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Yin of Hope and Yang of Disappointment

My story: this gal (modastrid) and I met through a community and hit it off, she was weird and cool and we both disliked the same people for the same reason (on a community) so we often PMed about that.

Then we had a disagreement, mostly when I saw her boasting about something she made in an ebay-seller warning post. And that really turns me off. A lot. It shaded my opinion of her in a totally different light. Ego and boasting in artists who sell their work just squicks me, big time.

But I decided to get past that, cause she still does some cool stuff. Then I saw her newest creations- animal pelts put into round necklace pendants (cabochons?) and I ordered one. It came with glue and dry skin sticking out of the top. I thought she had better crafstmanship than that. As a friend said to me: "visible glue is amatureish".

I ordered a 2nd one (mind you these were ordered and shipped at the same time, I had not seen the poor craftsmanship of the 1st yet) custom-made. I wanted a The Lion King inspired piece and I asked her to do a yin yang symbol of dark lion pelt and light warthog pelt. I was assured twice that they lay flush together:

Yeah they lay flat when they're glued down.

I asked for clarification: actually i meant do they lay flat and against each other perfectly with no hole or lines of sunlight between them?

Flat and against each other. Nothing BETWEEN them. It's a yin yang symbol, you know what I meant just by reading that, yes? Side by side, not overlapping in other words. I was worried about a miscommunication but she replied with this which seemed she understood perfectly: Yes they lay perfectly flush with each other. I created a pattern before cutting them to insure they'd match up with no gaps.

A pattern so that no gaps would show describes exactly what i want- no overlapping. If there was overlapping then why would a pattern have been created?

So I paid and waited for her to finish and mail it. No further communication came, just the package.

What I opened was NOT what was described. The lion fur is very clearly glued on top of the warthog pelt. I left negative feedback for this one (positive for the other... though I regret that).

Today I got this email from her... I will let her emails speak for themselves, though I could nitpick and show you the faults, I am sure you can on your own:

I'm a little upset as you left me negative feedback onover nothing.
I'd like to "kiss and makeup" on etsy. I had 100% positive feedback until this.
Why didn't you contact me before doing that? I make all my living as an artist and I try to be very professional.
I hope you didn't leave bad feedback just to jab at me.
You asked me if they laid flat against each other with "no holes or lines of sunlight between them" they do!
They had to overlap a tad in order for them to be secured properly. What I sent you was a lovely piece.
It's a piece of art not some perfectly manufactured item. You should understand that as an artist.
I didn't even charge extra for it being a custom order.

I hope you'll do the kiss and makeup on etsy.



I looked at her proposal on etsy and it was blank, she just wanted me to accept it so her feedback would be positive. She OFFERED nothing though.

Here is my reply to her:
The negative feedback was over not receiving what I ordered. Mind you, I almost left negative feedback over the other necklace as well- I am not sure I can fix that skin and glue hanging out the top, and I shouldn't even have to.

My feedback was not a jab, it was honest. But I did wonder, after opening the package if your craftsmanship was a jab at me, already having my money and all you sent two necklaces that were in what looked to be disrepair (the leopard) and not what I ordered (the yin
yang). I've seen your work, I know you can do better.

They overlap. That was not what you said you would send. And the "security" excuse is a poor one as they're in a finely secure cabochon with a backing and sides. The glue would have been a fine security measure if used right and not flowing over any edges as it does with the leopard.

As an artist I understand FINE craftsmanship and pleasing my clients with my best possible work and telling them and showing them EXACTLY what it is they'll get. I would be embarrassed to wear these necklaces unless I can find a way to fix them.

I will not accept your kiss and make up proposal, as it is blank and you are offering me nothing except an argument that YOU think this work deserves it. I am the client and you did not please me, nor have you convinced me that you work deserves it, so unless I am offered a reasonable proposal you will not get that positive feedback.



And her reply:
How dare you! Both pieces are well made and attractive. They are nothing less than described.
You are anal and spiteful. I knew from the beginning it was a risk to sell to you but I didn't listen to my better judgement.

How is a slight overlap and embarrassment?! the ying yang came out lovely. It was necessary to overlap slight to get the shape perfect and to keep any glue from seeping between the hides. I NEVER claimed they weren't overlapped, I said they were flush against each other, meaning there is no gap between them.
the leopard piece was not messy or poorly made. If glue was showing then it was minimal and unavoidable.
I will keep the bad feedback. Anyone who reads it will know it was left by someone with ridiculous expectations.

You are incredibly insulting and rude. I sold to you even after you attacked me as an artist but I will never sell or buy from you again.


