signed copy, period. Someone can either mail it to me or scan a high resolution copy of my ToS with their signature. Problem solved.
lilenth
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:13 pm (UTC)

People rarely read Terms of Service, hence why all too frequently when someone joins storm-artists.net I usually have to delete at least a couple of things they've uploaded which are explicitly banned under our ToS.
maddogairpirate
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:16 pm (UTC)
Well, it seems like his issue is with his... uh, size.

I have to be honest, when I saw the pic before even reading the issue he had with it, I had the same conclusion. Is that a hard thing to fix, in the picture?

I don't think that's a huge edit that would take a lot of time to adjust. Should he have said something earlier? Granted.

Just saying. This is definitely not one where I feel one side's all in the right and the other's not.
hasegawa_vega
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:18 pm (UTC)
Just as I said above, "I'm a slow and scrupulous drawer and a full-time student above it all. Once the picture is finished, I need to move on and don't have the time nor energy to redo the finished picture (even when it comes to editing not very major things)."

It seems that I'm going to redo my rules again. I'm tired of these things.
(no subject) - maddogairpirate - Feb. 4th, 2010 02:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Feb. 4th, 2010 02:56 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - maddogairpirate - Feb. 4th, 2010 03:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Feb. 4th, 2010 03:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - maddogairpirate - Feb. 4th, 2010 03:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Feb. 4th, 2010 03:07 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - maddogairpirate - Feb. 4th, 2010 03:18 am (UTC) - Expand
ulariogryphon
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:32 pm (UTC)
Argh! I know how frustrating this is!

Everytime I send a client a sketch for approval, I remind them that once the sketch is approved, I go onto finalizing the line art and can't make alterations.

Even though I do this, some people still ask for changes.

In one case it was a big alteration for an eagle anthro... the client wanted me to change his arms to being scaled like a real bird. :/

Reminds me of a comic that HollyAnn did some time ago: http://hollyann.deviantart.com/art/Communication-Issues-133742042
I still giggle every time I see it.


life_on_m
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:35 pm (UTC)
Well, seems simple to me. You didn't cater to boosting the e-peen of your customer by drawing him with an oversized dick, and that makes you a bad artist. You should hang up your brushes and retire ;)
hasegawa_vega
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:41 pm (UTC)
D':
zippiner
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:36 pm (UTC)
I don't think you should change your TOS, or give him a bigger penis in an edit.
He should have read your rules, and he should not be allowed to avoid them by the lack of reading.
sigilgoat
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:58 pm (UTC)
I agree with this c:
(no subject) - gypsywitch - Feb. 4th, 2010 02:30 am (UTC) - Expand
thaily
Feb. 3rd, 2010 10:42 pm (UTC)
OHNOES MY PURRYMURRYFURRY PEEPEE IS TOO SMALL! HOW AM I GOING TO YIFF THAT 16 FOOT 16-TITTED DICKNIPPLE HERM FOXTAUR NAO?!?!

It's not you in this case, I think your methods are fine. This particular guy is just a numbskull and would have complained about his fictional wang regardless.

You can draw him a pretty picture, but you can't make an inadequate man feel secure.
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