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Issues with Shiuk

More new information: Shiuk refunded me a lot sooner than either of us expected. This issue is hereby resolved.

New Information: Shiuk contacted me and said he would refund in full. He says he has no money at the moment and that "it will be awhile" before we receive it, but as soon as the refund is submitted and completed, I will have this entry marked as resolved (but not until then).

I absolutely hate that I have to actually make use of my membership here, but I am afraid that I've finally reached somewhat of a breaking point in my patience in regards to a particular set of commissons that has long-since been owed. What makes posting here even more disheartening is that I'm actually having to 'target' it at a rather popular artist in the furry community.

Back in early March of 2008, my fiance contacted Shiuk and, after exchanging a couple of emails, ordered two reference sheets (one was to be of his character, the other was to be mine). Payment was sent and completed on March 10, 2008. At first, contact between my fiance and the artist was reasonable and, at some point between May and July, we even got a rough W.I.P. sketch of one of the sheets.

After that, though, all we got were delays, excuses, or silence. My fiance would send emails that would take a considerable amount of time to be responded to (if they were responded to at all) and, each time there was an excuse for why the pieces weren't done (he was always either sick, out of town, at a family member's house, or something of that nature) and, according to my fiance, he even offered to throw in 'a little something extra' to make up for the wait (which I figure most artists do when they realize that they're not really performing as they should be; at this point, though, I don't give a damn about that 'extra' one bit). It eventually reached the point where my fiance would send emails and we'd just never hear anything back.

In February of this year, my fiance got tired of receiving no contact and just gave up, telling me that he wasn't even going to bother pursuing the issue anymore (he's had artists 'take the money and run' in the past and he feels that, after a certain point, it's not worth the time, effort, or stress to hunt them down to get them to do their work). At this point, I took over the task of making sure the art got done (not only wasn't I going to let my fiance just throw that kind of money down the drain, but I think it would be a bad idea to send ANY artist the message that it's okay to do nothing after receiving payment). On February 14th, I sent Shiuk the following PM over FurAffinity:

-----

Commission(s) Status Update - Contact Information
Sent By: Shadow_Coon On: February 14th, 2009 10:27


Howdy!

I'm Pockets' fiance (Shadow Coon) and lately he's been thinking that perhaps his emails to you and/or your emails to him in regards to a commission/some commissions he ordered around April/May last year are being bounced back or aren't getting through (he has a ***.net email address and it's not uncommon to encounter issues like that).

I wasn't certain if he'd managed to get a hold of you and provide you with any additional contact information if those errors were, in fact, occurring, so I figured I'd drop you a line just in case.

Any and all status updates in regards to the commission(s) can be sent my email address (***@***.com) in addition to Pockets' primary email address (***@***.net).

If you have any news or updates in regards to the commission, don't hesitate to drop me a line and I'll pass it along, in case he doesn't receive it!

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope to hear back soon! :3


-----------

Two minutes later, he responded:

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RE: Commission(s) Status Update - Contact Information
Sent By: shiuk On: February 14th, 2009 10:29


Ah ok :o

well everything should be done between next weekend and the following :o


-----------

I was pleasantly surprised that I'd managed to get ahold of him and that he'd responded so insanely quickly. I was somewhat gloating to my fiance and suggested that maybe he'd just not gone about the right way of contacting Shiuk, to which he replied by telling me that he'd heard the same thing several of the times he'd talked with him, so I'd 'do best to not get my hopes up.' I thought he was being a bit melodramatic and awaited Shiuk uploading the picture.

In hindsight, I should have realized that there was something fishy about that promise to deliver, simply because, normally, an artist would be sending W.I.P. sketches back and forth to the commissioner to see if designs/color schemes were correct. This is something Shiuk had not been doing at all, so I really should have caught on.

As I -should have- expected, not only did 'next weekend and the following' pass, but an additional two weekends past as well. As such, on March 15th, I sent Shiuk another message:

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RE: Commission(s) Status Update - Contact Information
Sent By: Shadow_Coon On: March 15th, 2009 06:37


Howdy!

I contacted you shortly over a month ago (February 14th to be exact) in regards to the status of Pockets' commission(s) on his behalf / in order to inform you of additional contact information.

I was just noting you again to see if you had any more updates in regards to the status since a month had passed.