Edit To Add:
Here is a photo of the two necklaces that I bought.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/4205671410/sizes/o/

THE ONLY THING EDITED ABOUT THIS POST WAS FROM "Edit To Add:" AND DOWN TO THIS BOLD STATEMENT No other text was touched. This goes by community rules, I checked, and thus was able to edit this to add the pics.

ETA2: Lilenth made an excellent point so I thought I'd add it to main body:
Modastrid said: Yes they lay perfectly flush with each other. I created a pattern before cutting them to insure they'd match up with no gaps.

She used the word flush which means:

1. even or level, as with a surface; forming the same plane: The bottom of the window is flush with the floor.
2. having direct contact; being right next to; immediately adjacent; contiguous: The table was flush against the wall.


They are not flush as she said. So, where's this miscommunication exactly? There is no other definition for flush, definetly not one that is similar to "overlapping".

ETA3: please, for comparison, similar works:
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=35182280
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=35182185
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=35169870
http://www.etsy.com/shop/psychedelicpanther?section_id=5835531&page=2
http://modastrid.deviantart.com/art/Fur-cabochon-pendant-necklaces-144593141
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v381/twiggysphotos/?action=view¤t=necklaces3.jpg


EDIT March 2010:
Her ego strikes again.
http://community.livejournal.com/steamfashion/2419013.html
She deleted a comment there cause she did not agree with it and the commenter contacted the mods who then yelled at modastrid for deleting the comment. They also reposted the comment. Modastrid and the commenter seemed to have some debate going on. Though ofcourse modastrid just kept insisting her work was perfect and she wasn't forcing people to buy it. Then modastrid whined to the mods she was "being harrassed" and the comments got deleted again and the part of the comment-repost where the mods yelled at modastrid was edited out.


AND you ever wonder how she gets all those vintage furs? Here's one she bought on eBay for $10 and is trying to sell to YOU for $50:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2752/4405886232_26f7afc510_o.jpg

EDIT April 2010:

Another beautiful screen cap:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/4482843049/sizes/o/
NEW person joins FHB and posts some pics of her artwork and Modastrid accuses her of spamming the community... if you follow any of the comms that Modastrid is a part of you know that 90% of her posts are just ads for her new artwork for sale. lmao.

Community Tags:

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 163 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
plushabilities
Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:26 am (UTC)
Wow D:

Can we see the necklaces?
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:31 am (UTC)
of course, i will take photos now. mind you, i never saw pics of the finished yin yang one, just a wip shot of it.
(no subject) - mmyesidosay - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:40 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Dec. 23rd, 2009 05:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - modastrid - Dec. 22nd, 2009 04:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:33 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 5p1ic3 - Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:42 am (UTC) - Expand
kayla_la
Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:27 am (UTC)
I can see problems on both sides here. Honestly, you should have communicated with her better and given her at least a chance to fix the items, but you were hostile from the getgo and gave her the idea that what she had sent before was fine. You didn't give her a chance to fix anything.

This doesn't excuse sub-par work on her part, but I do personally believe you could have handled your end better, as well. This also sounds like something that could easily be worked through if you would talk to her instead of being aggressive the way you were.

Of course, it might just be me.
oceandezignz
Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:32 am (UTC)
I agree with this commentary.
(no subject) - denkimouse - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:42 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - modastrid - Dec. 22nd, 2009 04:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - chocolate_bunny - Mar. 20th, 2010 08:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Mar. 27th, 2010 06:03 am (UTC) - Expand
lobotomysoup
Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:40 am (UTC)
"I sold to you even after you attacked me as an artist "

There where issues in the past then?
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:42 am (UTC)
yes, reread the 2nd adn 3rd paragraphs
(no subject) - lobotomysoup - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - modastrid - Dec. 22nd, 2009 04:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stormslegacy - Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
rizzy_rau
Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:50 am (UTC)
:( Thats a shame, from what i've seen things have looked rather decent in posts she makes on the other community, and i was thinking getting one with hyena hair and such. Still emails over the Hyena cabochon i reserved seemd a bit pushy even though it was a week before i knew for sure and passed it up. Maybe fore the better.

Still this sucks :(
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:35 am (UTC)
yikes... glad i know i am not alone. tho i am sad my own experience went so far as this.

and yes, sucks. :( i miss it when we got along and could be comrads over a certain thing or two.
(no subject) - modastrid - Dec. 22nd, 2009 03:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rizzy_rau - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
sunhawk
Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:03 am (UTC)
It looks like a lot of miscommunication, little things that you might not think would be enough to confuse the issue - such as the difference between the words "flush" and "flat" - that while I understand your dissappointment, I can see why the incident occurred. For example:

I said they were flush against each other, meaning there is no gap between them.

You meant flush against each other in a horizontal fashion, she could have inferred you meant no gap vertically, between the base and the top layered piece.

