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Syrae Universe

This might be a minor issue, and this is also my first post to this comm, but I just want to warn people of what they may be dealing with should they choose to commission Syrae Universe of Furcadia, FurAffinity and DeviantArt.

My boyfriend commissioned a portrait set from her-- one for him, one for me. We were a little unsure of just how they'd come out, at first-- her art could be pretty hit-and-miss for either of us, plus she was a pretty pushy person to be around to begin with. However, the ports came out great! They were absolutely beautiful, and we were really eager to get them uploaded.

It was only after my boyfriend had uploaded his port, however, that he saw the recolored version of it and noticed that the color of the tail-tip was wrong, and that the nose was, for whatever reason, pink instead of black (our characters are foxes... fox noses aren't usually pink).

My boyfriend feels a bit intimidated when he has to mention to an artist-- especially one as well known and talented as Syrae-- that they made a mistake, especially when it's something as minor as a nose and tail-tip. So, worried that he'd just irritate Syrae, he asked me to fix it for him, which I did. He uploaded that, was really excited, and it was approved.

See, we had assumed that doing something as minor as a recoloring job in two small places on the port would be no problem-- It was, to our understanding from other artists we hang out with and from past commissions, that fixing small errors like that ourselves was acceptable. Not to mention that it didn't say anywhere in her Commission Information journals, either on FurAffinity or DeviantArt anything condemning fixing the matters yourself.

He logged in yesterday, with his new port uploaded, and Syrae noticed.

((These are the Furcadia chatlogs Luke sent me-- the others were discussing that Boom-de-yadda Discovery Channel commercial, which I edited out for the sake of making it easier to read.))

Syrae Universe: .... wait a minute.
Syrae Universe: Why is the nose black when I made it pink??
Syrae Universe: .... and the tail markings black too.
Syrae Universe: God damnit Kuro!
Syrae Universe: What the fuck did you do to the port!!
Kuroda|Nesiote: Huhnothing. A couple colors bothered me.
Syrae Universe: ..........................
Syrae Universe: You altered the port
Syrae Universe: that I personally made
Kuroda|Nesiote: O_o Just the colors?
Syrae Universe: ....
Syrae Universe: I'm going to fuckin kill you.
Kuroda|Nesiote: Would you rather me not use it now?
Syrae Universe: You shoulda FUCKIN ASKED ME
Syrae Universe: I coulda changed it!
Syrae Universe: instead you fuckin alter it without even telling me!
Syrae Universe: That's an insult to me!!
Kuroda|Nesiote: Well sorry! I didn't think it was that huge of a change.
Syrae Universe: Fuck this, I'm getting off for now.
Kuroda|Nesiote: Just recolored my tail and nose.


Luke was then jumped on by several of Syrae's supporters, who then claimed that what he and I did was no different than "scribbling a mustache on the Mona Lisa" or "paying someone to build them a new computer and then already switching parts out after less than a week", which is... A huge exaggeration, in my opinion.

Now, I'll admit that perhaps we should have gone to Syrae about the mistake in the first place, but the whole reason we didn't was because Luke was worried about bothering her-- as I said before, he's intimidated by talented artists, which is why he asked me to change the errors on both of our ports (the nose and tail-tip on his, and just the nose on mine). So really, that's an error on our part.

I'm just stunned by the level of unprofessionalism that came out the minute she noticed those two changes. "I'm going to fuckin kill you"? Seriously? She couldn't just address it in a more... At the very least, calm manner?

This is a warning to commissioners who may be considering Syrae for something like a port-- Not only do you have a 50/50 chance of your portrait art coming out squished, disproportionate or lopsided, as can be seen in a number of the examples shown here, but any attempts to fix any minor mistakes, or to change even something as trivial as the color of a nose, or a single marking, could get a response of "What the fuck did you do" and "I'm going to fuckin kill you".

It just sucks because we were really wanting to finally get to use the ports, and now Luke doesn't want to anymore because of the way he was treated by Syrae over it and now I can't because I feel guilty over the whole thing.