In any case, I hope you're doing well and that you manage to respond soonish. :3


-----------

There was no response, so, six days later, I sent another message:

-----

Commissions' Statuses Update
Sent By: Shadow_Coon On: March 21st, 2009 04:13


Hello there!

I was just contacting you on behalf of Pockets to see if you had any more updates or W.I.P.s you could send us pertaining to his commissions. It's been over a month since we last heard from you in regards to the commissions' statuses (quoted below) and we're sending this message again just in case there was an issue with FA bouncing notes. We'll be sending a copy of this message to your email on the off-chance that that's what's happening. :3

I hope you're doing well and we look forward to hearing back from you soon!

Sincerely,
Shadow Coon and Pockets


-----------

About an hour and a half later, I received a response:

-----

RE: Commissions' Statuses Update
Sent By: shiuk On: March 21st, 2009 05:41


I got a bit absent minded this past week, but things should be done hopefully by the end of the month :3

----------

Yet again, I (out of nothing less than sheer stupidity/ignorance) was appeased by this response, thanked him, and began waiting. Yet again, no uploads or contacts occurred for a month, so I contacted him again on April 21st:

-----

RE: Commissions' Statuses Update
Sent By: Shadow_Coon On: April 21st, 2009 06:10


Hello again!

It's been a month since I last contacted you (your reply quoted below, as per usual) and I was just contacting you on behalf of Pockets to check on the statuses of the reference sheets he commissioned of our characters awhile back. Perhaps a WIP or just a general "this is the status" description. Either is fine. :3

Your ustream reminded me that I hadn't been checking my inbox on here lately, so I did and noticed that it had been a bit since I last gave you a poke. X3

In any case, I do thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope everything is going well with you! :3

We look forward to hearing back from you soon!

Sincerely,
Pockets and Shadow Coon


-----------

No response. I USUALLY contact a week after sending my "it's been a month since we last discussed matters" inquiry if they don't reply, but I was slacking off and ended up sending another PM on May 5th:

-----

Commission Statuses Updates?
Sent By: Shadow_Coon On: May 5th, 2009 06:27


Resending this message (it was originally sent two weeks ago on Tuesday, April 21st) just in case you might have missed it.

We hope to hear back from you soon.

[quoted message from April 21st]


-----------

Again, no response, so I sent ANOTHER message (both over PM AND to his email address):

-----

Re: Commissions Statuses Updates
Sent By: Shadow_Coon On: May 14th, 2009 04:38


Resending this message (it was originally sent three weeks ago on Tuesday, April 21st) just in case you might have missed it.

We hope to hear back from you soon.

Note: Yes, I know I've sent these once a week since April 21st. My way of keeping in contact with artists for commission status updates involves contacting, waiting a month after receiving contact, contacting again, and, if no response comes, contacting once a week until the artist DOES respond. This shouldn't be an issue, I'd hope. :3


[quoted message from April 21st]

-----------

Obviously I was a little annoyed/fed up from having not heard from him in almost two months, but I think I did a decent enough job not being a complete asshole about it (for some reason, my PM just seems rude to me). I think what got on my bad side was the fact that Shiuk hadn't even read the two previous PMs I had sent, despite having been rather active on FurAffinity during that time. I mean, he has enough free time to add several pieces to his favorites and add thirty-seven new submissions (which includes his seven scraps), but he can't find the time to check and respond to his private messages/email? I can occasionally be really gullible/naive, but even I'm not buying that BS. My guess is that he's just ignoring us now.

So here we are: it's May 23rd, 2009, we've been waiting over a year and two months for two reference sheets, and I've not heard from Shiuk in over two months. The thing that bugs me the most about this whole situation is that, despite our wait, Shiuk's been open for commissions the whole time. In my personal opinion, if you have a customer who's already paid up-front for their pieces sitting on the backburner for over a year, then you should either NOT be taking commissions or, at the very least, be finishing up that person's artwork FIRST.

If anyone happens to know Shiuk, is there any chance you could point him to this entry? Maybe his 'dirty laundry' hanging out will convince him to get back on track. At this point, refund is NOT an option. After waiting this long for the pieces, having our money thrown back at us would be nothing short of insulting. We'd like our art and for there to be PROPER communication between ourselves and the artist in question. I shouldn't have to hunt him down and be given excuses when what we honestly want are W.I.P. sketches (because we'd like to be able to have a say in something we paid for before it's just tossed to us). This transaction should have taken a few months at most; not over a year.

