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EDIT to orginal wall

Edit. Insulting a persons typing is just as un cool and rude as someone who doesn't try. I don't type well, I'm sorry I have a learning disability that makes editing my own work atrocious at best. I don't bring it up too much because I find people can be very prejudicial and unnecessarily nasty. But this isn't the place to discuss the complexity of types of intelligence and perception. I'm sorry I ruffled so many english professors. So bear with me please.

I've debated posting here for some time. It's easy to Get labeled whiny or demanding or misunderstood. This is a very touchy subject for many.

For time line and details. ( takes a deep breath Probably too long didn't read. )

First commission was bought At MFF 06. Which I think was still held in November. Colored single character simple background. Nothing too fancy. To be honest I can't even remember the pose ideas Or the medium for coloring. Paid upfront. 35 USD

Second was bought at AC 06 the Person who was still a friend at the time was suffering some fiscal issues and low sales, feeling sorry I said Well okay you still gotta do my color work but sure. Just draw me up a single character inked. For approx 25 USD.

I say the total is 80 bucks because of the USD to Canadian Dollar exchange rates are close.

At one point I think they gave a few refunds but I was not contacted. And at the time of the refunds had a deadline. I did not find out until it was too late. Reading how the person was in financial woe. I felt sorry for them. So I did not make much a fuss then. I mean hard times happen to everyone. I then simply said. If it takes you a few months up to year to do It I'm okay as long as you do it.
One other Time I was put on the " List" But with no indication how long this list was or a time line.

Over the years I've sent notes and once asked them at a con if they would do it. I got a beat around the bush reply. I usually waste little time telling people how I feel. But when it comes to furry art I've learned the moment you call out a popular artist for owed artwork. Or disrupt a popular furs good name in ANY WAY You get smashed down hard by them and their fans. It can make things difficult for you. Buying and selling art seems simple. But given how popular this group is it's a complex issue. Subject to interpretations and many differing opinions. I'm very patient when it comes to Commissions.
Jobs happen life happens. Naturally life does come first but where do we draw the lines? Over a year and It starts to get tiresome. Perhaps I sound impatient now, but for what I paid I think I should have been given something. And people are right. I am somewhat angry/fustrated. When I see someone offering sales and selling new commissions and completing them before my pre paid work back from 06 hasn't been done. I'd like to think my frustration is more then justified after this long a time has passed.

Another reason I'm avoiding too much discussion face to face is the person recently moved to my area. From across the country. And is currently dating one of my good friends. People are very inclined to defend their Significant other despite a wrong doing And to be honest I'd like to keep that friendship in tact. I cant just stop a social game night And go So hey X what about my commissions you've owed me? * cue awkward silence and drama*

I'm sort of looking for the right wording to say to this person. I've been tempted to out their name but I'm hoping for a more peaceful end. Thanks for the help and imput earlier.

Thank you.

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( 24 comments — Leave a comment )
Dec. 9th, 2009 07:14 pm (UTC)

A number of things occured to me upon reading this post (which was very hard for reasons I will explain).

Formatting, please for the love of little green apples put in some paragraph breaks, it's very hard to read a text wall. Also you might want to fix the grammar and capitalisation to make it more legible. It is readable but it's an honest to god slog to get through it.

Secondly, there's not enough information in this post. How much did you pay for the items? What did you commission? One picture? A bookmark? How long has it been? Have you seen any signs of work, ie a sketch? Has the artist said anything to you about why your work is not done yet? Have you discussed it with them and agreed on anything? Was there even a deadline in the first place?

You want advice, we need to know what the timeline is and what the exact situation is to give you that advice.
Dec. 9th, 2009 07:18 pm (UTC)
I'm going to ok this, but by your post it seems you've already flipped your lid some. The wall of text is a smidge on the 'grr i r mad' tone.

How long has it been exactly since you've 'helped' them out? I will agree $80 (if that is what you paid) is a lot, and if they're not producing what you've asked for then I would suggest a deadline or a refund (if you paid via PayPal and didn't wait too long/didn't use the 'gift' option you might have a chance to pull the cash back).
Dec. 10th, 2009 02:13 am (UTC)
Adding to my own comment here:

That upper paragraph is not necessary. When you come to A_B it just -helps- to be clear and almost as emotionless in your post as possible. Concise and to the point helps a lot to let us here give you the answers you need.