I'm also curious as to whether or not this is even such a big deal-- There were no major details changed around, just the nose (which in my opinion shouldn't have even been pink in the first place) and the tail-tip, the latter of which Luke hadn't noticed until he'd already uploaded the port. I want to get a general consensus on the matter for future reference when commissioning other artists.


::EDIT:: Just uploaded the comparison of the before/after modified ports, for anyone who was wondering about the changes made.


::EDIT 2:: I managed to get the copy/pastes of the conversation Syrae and I had over IMs after I heard about her reaction to Luke-- My initial message to her, and the response that came afterwards. My last response to her was lost, as Syrae deleted my account from her website so I couldn't log in and access the inbox. Admittedly, in my original message I was a bit upset and that showed through alot of the passive-aggressiveness in my note, but here we go:


First of all, I'd simply like to say that I'm the one who modified Luke and I's portrais, and that I apologize for it bothering you as much as it did. I underestimated your pride in your works and hadn't thought that my incredibly tiny color modifications would cause you to react the way you did when you saw Luke's port. Luke didn't want to trouble you with such minor details and asked me to do it. I could go into further details to justify why Luke didn't go straight to you once you noticed those two colors were off, but there's no point after seeing your reaction in the chatlogs.

What you fail to realize is that Luke paid you for those ports and once given to him he has the right do change whatever he wants about them (so long as the commissioner doesn't then claim the new modified works as his/her own, which would have justified your reaction). Not to mention that was -was- edited was minor-- The nose, and the tail-tip were all I touched. He didn't even notice the details were wrong until -after- he'd already wasted a portspace on Luke Nesiote and saw the recolor, and didn't have the SS necessary to remove it.


Your reaction to such a minor edit, which included "I'm going to fuckin kill you", was unwarranted, disgusting and unprofessional, and has guaranteed you will not be receiving any further business from either of us, or any of our colleagues who have received word of this incident. Your reaction was unwarranted as nowhere in any of your "Commission Rules" listings on FurAffinity or DeviantArt could I find anything pertaining to having every minor mistake tended to by the original artist and not by the commissioner to save time. If you're going to freak out this badly every time a customer makes -color- changes to something as simple as a port you should probably make a clear mention of that somewhere to warn potential buyers
.

Not to mention that respect is lost the minute "I'm going to fuckin kill you" comes into play. I mean, seriously? -Seriously?- Do you do that to all of your commissioners? 

I would like to have myself and Luke removed from the dream's DS as we no longer wish to be staff. I respect that you don't want drama of any kind stirred up in your dream, which is why I'm addressing the matter here, in private, on your website.

I apologize for the misunderstanding on both sides in this situation, but... "I'm going to fuckin kill you"? I haven't even gotten any flack for changing just the nose on my port but from seeing your initial freakout, I've got to say I'm not leaning -away- from using it for fear of geting ganged up on over the matter as Luke had.

I'm sorry your pride got in the way of your professionalism.

--Hakoge



Syrae's response to me:

Okay, first of all, wouldn't you feel offended if someone you drew for them altered your art? It's better to ASK FIRST than to fuckin do anything. Asking will do wonders and prevent any sort of drama. Don't auto assume that I will be okay with it. Pride goes with my professionalism. I do take pride in my art. I really do. It was a slap to my face for what you did in general. You didn't that I wouldn't notice? THink again. Just because he paid for it doesn't mean anyone can alter it whenever. It was not going to be a bother to me whatso ever. I'm used to being asked to alter art all the time. It's a common rule that doesn't need to be placed in my rules because it is COMMON COURTESY. Period. So feel offend for all I give a shit. Both you and him are at fault for my accusations for altering something that I worked on without my permission. You're still not understanding the concept of "Altering another artist's piece of work" in general. Learn some common courtesy and respect for another artist and then we can talk. Also "I'm gonna fucking kill you" is what comes out of my mouth all the time. If you're going to let it get in the way of your IC job, them both of you can leave the job. I've yet to see either of you work, let alone attend any of the meetings. I do congratulate that both of you are married. Otherwise, farewell. Oh, next time FUCKING ASK BEFORE DOING ANYTHING.