There you have it. For commissioners, consider this somewhat of a warning. For artists, consider this an example of what NOT to do. If your commissioner is the one having to contact YOU all of the time, you're doing something wrong (unless the commissioner is hounding you once a day, in which case you needn't feel guilty).

*Disclaimer: I apologize for the overuse of commas and for not tagging this entry with artist-shiuk (it wouldn't let me tag for some reason. xD)

Community Tags:

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https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 41 comments — Leave a comment )
kerstin_orion
May. 24th, 2009 03:25 am (UTC)
Only moderators may create and delete tags, and tag entries. :) I have tagged your entry.

There was a previous entry with Shiuk which was resolved to the satisfaction of the commissioner. You can find it by browsing posts with the "resolved" tag.
shadow_coon
May. 24th, 2009 03:29 am (UTC)
Ah! Thank you for tagging it for me, dear. :3

I'll take a look into that entry. I thought I had seen an issue involving him not too long ago. Thank you for pointing me towards it.
spiffystuff
May. 24th, 2009 03:49 am (UTC)
Two things.
1 - I think you were going about this in a sub-optimal way... all your emails to the artist make it sound like there's no problem and they can take all the time in the world. Obviously an artist shouldn't take advantage of that, but still, I think you really ought to make it clear you are growing very unsatisfied with the situation. Some people just won't pay attention otherwise.
2 - I think refusing to allow a refund as an option is a bad idea. I certainly don't think the artist should be allowed to take your fiance's money and run, but if they issue a refund then they won't have done that.
Not saying that Shiuk will want to refund you, but it makes you look a little unreasonable to say that.

Of course, Shiuk needs to get with the program and stop ignoring you/your fiance.
shadow_coon
May. 24th, 2009 04:06 am (UTC)
1. I can certainly agree that perhaps I'm not being as upfront about my dissatisfaction as I should be, which would probably make more of a difference if he was actually reading the messages I've sent. FA has that system where you can see whether or not a message has been read and every message I've sent since I last heard from him on March 21st hasn't been looked at (which I addressed by saying that there's no way he could be as active as he is and not have had the time to read/respond to his messages). I'm always really wary about being obviously dissatisfied about a situation like this because I was afraid that, if I did communicate that, he'd start intentionally avoiding my messages... which seems to be the case anyway, oddly enough.

2. Again, I can agree, but I'm personally just very iffy about asking for/accepting a refund on the basis that - one, we've given up time, patience, and money; not just the money and two, something tells me that a 'fee' would be extracted because work has been done on at least one of the pieces (as we received a rough W.I.P. sketch of one of the sheets back between May and July '08). While we WANT the art (despite this ridiculous wait), if he refused to do it and offered us a -full- refund, we wouldn't deny him that. We'd just prefer that he does what he was paid to do.

I can be a stubborn man at times, I suppose.
(no subject) - spiffystuff - May. 24th, 2009 04:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - May. 24th, 2009 09:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadow_coon - May. 24th, 2009 01:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
melloyellowduck
May. 24th, 2009 04:00 am (UTC)
I commissioned Shiuk in the past and waited over a year for my commission :/ I had commissioned him for a Valentines gift for my bf at the time... He said he'd have it done before Valentines day, I didn't end up getting it until after Valentines day a year later x.o His communication skills were bad, he was doing personal art and art for friends and other things while I was waiting and he lost the info for the picture countless times... When he was done he offered to do something else for me for free but I was so annoyed by the whole thing that I didn't even want to bother :/ I hope you get your art from him someday.
shadow_coon
May. 24th, 2009 04:15 am (UTC)
That was really frustrating too. It bugs me every time I see him posting personal art or commissions/gifts that he obviously took on after our order was placed, simply because of how unbelievably unprofessional that is. If you have commissioners who've been waiting (patiently or otherwise), they should take priority over anyone who ordered after them, ESPECIALLY if you're like Shiuk and constantly have your commission slots open.