Also. 3 years, two separate pieces of owed work. Out them immediately. At this point names need to be named, and it just might be the only way to get them to get in gear and give you owed work.

Don't be afraid of these so-called lynch mobs of people who will 'attack' you, its your money. Again. Send another letter (note, email, physical even), all reading the same thing, with the same deadline and if its not met you'll simply be reporting them again.
Dec. 9th, 2009 07:28 pm (UTC)
Okay, raeg aside and bad grammar aside...

Yes, it is completely valid to ask for some progress after this long and ask for a completion by a certain deadline or just a refund entirely.

Ask about it causally and nicely. Avoid accusing, avoid cussing. Stay straight and to the point, don't point fingers, only use facts. Be firm but polite.
Dec. 9th, 2009 07:38 pm (UTC)
Not to be snarky (who am I kidding, yes I am), but you need to clean up your post. It's horribly hard to give advice when the problem isn't clear. This is what I got from your post:

You paid 80$ for a commission. Haven't gotten it for three years.

We need more detail in order to be able to help. You said you paid 80$ - for what? You said "art", "art" doesn't help. What is this "art"? A drawing? A plushie? What? That makes a big difference in how to handle it.

"Is it within my grounds to ask for a deadline now?" If it's really been THREE YEARS, then YES, you are will within your grounds. Unless they have a really, really good excuse, three years is an insane amount of time to take on a commission, no matter what it is.

The best way to handle it is just ASK. You say you've sent notes and IMs - what have you said in these IMs? Everything here is extremely vague.

Ask him IRL. If he's really a friend of yours like you said, he should give you an answer. Be nice. Ask casually. Something like "Hey, buddy, it's been like... years since I've commissioned you. What's going on? Can we talk about that?" Don't be rude, don't demand anything (yet), just ask casually like you're just curious.
Dec. 9th, 2009 07:47 pm (UTC)
You seem to be very non-confrontational about this commission.

It's been 3 years and no sign of your work... so you use a timid form of faceless communication like IMs and emails dispite the fact you live near them. You really need to confront them face-to-face and be straightforward: "I paid you for art 3 YEARS ago, give me back my money or product my art."

You are worried about making you friend upset, however all you are doing now is brooding quiet passive agressive animosity.
(no subject) - fenris_lorsrai - Dec. 9th, 2009 07:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
Dec. 9th, 2009 08:23 pm (UTC)
I know this has been beat to death in this community, but seriously why is it so hard to at least ATTEMPT coherent communication using grammar, punctuation and capitalization skills most of us learned in 3rd grade? If you just take 5 minutes out of your time to go over your post and correct a few things, use paragraph breaks, and do a general proofreading, it makes your argument all the more convincing and spawns less comments such as these. Proof reading is never a waste of time in these instances.

As for your dilemma, to echo here, we need more information in terms of how much you paid, how the payment was sent, etc. If you are afraid of in person conflict with this person, why not just send them a friendly email asking about your commission, or tell your friend that this person owes you a commission?

Dec. 9th, 2009 08:32 pm (UTC)
Don't think you have to take the guy aside to ask him about your commission, unless you don't trust yourself to not raeg all over him in public, a casual "Speaking of art, how's my commission looking?" would be a good continuation of the numerous notes you sent him.
(Deleted comment)
Dec. 10th, 2009 12:39 am (UTC)
Person is dating one of best friends.
Dec. 10th, 2009 01:18 am (UTC)
Doesn't prevent you from calling when they're not in the same location.

Give him a call. A text. A something better than an email. Even if it means going straight to voicemail at least it's more personal that way.
Dec. 10th, 2009 09:25 am (UTC)
If your friend is really your friend, he/she will understand that 3 years is too long to wait for two small commissions. Even if the person not delivering is his/her partner.
Dec. 9th, 2009 10:17 pm (UTC)
Friends don't do these things to other friends. Definitely confront him IN PERSON, ask casually, be polite. I know when I make friends wait forever I start feeling guilty too. So don't bite his head off :X

Edit: Nothing personal but the anecdote about your job wasn't really necessary xD;; it's frowned upon pretty much everywhere!