--Cyn
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Comments

( 166 comments — Leave a comment )
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coyote_feathers
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC)
Yeah, technically you should have come to her first, but when you say she's a difficult person to be around (and she sounds it), I honestly can't blame you. Her reaction to the recolor was over-the-top and over-sensitive. How do you know she wouldn't have reacted exactly the same way if you had asked her to change it?

I've had a customer make minor changes to a badge I did for him. Did I care? No. I didn't give a shit. Money had been received and he'd said he was happy with it. He still continued to credit me for the badge and all was well. This person sounds like a psycho.
ducttapeninja
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:29 pm (UTC)
Exactly! It was always my understanding from past commissions that so long as the person doesn't completely obliterate it, and still gives the credit for the work to the artist, that it's acceptable.

I wouldn't say she's a -psycho-, really, she's always just had a bit of an ego. She can be pretty pushy towards people, but really, this is the worst I've ever seen from her.
(no subject) - coyote_feathers - Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kyotoxo1 - Jan. 9th, 2012 09:18 am (UTC) - Expand
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celestinaketzia
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC)
I'd say you probably should have told her of the issue first. However, from what you have said about her it appears that she does not seem all that much of an inviting person. A commissioner should not have to feel afraid to ask an artist to fix color details on a character.

She also had no right to fly off the handle on you. I consider this to be a good warning. She could have handled that much better. If she was really all that bothered, all she had to do was inform you that she would have been happy to make the changes instead of yourselves.
msmanuscript
Jan. 3rd, 2010 11:25 pm (UTC)
I make that a point. When people commission me, FIRST thing I tell them when I give them the item/image is to come to me if they need anything changed, don't hesitate, I'm happy to do whatever they need changed. Even if they feel intimidated (though I don't know why they'd be afraid of me, I'm not that talented nor pushy) the invite is there for them to come to me with concerns of their product.

And threatening to kill someone because they changed a nose, not cool. I totally agree with you on everything you've said.
ulariogryphon
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:04 pm (UTC)
.... Wow... seriously?

I do think that you should have went to her before altering the colors simply out of respect... but blowing a gasket like that to a customer goes way beyond being unprofessional.

In my personal beliefs... and artist can be the most fantastic artist to ever grace the earth, but if they behave like a total douche to their clients I will never commission them... or even watch them on sites like Furaffinity and Deviantart.

Thanks for the warning!

Edited at 2010-01-03 10:05 pm (UTC)
alexds1
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:05 pm (UTC)
Wow, thats professional.

Not sure if you originally sent her refs with the correct nose/tail colors for your characters, but either way the product that you modified belonged to you, since you paid for it. And it was just a minor edit, its not like you maliciously vandalized her work.
snobahr
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:07 pm (UTC)
Was the recoloring done digitally or on the original item(s) (assuming those were hardcopy)... If it was digital, it's not like the pink nose version doesn't still exist, y'know? Just make certain the online description notes that the noses/tail tips were altered.

But, indeed, "I'm gonna fuckin kill you" is way over the top and eminently drah-mah laden.

ducttapeninja
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:31 pm (UTC)
All of it was done digitally, and the portrait was basically small 100x100 (I think) pixel-art icons, so to speak (I'll get links up once I get around to uploading screencaps of the before/after modded ports). It was all done digitally and, yes, we still have the original pink-nosed ports saved in an email.
(no subject) - armaina - Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ducttapeninja - Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
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allykat
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:08 pm (UTC)
Holy-schamoly. Yes you (he) should have gone to the artist/ask when it comes to minor touch ups. But that error CERTAINLY doesn't make her response any less incredibly inappropriate.

Thanks for the warning. I'm not a player of the game so I doubt it ever would have come up, but I sure wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. It's worth paying more for someone with a professional attitude.
weaselpard
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:10 pm (UTC)
Hmm. Not a very nice or professional attitude on the artists part. It always makes me sad to see a fellow creator react so badly.

