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Hi all,
This is my experience with Exodite Dragon aka Astralabortion I just want to show everyone how difficult it can be with some artists. This really sucks cuz I REALLY dig his work.

Short version: We talked online about two commission. He gave me the price of $200, I paid him on 3/31/09, on 7/13/09 he said he wouldn't do it, and finally get my money back 9 months after original payment on 12/19/09 (today)



=================================================
3/31/09

I talked to him online about wanting a couple large paintings (since he needed the money) he agreed, so I paid him through paypal:

-----------------------------------
Payment details
-----------------------------------

Amount: $200.00 USD
Transaction Date: Mar. 31, 2009
Transaction ID: 5FY10016HP417890V

Subject: Two dragon art pieces

Message:
18x24 is a standard canvas size...
1: Two dragons fighting, 2: Dragon and Diadexxus

We can talk about details.
Due June 1st.

After I paid him we talked about various ideas for the paintings. He wanted one sexual one, I was cool with that, the two fighting ones sounded awesome! I figured he would be well on his way on being done, so I left him alone. I also didn't see him online much at all for a few months.

=================================================
7/11/09
I emailed him because the commission was due on 6/1/09:

On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:21 AM, <dia@xxxxx> wrote:

Hey Exodite,
I haven't heard from you since I ordered my commissions from you in April.

Could you please get back to me on the ETA on these two orders as they
were due on June 1.

Thanks

=================================================
7/13/09
I get an email from him. I think his Ego rethought the Commission prices:

Diadexxus,

Not to be an asshole about this, but you paid me $100 apiece for two
paintings far in excess of my standard commission size. Initially, during
our conversation concerning what you wanted, the exact dimensions were not
entirely clear to me. Moreover, searching for you on Yahoo! to discuss
prelims and the problem I had with the pay for the size proved futile - That
you come to me almost 45 days after the due date to finally seek audience I
take a bit of issue with.

Point being, $100 for *paintings *two feet by a foot-and-a-half apiece is
entirely too paltry a sum. If I were aware of the exact mess I was getting
myself into, you can be damn sure I'd have charged no less than $350 per.

This is not to say I don't want to do the commissions for you - but at $100
each you're going to get two marker images at 9x11 on bristol board. I will
forward you the prelims if you want to continue on, because I am fascinated
by the idea, but if you wish to continue ahead with the water colors you'll
either have to pay the extra per or consolidate the $200 towards a single
piece after we've had a chance to discuss the direction you want the
composition to develop.

~Xo


The "dimensions being not entirely clear" is TOTAL BULLSHIT. They were in the frickin' PAYMENT TEXT AS WELL!!

WTF, he knew exactly what he was getting into, and my JAW dropped when I read "Point being, $100 for *paintings *two feet by a foot-and-a-half apiece is entirely too paltry a sum. If I were aware of the exact mess I was getting myself into, you can be damn sure I'd have charged no less than $350 per." HOLY SHIT! EGO anyone??

This was AMAZING to me that someone would say this after taking my money MONTHS before! WHY DID HE AGREE TO THE PRICE AND TAKE MY MONEY?

Then he goes to tell me what I WILL get. FUCK THAT! I asked for my money back


=================================================
7/18/09
Please reply that you got my message.

Forget about the commission and send the full $200 in full. (If its
paypal, there are fees that go with that)

-J

=================================================
7/26/09
I email him AGAIN.... (and left messages on FA)

On 7/26/09, dia@critter.net <dia@xxxxx> wrote:
> Please contact me. This is the fifth email here and FA.
>
>
> I just want the money back and to forget the commissions if this is going
> to be all Artist Drama.
>
> Please, just send me the $200 in Paypal, as a GIFT, so you don't have to
> pay the fees, and be done with it.
>
> -J

=================================================
7/28/09
On Tue, July 28, 2009 12:22 pm, Exodite Dragon wrote:
> Diadexxus -
>
>
> I am in the midst of a move. Once I get myself set up, I'll forward
> t/he refund. I am sorry to learn you didn't want to contiune forward with a
> scaleback of the original commission, but that's your call.
>
> Exodite

Sorry, Paypal takes a whole 2 minutes to do. This was a bullshit email to put me off I think.
=================================================

8/22/09
I sent another reminder.