Edited at 2009-12-09 10:19 pm (UTC)
Dec. 10th, 2009 12:42 am (UTC)
Well I find it annoying when someone claims this is their "job" with such a lack of work ethics and slow productivity. Its no wonder some people cry starving artist. Just saying it kinda goes both ways. Thanks for the imput.
Dec. 9th, 2009 10:58 pm (UTC)
Don't wait to pull them aside. You see them all the time, right? Take out/pick up the phone and call them. Then it's one-on-one and you get the job done.
Dec. 9th, 2009 11:45 pm (UTC)
A year would have been ridiculous. Three is just pathetic. Quit stewing about it and tell them flat-out that this is unacceptable.
Dec. 10th, 2009 12:23 am (UTC)
I can't comment until I see some periods and carriage returns. Don't make people, who want to help, try to muck through your wall of text.
Dec. 10th, 2009 04:15 am (UTC)
Alrighty, the grammar already got addressed. And I'm sure people weren't intending to make it seem like they were bashing your intelligence for it. Its just something that happens more than it should on here - Everyone honestly wants to help. It just seems like for the good advice you're seeking you're not presenting a good case for them to help you yanno?

But anyway, thats already done with so to your actual problem.

Friends sometimes are more relaxed on commissions from other friends, hell, I've been guilty of that. But you need to realize that even though they're your friend/dating your friend: It is still a business issue. This is dealing with money and goods/services. So this shouldn't affect the friendship unless they try to skimp on their part of the deal even after you confront them.

Like someone else said, confronting is a must at this point. Since it becomes a case of you're not really a victim if you're letting them do that to you - And you're not trying to actually change it. Just sitting there building up animosity completes nothing but making YOU feel awful. :/ I also know how that is.

So as to what to actually do...obviously don't do it among a huge group of people or fly off the handle at them. But maybe if it is a party find a time where he's more by himself, or just anytime you, your friend, and his S/O are hanging out just casually bring it up.

"Hey, I don't mean for this to be awkward or anything but. Its been on my mind lately that its been three years since I paid you for those commissions, and I've been wanting to know where on your to-do list they actually lie." Not rude, or huffy, or anything. But just something along those lines. Have a more cheerful voice like its not actually eating at you - Its just on your mind. Considering its a business thing, it might cause a little stiffness but it has to be done. And gauge their response from there.

Hopefully they'll have a little embarrassment, apologize, and give you a date. Then you'll have to steer it from there. Maybe when they get into the conversation of saying when they'll have it done or whatever, ask if you can make a solid date and if not workout a plan for a refund (getting it on writing would be best). If your friend is there, it might be even better if you stay calm and polite and he can at least be witness as to how it went down. That way its not like his S/O can tell him a different version like you just came out harassing him or anything. Since you were happy to help them at the time, but you'd still like what you were expecting - Hopefully they just need a stern reminder of that.

If anything, you can bring it up to your friend instead of going to the artist. Explain in a casual way its been a few years since then, and you don't want to make anything awkward but its starting to concern you. So maybe your friend can poke at them and see where it is on their to-do list for you, or have him ask his partner to talk to you privately about it. Thats not rude or unreasonable, and if he starts flying up into arms just from that? You can realize that he's not much of a friend anyway if he holds his partner that high on a pedestal, compared to a simple request from his friend. Real friends know the difference between right and wrong, even if it includes someone they're dating.

Keep us updated, maybe let us know how you plan to confront him so we can still help you through the process. But like others have said it is simply a matter of you need to get over the fact that they're friends. If anything, try to use it to your advantage. And if he tries to react poorly about it, you can tell him to please be reasonable otherwise you'll go public about his bad service. If he continues? Then list names so we can know and it can get out.