You should never be intimidated by an artist. Especially one you just paid to make you something. Popular or not, they are Just regular people with a different talent. Though I can understand apprehension with this particular artist if this is a common reaction from them.

If the artist had problems, especially such HUGE issues with someone doing a touch up of a mistake the artist themselves made, then they should have it placed in their information. Of course it is still polite to ask before hand either way, which you admitted to.

It really is not a big deal. And I'm disappointed in Syrae's attitude and reaction as well as her friends or fans/supporters. I can understand some disappointment on her part, but not the outright anger and threats, as well as the friends coming to you and insulting you. That's terrible business, especially since you had been so happy with the end results and were excited to use them, and now want nothing to do with them after you spent good money on them.

I severely dislike seeing supports flock in to bash people as well. But that's a personal pet peeve of mine.

Try an apology for the changes you made, but also let her know that you were intimidated by her and did not want her to get mad that the marking and the noses were wrong. Perhaps this can be salvaged in someway and you will get an apology from them for their threat and the horrible attitude they gave to you and yours.

In the end though, I would say not to deal with them again, whether things were salvaged or not. The behavior on the artists part and her supporters, in my eyes, is severely unacceptable.
thaily
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:12 pm (UTC)
Mmmyeah, you didn't have the right to edit the images, even if she was a difficult person. I understand that you don't like confrontation, but it would have been better to just ask her to change it.

That said, there is no excuse for the crazy RAEG-tantrum she threw, especially the death threat, which it is. Over a few pixels that were changed from pink to black? I'd say that her volatile and unpredictable personality warrants caution for anyone who might consider doing business with her in the future.

A "I'm really upset that you changed the commission without asking." would have sufficed O_o
thaily
Jan. 4th, 2010 09:17 am (UTC)
"What you fail to realize is that Luke paid you for those ports and once given to him he has the right do change whatever he wants about them"

Unless Luke paid extra for editing/etc. rights, no he doesn't have the right to do whatever he wants with them.
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grandioze
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:12 pm (UTC)
I'm a pretty picky person myself, and even in my case I wouldn't care. As long as the alterations didn't ruin the picture (ex. the picture was made in photoshop and was carefully shaded, but the hair was the wrong color so the commissioner flat recolored it with MSpaint) then I'd be fine with it. With a minor -minor- alteration like that, I'd probably thank him for doing it himself rather than contacting me (saved me time).

This Syrae Universe person seems to be pretty psycho. I agree with you on thinking that she'd throw a hissy fit if you even hinted that the picture wasn't 100% perfect. I think your BF should just use the altered picture and block her if possible (somehow, I could foresee her complaining if he doesn't use it at all because I've seen some psycho artists do that).

Just for reference, could you upload a side-by-side comparison of the two ports?
mialattia
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:13 pm (UTC)
You should have asked her, or at least let her know that you would like to change the colors and not bother her with it. It's unpleasant to log on one day to see a commissioner wouldn't approach you about something so small; being "intimidated" isn't a very good reason to not communicate.

That said, she handled it in an extremely unreasonable manner. It warns me off her simply for her inability to be remotely professional.

In the future, simply ask an artist to fix something, or tell them you'll do it yourself so as not to bother them (chances are they will nearly always want to do it themselves). That way, an artist may be rude towards you regardless of the pains you take, but something as extreme as this can be avoided and you'll rest assured after communicating with them that you've done all you can to make it work.
kriscynical
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:29 pm (UTC)
Both of you are wrong in this if you ask me. Most artists have policies of their work NOT being altered by any means after the final is approved, and the same policy exists in most contracts in the professional market. Unless she formally transferred the rights of that image to you, you had absolutely NO right to alter it. You should have asked her to change it before it was finalized. I wouldn't take a commission from someone who would alter the image after it was finalized unless the alteration (cropping for use in another way, etc) was arranged at the start of the job and the conditions laid out in a contract.