On 8/22/09, dia@critter.net <dia@xxxxx> wrote:
Exodite,
Its been weeks since you last emailed me. You must be by now, moving.

I really want to know when you plan on sending me my $200 in total.
Please log onto PayPal and get me and send it to me.

-J

=================================================
9/15/09
I sent yet another email:

On 9/15/09, dia@critter.net <dia@xxxxx> wrote:
OK, its been almost 2 months since your last email.
Please return my $200 to me immediately.

This is really starting to get me mad.

-J

=================================================
12/7/09

Then, I didn't hear things for FIVE MONTHS! I kept leaving him messages on FA since it seems that he has ignored my emails. Then after I saw a post on here that he finally contacted another commissionee I send another email:

On Mon, December 7, 2009 10:55 pm, <dia@xxxxx> wrote:
> OK, I see you are FINALLY getting back to people online:
> http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/281802.html
>
>
> Now can you please get back to me? Its been 5 MONTHS. I tried finding
> you at MFF without much luck. I think its fair that you get a hold of me
> immediately regarding sending my money back on paypal. dia@XXXX is
> my paypal, please send my full $200.
>
> -J
=================================================
12/11/09
I found him on AIM, and he ACTUALLY PAID BACK HALF back!! Promising the next on 12/18/09
-----------------------------------
Payment details
-----------------------------------
Amount: $100.00 USD
Transaction Date: Dec 11, 2009
Transaction ID: 6W04304706310560U
Subject: Refund Owed 12-11-09
Message: Date of next refund payment will be 12-18-09.

~C

=================================================
12/19/09
I found him on AIM again, asking if he would please send the second payment as was promised. Holy shit, the Second Refund ACTUALLY came!
-----------------------------------
Payment details
-----------------------------------
Amount: $100.00 USD
Transaction Date: Dec 19, 2009
Transaction ID: 90555843YV531670C
Subject: Refund
Message: Second refund owed~

You can view the details for this transaction by logging in to your PayPal account
and clicking the "History" tab.


=================================================
THIS SHIT IS DONE AND OVER WITH. I will never be commissioning from him ever again, which is a complete shame as I love his work. But I don't want to deal with this type of bullshit Ego and lack of communication.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 193 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
hellebore
Dec. 20th, 2009 01:29 am (UTC)
Whatever he wishes to charge, "If I were aware of the exact mess I was getting
myself into, you can be damn sure I'd have charged no less than $350 per." is compltety unacceptable way to speak to any customer, past present or future.
(Deleted comment)
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blackswan666
Dec. 20th, 2009 01:30 am (UTC)
While I can understand your frustration, I really don't think it's necessary to slam him here when he paid you back in full.

Yes, I also understand it took longer than it probably should, but you did get your money back. Instead of bitching, just don't commission him again. Easy solution.
kayla_la
Dec. 20th, 2009 01:32 am (UTC)
I think it's a perfectly valid post. He did get his money back, but the experience was terribly unprofessional and it tells me not to commission this person (along with all the other entries on them). Getting his money back doesn't make what happened alright, and I appreciate the warning, myself.
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lizbeast
Dec. 20th, 2009 01:35 am (UTC)
While it's totally his fault for not being upfront about issues with the canvas size, and for not refunding or getting back to you sooner...