Don't feel powerless, since if he cares about his reputation, you have some leverage. And while obviously don't be rude or overbearing to him, don't let yourself get bullied either! :)
Dec. 10th, 2009 05:31 am (UTC)
Side note:
Don't get huffy because people pointed out that your post was difficult to read. It isn't about english professors, grammar police or calling you an idiot. If it isn't easy to read or understand, how can people help you? It's like getting offended when someone asks you to please slow down if you're talking too fast.

I think, if you out their name - which is your decision really, aren't you just doing what you say you're too afraid to do? You're afraid to out them because of their popularity or because of their relationship with a friend, but surely putting their name on a "beware of unreliable artist" list is letting the world know that they're unreliable. Which, you know, is fair enough if they are unreliable, but you're doing this because you're too afraid to talk to them face to face even though you have the opportunity to?

The artist HAS been unreasonable and has taken your "shhh, don't say anything, don't rock the boat" attitude to get away with not doing the work they owe you. Insist they do it, since it is owed to you. Awkward, difficult, whatever - but what are y'gonna do? Either way, there's a confrontation, isn't there? Be it a direct one, or a "hey, I saw what you said about me on that beware community! Why couldn't you have come to me first?!" one. You don't have to be rude about it, even if you are furious, but it's better that you get it out now rather than doing things out of anger and frustration when they probably don't even know that you are in any way annoyed at them.

Dec. 10th, 2009 07:41 am (UTC)
Thank you for all the helpful advice.
Dec. 10th, 2009 02:27 pm (UTC)

"Edit. Insulting a persons typing is just as un cool and rude as someone who doesn't try. I don't type well, I'm sorry I have a learning disability that makes editing my own work atrocious at best."

I have two learning disabilities and a number of physical disabilities. No learning disability makes the enter key disappear, as for the rest, that's why we have spellcheck or you ask someone else to look over and beta the post before you post if it's really that hard and you need a legible post.

Also your journal reveals that you can type legibly so kindly do not undermine learning disabilities by using them as an excuse for a simple lack of care, it's insulting to those of us who don't use ours as an excuse.

"I don't bring it up too much because I find people can be very prejudicial and unnecessarily nasty. But this isn't the place to discuss the complexity of types of intelligence and perception. I'm sorry I ruffled so many english professors. So bear with me please."

As has been said, there are people here with learning disabilities. Also nobody suggested anything about intelligence or English professors, we simply asked for an effort to make a wall of text run on post into something that can be read easily.

Furthermore, do you realise how hard it is to read a wall of text when you have a learning disability? It's worse than it is for people without LDs so when you type enormous blocks you're doing a disfavour to readers with LDs because you make them work twice as hard without rest to decipher your epic block of text.

Also 35 + 25 = 60, not 80.

If your friend is going to support their significant other who is being unprofessional rather than you when you politely ask for the work to be completed, they're not a very good friend.

I'd suggest talking to the artist, say something like "It's been three years since you took my two commissions, you've done work for others in the meantime. I believe you to be a professional so, I'd like the commissions I've paid for by "insert date" or regretably I'll have to inform others that you have failed to complete paid for work within a reasonable timeframe."

At this point you really have to issue a deadline and an ultimatum or just write the expense off.
Dec. 12th, 2009 09:01 am (UTC)
the exchange rate At the time of the commissions wasn't as Nice as it is now. Thanks for the advice.
Dec. 11th, 2009 12:21 am (UTC)
I'm not really sure what the heck you're asking for here. You've told us that you're unwilling to mention the commissions to her. So... what wording are you after? "Hey, there's this thing, but I don't want to bother you, but this thing, see, I'd like to get my thing."

What possibly "wording" is there, other than a polite "Hey, I was wondering when my commissions will be done?"
Dec. 11th, 2009 01:59 am (UTC)
Oh jeeze can you tone down the butthurt a bit? Please stop using "learning disabilities OMG" as an excuse not to proofread your post. The fact that you can turn around and type in a coherent matter second time around means you can do it, it just takes a bit more effort on your part first time around. Learn from the experience so the next time you post on a community with this many members that you don't come off seeming literate lazy.
( 24 comments — Leave a comment )


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