As for her, I absolutely, under NO circumstances WHATSOEVER curse in my communications with my clients no matter how angry they may make me. That was unprofessional to the extreme.
armaina
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:49 pm (UTC)
Honestly, you really should have told the artist first that a few issues were wrong. Not only is this the polite thing to do, but it ensures that the edit is done correctly and looks nice. However if the change was not made after requesting or you were met with rude response that would be an entirely different matter, but it appears that you didn't even attempt to ask the artist to change it so we have no way of knowing if they would have or not.

Though the artist's response was way out of line and incredibly rude, they should really learn how to handle themselves better in a conflict however I don't really see this as a valid warning on them since as I said, we don't know if they would have corrected the error or not. Because from my understanding they completed your portraits well enough and aside from minor errors the rest of your transaction was without incident and turned out correctly. Basically the only problem appears to be their reaction.

Also I have to wonder, if you saw those preview portraits before hand and you are concerned about the image coming out squished, why'd you commission them in the first place?

Edited at 2010-01-03 10:52 pm (UTC)
robocoon
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:52 pm (UTC)
This whole thing seems entirely ridiculous. Yes, you probably should have asked the artist first, but holy goddamn everyone is blowing everything WAY out of proportion here. Especially the artist, who really could have just said "please don't alter any commission without asking". But echoing what was said above, everyone involved in this situation is wrong here. I don't think this post was even really necessary, over such a small dismissible subject.

PS: Never be intimidated by an artist. They eat and crap and breathe and are sitting in front of a computer just like everyone else. If you're paying them, you're paying for them to provide a service to you, not for them to conjure souls and do black magic.

Edited at 2010-01-03 10:55 pm (UTC)
robocoon
Jan. 4th, 2010 06:24 am (UTC)
"colleagues"? You are not a business. You are a furry on furcadia. Please take everything less seriously. (the artist too.)
(no subject) - crim_ferret - Jan. 10th, 2010 08:51 am (UTC) - Expand
synviver
Jan. 3rd, 2010 10:57 pm (UTC)
I personally don't see what the big deal was. Speaking as an artist, if I do a commission for someone, send it, they pay for it in full, then a week after they get it they decide to burn it to ashes and scatter it to the winds... hey, it's not money out of my pocket. It's theirs once it's paid for, IMO, and they can do whatever they want to it.

Really, if this is how she reacted to a tiny alteration (and judging from the size of the ports, it's probably barely noticeable anyways), I can't say I blame you in the slightest for not wanting to ask her to do it.

Also - did you send along reference images for her to work from? If you did, did those references have the details you changed in them? If they did, I personally would be more upset that the artist changed details on my personal characters without asking my permission first. If no references were sent, then it's another matter entirely.

Makes me glad I don't use Furc anymore, it really does. :/
synviver
Jan. 3rd, 2010 11:01 pm (UTC)
Having seen the pictures of the ports posted above, I have to say HUGE overreaction on the part of the artist. The edits are barely noticeable. D:
(no subject) - msmanuscript - Jan. 3rd, 2010 11:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - synviver - Jan. 3rd, 2010 11:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ducttapeninja - Jan. 4th, 2010 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand
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supertablebunny
Jan. 3rd, 2010 11:01 pm (UTC)
tl;dr (the comments)

Wow, she sure flipped her basket a little bit. I can understand feeling a little surprised and maybe slightly insulted when someone changes your commission work but given the circumstances I'd say she definitely overreacted (but that's just me).

Like other people have seemed to mention, you probably should have mentioned the issue first to her.

Also there's no reason to feel intimidated by an artist working as a professional; they're upheld to a sort of level of etiquette; it's not you or your boyfriend's fault for her behavior - as long as you're polite and respectful, there (ideally) should be nothing to worry about.

I think it might be a good warning for the artist's behavior, but only if she's been known to react like this in the past to other people. Also. Does she know you and your boyfriend personally? That could also be a reason for how she responded to it, but, yeah. I'd still say it was out of line.
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