Yeah, $100 is a paltry sum for a fully rendered 18x24 painting, especially as detailed as Exodite's work is. I don't think that's ego at play here, I would charge more than that as well. Canvases (or watercolor paper, since he mentioned those) are expensive enough before factoring in the labor.
msmanuscript
Dec. 20th, 2009 01:44 am (UTC)
I think the ego is more of how he agreed to it at first, then after not doing anything for months or even contacting them, all of a sudden it's "your work is below my standard unless you pay me more." Rather than finding out it's a mess and contacting them right away, they waited until well after the due date for the buyer to contact him to tell the buyer that they need to pay more for late work.
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(no subject) - robocoon - Dec. 22nd, 2009 03:37 am (UTC) - Expand
msmanuscript
Dec. 20th, 2009 01:39 am (UTC)
Wow.

That really sucks. 18X24 is NOTHING in size. Considering as most gallery artists today have something three or four times that size. As for being over $300 a piece, that's ridiculous. Canvas is $20 each at Micheal's, water color sets are $5-$10 depending on quality. He shouldn't charge for a full set as you're not using the whole set. $100 each is fair.

Heavens above. I've been looking into doing large-type commissions. If you're still interested, contact me dear. It sure won't be $100 each, and there's contact every step of the way. And I have to admit, they do sound like great art ideas.

Thank you for the heads-up, I was thinking of him myself. Those badges are so beautiful. He won't get a cent out of me now.

Edit: fixed the size.

Edited at 2009-12-20 01:40 am (UTC)
spiffystuff
Dec. 20th, 2009 02:02 am (UTC)
I really disagree with you here. $100 is a pretty small for a painting - that's about where my pricing would /start/ and I consider my commissions pretty cheap because I'm mostly doing this for fun and to make it a self-sustaining hobby. It's not about the cost of supplies, either, although those are a lot more than basic pencil and paper. A painting takes a /lot of time and concentration/ to do well.

That's not to say the artist isn't in the wrong here - they are, because if they really were surprised by that part of the commission they should have gotten back to the OP immediately, and been much more polite about telling them there had been a misunderstanding.
(no subject) - xianjaguar - Dec. 20th, 2009 03:09 am (UTC) - Expand
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animehoneybee
Dec. 20th, 2009 02:00 am (UTC)
Here's what gets me,

"...you paid me $100 apiece for two
paintings far in excess of my standard commission size. Initially, during
our conversation concerning what you wanted, the exact dimensions were not
entirely clear to me."

It's almost shocking that a commissions artist who isn't new to the game (I think this person has been mentioned before, so I'm assuming they're no novice), would a) be as careless as to not hammer down the details, and b) respond so flatly and unapologetically to their customer.

I mean, forget that the dimensions were apparently discussed upon payment, but HOW does someone NOT take the initiative themselves and INFORM their customer that THEY made a mistake and underestimated the amount of work?

That's really a terrible way to go about the situation. All in all, it does smack of ego and disregard. I'm glad you got your money back, but it's a shame that the transaction didn't work out for you.
astralabortion
Dec. 20th, 2009 05:10 am (UTC)
This was not a new commissioner. She'd commissioned me previously at a con, and the tone had been conversational and friendly in nature then - so as a repeat I didn't see a problem at the time in taking a stance other than how it had been previously. If I'd known I was going to get the shaft and a disappearing act, obviously I would've exercised more caution in establishing details. She was aware she was making a down payment, not the full amount, and that the deadline she asked was not set in stone. I had no reason to believe discussing things with ambiguity would lead down this road when they had not before.
(no subject) - animehoneybee - Dec. 20th, 2009 05:59 am (UTC) - Expand
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astralabortion
Dec. 20th, 2009 02:09 am (UTC)
Diadexxus -

I made it clear the first time we spoke that what you were paying me was a down payment ONLY. For you to expect me to craft paintings at THAT size in a medium I'm unfamiliar with for such a low price borders on lunacy.

You disappeared on ME for four months. You were nowhere to be had, and I never got any inquiries about progress on your pieces. You reappeared PAST a due date I initially told you I couldn't promise delivering on due to the scale of what you'd ask. I offered you what I could for the price you paid since you were not at all receptive to paying a fair amount for what you asked - your attitude towards my pricing on these paintings would be akin to me trying to barter a bike for a car.