If there was overlapping then why would a pattern have been created?

An assumption on your part, the pattern could have been to use one of the hides as the base with the other colour laid on top.

I left negative feedback for this one (positive for the other... though I regret that).

That was definitely a mistake to leave positive feedback, because it would have given her the impression that the methods she used to create your last necklace were satisfactory and she would have no reason not to use them again.
lobotomysoup
Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:06 am (UTC)
I agree with you
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:22 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sunhawk - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sunhawk - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 09:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sunhawk - Dec. 22nd, 2009 10:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
beetlecat
Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:19 am (UTC)
Need photos.. without them it's hard to say that the items are made carelessly or if it's just artistic interpretation.

Real hide can be tricky stuff to work with. And if the extra glue and such doesn't affect how it looks, then I can understand leaving it. But if it's obvious and ugly then yeah, it should have been fixed a bit nicer. Ditto on the overlap - if the alternative is a ragged edge with glue seeping out, then it's not a bad thing.

So yeah. I'll reserve judgment until I can see the items in question.

Edited at 2009-12-22 06:22 am (UTC)
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:39 am (UTC)
Understandable. Sorry it took so long but I was trying to take very careful photos (it's nightitme here, no natural light which makes that difficult):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/4205671410/sizes/o/
Given the light I had and the camera problems, the pics I think came out just right. Out in natural sunlight would have been better, always is, but these pics show what is wrong. I don't even think I needed to put text on them, but just in case I did.

As for the edges... I don't know, they look pretty flat to me, just those two gaps i pointed out, and with the right tools and skill could have been put side-by-side without overlap. And if she HAD to use overlap, she should have told me. But she didn't. She led me to believe they'd be side by side when they weren't.
(no subject) - rmoorcat - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - beetlecat - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 09:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
lo8a
Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:38 am (UTC)
"My story: this gal ([info]modastrid) and I met through a community and hit it off, she was weird and cool and we both disliked the same people for the same reason (on a community) so we often PMed about that."

A+++ WILL LMAO AGAIN.
lo8a
Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:43 am (UTC)
Gonna add that there's no way to cut a hair-on hide so that the bare edge doesn't happen, so the only way to avoid that look is to conceal it, such as with piping of some sort.
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:53 am (UTC)
i'm aware of the edge-edge being unhidable, which is why i wanted the edges side by side, not one on top of the other. but the lion has some bare pelt showing on the top (near the edge, true, but still on the top of the pelt where fur should be).
(no subject) - lo8a - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:18 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - modastrid - Dec. 22nd, 2009 04:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rmoorcat - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lo8a - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 22nd, 2009 05:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
stormslegacy
Dec. 22nd, 2009 06:54 am (UTC)
Photos please? Both of the works and others of that nature by her so we can compare. A link to the sold piece would be best, or to her gallery at least.

There's a lot of claims made that really need to be substantiated with evidence. Also, how much was paid? I know when I take a custom order on my things I often charge 25-50% more depending on how complicated it's likely to be.

I admit I'm on the fence--this looks to be miscommunication and yet you gave her negative feedback and came here rather than tactfully explaining what was wrong with it. That's definitely a no-no, you should ALWAYS contact the artist first and tell them why you are unhappy. How was she supposed to interpret the negative if you didn't talk to her? Lastly, what did you expect her to offer? You should tell her what you want, such as her taking them back and redoing them or getting a refund after sending them back--something of that nature.

It's clear to me that "flat" and "flush" are not the same thing. Also, why wouldn't a pattern be necessary if they weren't flush? I don't understand that conclusion.

I also know that someone unfamiliar with a medium might not always recognize inevitable problems with it. For example, with polymer-clay, where small bits of dust in white clay is nearly unavoidable The way I avoid it is to work in off-white, as it looks just as good but picks up less dust. In this case, I know when I've worked with hide before it can be very very difficult to get perfect. Some might really be inevitable, it's hard to say without seeing the piece in question and also a link to other works.
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:08 am (UTC)
When I bought the leopard these were the types of photos she offered:
http://modastrid.deviantart.com/art/Fur-cabochon-pendant-necklaces-144593141
I bought one in a similar bunch for leopard but it's no longer up on her etsy... I had purchased a zebra, then asked if I could buy a leopard instead/in place of the zebra. My sale of the zebra stayed up for feedback and the leopard i bought was deleted... I am not even sure if this leopard necklace I got is the same one from the etsy store that I asked for as I don't have the pic to compare but had I seen the skin and glue, i would not have bought it in this shape.