Regarding the refund - I told you, at the time, that I had every intention of returning your down payment, and would do it as soon as I was in a position to. But don't think for a moment that I would EVER, under ANY circumstances, break MY bank or hold off pressing financial responsibilities to suit YOUR needs.

Say what you want. You got your refund, and I was more than generous. I told you I'd planned on only giving back your payment less the cost of materials and time I'd already wasted on the sketches, but felt terrible about the duration and opted to give the full amount. If I'd known this would've been your reaction I'd have held back the eighty bucks equivalent.

I have nothing to further to say to you or anyone else on this matter.
lobotomysoup
Dec. 20th, 2009 02:31 am (UTC)
Not trying to be rude, but why did you take any commission in a medium you are unfamiliar with?
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lobotomysoup
Dec. 20th, 2009 02:43 am (UTC)
I know he is claiming to not have been able to get in contact with you, so I"m not going to say anything there. We don't know who's fault that really is. He could just be saying that, he might not have tried, no evidence means no judgmental.

The style of response he gave you was more than unprofessional. If the payment was supposed to be a down payment, he only did not state that AT ALL in his response, but made sure that it sounded like he was demanding more money out of you due to a change of heart.

I do agree that that is a super cheap price, and could understand a desire to charge for more. He had no right to ask though, and after that manor of response, I would have demanded a refund too.

Even with his claims above my post here, that the miss communication and the "down payment" thing is your fault, the fact that it took five months of you badgering him to get your refund, proves that something here is still shady and wrong. It makes it hard to believe him, thats for sure.

Glad you got a refund, and this was a charge and run case.
lobotomysoup
Dec. 20th, 2009 02:44 am (UTC)
For heaven's sake .. Judgment.
(no subject) - bladespark - Dec. 20th, 2009 10:33 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - lobotomysoup - Dec. 20th, 2009 09:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
tentaclejen
Dec. 20th, 2009 03:12 am (UTC)
If I had been on-the-fence after reading Diadexxus's original entry, Exo's reply here sure seemed to help hammer home his caliber of professionalism and interest in customer loyalty (present or future).
hellebore
Dec. 20th, 2009 03:29 am (UTC)
thumbs up
(no subject) - digivolution - Dec. 20th, 2009 05:24 am (UTC) - Expand
phoenixhart
Dec. 20th, 2009 03:33 am (UTC)
Alright, now this is just getting ridiculous.

Waiting until the day you're refunded to kick someone while they're already down from an earlier matter is every bit as unprofessional as anything said in those e-mails. Not to mention - customers are required to keep up a professional air. Customers are expected to treat people with respect. Customers are expected to keep those they commission well-informed. I find it utterly disgusting that customers may be as unprofessional as they desire - sly and deceiving-- and yet the artists they deal with must dot every i and cross every t. Hypocrite much?

I also notice, in your beginning complaint there, you say you agreed upon a price. You never say you agreed upon a size. I know full well that commissioners can be deceptive in explaining what they want in hopes to weasel more out of an artist because they can't afford what the artist needs to make a painting worthwhile to make. I notice how you have none of these e-mails to back up the fact that you agreed on a price prior to sending the payment.

Mind you most people I know who do art outside the furry fandom often take far longer than six months to complete a single painting of that size and detail when dealing with individuals.

And seriously, what on God's Good Green Earth made you think that ANY artist would settle on $100 for a painting of that size? Especially after supplies, it's practically robbery.

Say whatever the you will, but the one with the ego problem here is the OP.
armaina
Dec. 20th, 2009 03:51 am (UTC)
While I agree the price is well under, the fact is it was very clear from the very beginning how large the image would be. And if he had second thoughts, he could have just politely declined and let that be that. However, the fact that it took him so long to provide a refund is awful.
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(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 20th, 2009 05:22 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - canis_ridens - Dec. 20th, 2009 06:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - phoenixhart - Dec. 20th, 2009 07:34 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 20th, 2009 07:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - phoenixhart - Dec. 20th, 2009 08:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - oceandezignz - Dec. 20th, 2009 08:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 20th, 2009 09:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - astralabortion - Dec. 20th, 2009 01:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stormslegacy - Dec. 20th, 2009 05:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stormslegacy - Dec. 20th, 2009 05:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 20th, 2009 07:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kadaria - Dec. 20th, 2009 07:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - starchildebrite - Dec. 24th, 2009 09:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kadaria - Dec. 20th, 2009 04:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
stormslegacy
Dec. 20th, 2009 04:03 am (UTC)
Do either of you have the emails where y'all hammered out the details? because that's the only thing that will really help us understand what exactly happened here.
lilenth
Dec. 20th, 2009 04:20 am (UTC)

Could we see a copy of the agreement on size and pricing please?

Quite frankly I think the artist has behaved poorly and should have made very sure when it came to the terms. (This is why I never conclude work over messengers, I do it via email and repeat back to the customer what they want and the price to make sure we're both on them same page before I go forward).
filthy_animal
Dec. 20th, 2009 04:32 am (UTC)
Not taking sides, but after moving a bunch of times, I just wanted to say that sending mail through paypal can be slowed when you have to change your address on both your bank account and paypal.
mysterymoose
Dec. 20th, 2009 04:45 am (UTC)
^This, agreed.
(no subject) - stormslegacy - Dec. 20th, 2009 04:48 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lobotomysoup - Dec. 20th, 2009 04:53 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - phoenixhart - Dec. 20th, 2009 05:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lobotomysoup - Dec. 20th, 2009 09:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - filthy_animal - Dec. 20th, 2009 05:59 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lobotomysoup - Dec. 20th, 2009 09:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - filthy_animal - Dec. 20th, 2009 10:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - filthy_animal - Dec. 20th, 2009 10:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
thaily
Dec. 20th, 2009 11:15 am (UTC)
Uhm, $100 is entirely a too paltry sum for a 18x24" painting.
His wording was offensive and unwarranted, but his Ego (as you like to capitalize it, as if working for less than minimum wage is a sign of unwarranted arrogance) has nothing to do with it.
The entire matter strikes me as an unfortunate clash of two rude people whom are both lacking in comprehensive reading ability and common sense.

I wouldn't work with either of you.
chronidu
Dec. 20th, 2009 08:07 pm (UTC)
THIS
(no subject) - banrai - Dec. 20th, 2009 10:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
myenia
Dec. 20th, 2009 04:39 pm (UTC)
You know, as much as its a huge problem that he took so long to refund you, and how inappropriate it was for him to talk to you like that or change his amount after starting the commission, my biggest problem with this would be that he didn't even contact you. You had to contact him after they were supposed to be done, and he spent those first 5 months ignoring your commissions. If he knew he was not going to work on them he should have contacted you, and if not, he should have had them by the due date.

It is entirely unacceptable to take someone's money after discussing a commission and not deliver what you've agreed upon. It doesn't matter if the artist gets much better and more popular in a short amount of time- once a commission is paid for, I'd consider that like a contract being signed.
stormslegacy
Dec. 20th, 2009 05:19 pm (UTC)
^this.

Anyone that could possibly use the excuse "I kept the money because I couldn't get in contact with the commissioner no matter what I did" should aquaint themselves with the refund button--it's easy as hell to refund a payment in paypal and it gives the fees back and everything. There. Problem solved, no contact necessary.
(no subject) - astralabortion - Dec. 20th, 2009 07:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stormslegacy - Dec. 20th, 2009 07:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - neive - Dec. 20th, 2009 10:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
zepherfox
Dec. 20th, 2009 05:28 pm (UTC)
posting in an epic thread
Exo, you're a prick
kayla_la
Dec. 20th, 2009 06:06 pm (UTC)
Please refrain from blatant namecalling.
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