Then this was the WIP of my yin yang:
http://ny-image1.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.108053445.jpg
large and clear, butnot yet finished... I now see it would have been wise to have waited for a finished shot.
(no subject) - stormslegacy - Dec. 22nd, 2009 03:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fenris_lorsrai - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:02 am (UTC) - Expand
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:11 am (UTC)
Shoot... you are right about that. That was my mistake, at first she did have some leopard for sale, but I went back and reread our discussion of when I bought a large cat and looks like I bought jaguar, not leopard, according to the discussion.
(no subject) - fenris_lorsrai - Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:20 am (UTC) - Expand
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katze_neko_mew
Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:13 am (UTC)
That is SO not a Yin/Yang.

It resembles one, but they should be EVEN. They're hard, ya, but she fucked UP on the shape.

AND EW on the extra skin showing one. That is NOT acceptable.
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:42 am (UTC)
That is true- but she did improve it from their square shape:
http://ny-image1.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.108053445.jpg
at least now they're round? lol

it is a hard shape, everytime i do one i draw and redraw and redraw it to get it perfect.
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lilenth
Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:56 am (UTC)

Wow, I agree with you, I'd have given her negative feedback as well though I would have spoken up about the first one and not brought a second one.

They're both poorly made, the skin and glue at the top of the first one is inexcusible. The second is most definitely not flush since flush means "Having surfaces in the same plane; even", " Arranged with adjacent sides, surfaces, or edges close together", "level", and " Aligned evenly with a margin, as along the left or right edge of a typeset page; not indented". A flush surface should be smooth not overlapping, it's the same whether you're inlaying wood or fur. That and the shapes aren't even either.

The works in: http://modastrid.deviantart.com/art/Fur-cabochon-pendant-necklaces-144593141 look a lot more professionally done, quite frankly what you got looks half-assed in comparison. I'm not surprised you're disappointed, I would be as well. That sort of artistic negligence is not worth $25.

As for her response to your email? Accusing you of being spiteful and other things is just unprofessional, regardless of your prior history both pendants are poorly made. Indeed looking at them I can't help but wonder if she half-assed them to get back at you for the argument. (Incidentally you might want to link the argument to round out the history). Also disagreement's are something an artist should expect to negotiate, not just demand the removal of bad feedback.

Personally I've had bad feedback once in the past myself, over a minor issue with shipping which resulted in a bent edge to a sketch when I experimented with a new shipping arrangement, my response was to admit the fault and to fix it so there hasn't been a repeat.
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:04 am (UTC)
Sadly, I bought both at the same time so had no way of knowing. I should have waited and seen the first, before ordering a custom 2nd.

And excellent point!

She said: Yes they lay perfectly flush with each other. I created a pattern before cutting them to insure they'd match up with no gaps.

She used the word flush which means:

1. even or level, as with a surface; forming the same plane: The bottom of the window is flush with the floor.
2. having direct contact; being right next to; immediately adjacent; contiguous: The table was flush against the wall.


AWESOME point there. Wish I had noticed that sooner and quoted the dictionary.

I too have had minor disagreements, and I fixed them. (Mostly over anatomy). I never told the client off.
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:13 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - cissa - Dec. 22nd, 2009 11:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 23rd, 2009 12:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cissa - Dec. 23rd, 2009 12:21 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 23rd, 2009 12:30 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:09 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:26 am (UTC) - Expand
_patches_
Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:19 am (UTC)
LJ cut would be nice, please. Just suggesting. =)
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:25 am (UTC)
Jeez, I am so sorry! I just looked at it via my flist view and WOW it was long. I am so sorry, consider it cut. :(
(no subject) - _patches_ - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:52 am (UTC) - Expand
thaily
Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:39 am (UTC)
Two things.

1. A relationship with someone based on mutual dislike is doomed from the start.
2. Doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, I'd say ordering again from the same "artist" when her shoddy craftsmanship was obvious after you received your first order is pretty crazy.

The fact that she thinks an artist would make allowances for shoddy, sloppy work because it's art is laughable. But you should have brought this up after you received the first pendant.

Also, your dislike of her trolling elsewhere on the internet or her "ego and boasting" is entirely moot to the matter.
sepp
Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:45 am (UTC)
OP mentioned in their post that they bought both pendants at the same time, so they were made and then shipped at the same time. OP didn't have the chance to inspect the first one before buying the second. just saying :)
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:56 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grygon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fyphfoko - Dec. 22nd, 2009 11:17 am (UTC) - Expand
fyphfoko
Dec. 22nd, 2009 10:55 am (UTC)
"There is no other definition for flush" - a good hand ^^

don't know if its been asked or mentioned before, but roughly how much did you pay for these? i wouldn;t be embarised to wear them myself, but i can understand if they were expensive
grygon
Dec. 22nd, 2009 08:58 pm (UTC)
They were $25 each.
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