While it wouldn't excuse the wait (as I'm of the opinion that, unless you're of the same caliber as DarkNatasha, Kaji, or the Blotch duo, your commissioner should NEVER have to wait over a year for a piece), better communication would have made this a bit more bearable. As I said before, if, as an artist, you're finding that your commissioner is having to contact you more than you're contacting them (unless they're being overly aggressive about it), then there's a problem with the way you're handling your commissions plain and simple.
(no subject) - thaily - May. 24th, 2009 09:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadow_coon - May. 24th, 2009 01:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eonii - May. 25th, 2009 12:40 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - May. 25th, 2009 12:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eonii - May. 25th, 2009 01:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - May. 25th, 2009 08:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - May. 25th, 2009 08:07 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - May. 25th, 2009 04:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadow_coon - May. 25th, 2009 01:42 am (UTC) - Expand
minimalismo
May. 24th, 2009 05:06 am (UTC)
I would take a telephone number (or two) from all clients so that I can reach them asap... it is worth a small long distance charge!
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - thaily - May. 24th, 2009 09:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - minimalismo - May. 25th, 2009 06:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
thaily
May. 24th, 2009 09:00 am (UTC)
"In hindsight, I should have realized that there was something fishy about that promise to deliver, simply because, normally, an artist would be sending W.I.P. sketches back and forth to the commissioner to see if designs/color schemes were correct. This is something Shiuk had not been doing at all, so I really should have caught on."

That's a really good point, something customers should be aware of when they commission someone so they can catch on to slacking artists before a year or more passes. I'm doing a character sheet for someone and I'm bugging the hell out of him with questions about little details most people never even consider, options for possibly attractive alternatives to clothes, accessories, hair styles etc.

Despite your personal feelings I think you need to stop bugging him for the art and start bugging for a FULL refund, it'll prompt him to produce any work he might have no in order to determine how much you should be refunded, if he responds at all. If he can't even finish 1 piece after a year, hoping he'll finish both your commissions within a reasonable timespan is right out!
shadow_coon
May. 24th, 2009 01:33 pm (UTC)
I believe that, at the time, I was relieved that I was getting responses from him, which in turn made me not really think about it. It was only during this time that I took up the task of making sure we got our art that I started to really ponder about the situation and realized that 'hey... my character design has changed lately (albeit not extensively) and, if I'd like my sheet done right, I would need to be able to communicate this to him.' That's what prompted me asking for W.I.P.s (which, as you can see, was ignored and addressed more with excuses than actual deliverance).

I would consider begging for a refund if it weren't for the fact that, as we speak, the messages I sent on April 21st, May 5th, and May 14th -still- haven't been read. That was a deciding factor for making this entry: perhaps if I make it apparent that he has performed unprofessional in a place such as this, someone will give him the heads up and he'll approach me. I've approached him and I seem to be being given the 'cold shoulder,' so maybe this is what it will take for him to get his act together.

Again, though, if he offered a -full- refund and said he had no intention of doing the art and behaving professionally in the process, I'd just take it and be done with this mess. I'd still be bitter towards him, but I think that's to be expected.
purpule
May. 24th, 2009 11:17 am (UTC)
Dude, I actually think you've been TOO nice! Though I understand you not wanting to solund rude or snappy because I have that problem meself, and I think that might actually make the artist go "ah well, sure, they're clearly not all THAT bothered, so I won't make it a priority"

"absent minded" is such a woeful excuse, I would never forgive myself if I had a list of commissioners and I just FORGOT one of them, ESPECIALLY if I was ignoring them so much that they had to contact me several times via email.

This lad has no excuse, I can't believe how unprofessional he's being. I think perhaps your best bet would be a refund at this stage.
shadow_coon
May. 24th, 2009 01:41 pm (UTC)
I do have a problem with being too nice and it's an issue I can't seem to get a proper handle on. I just don't like pissing people off/upsetting them, particularly when they've already received money and are responsible for providing a piece of art. xD

I don't normally buy the 'absent-minded' excuse one bit, but, at the time, I did because I was relieved he was responding. I kept thinking 'he's a busy man and perhaps he just got overwhelmed,' but I'm past that now. I'm at the point that I realize that the behavior and excuses were incredibly unprofessional and that he needs to get his butt back on track.

Requesting anything, art or refund, would be much more effective if he was actually reading my messages. I will settle for a full refund if he offers it (and hopefully an apology for his lack of professionalism will come with it, but I'm not holding out for that much).
(no subject) - purpule - May. 24th, 2009 01:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadow_coon - May. 24th, 2009 02:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - keaalu - May. 24th, 2009 02:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadow_coon - May. 24th, 2009 02:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eonii - May. 25th, 2009 12:44 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - purpule - May. 25th, 2009 12:49 am (UTC) - Expand
lilenth
May. 24th, 2009 01:05 pm (UTC)

Absent minded? Losing a sketch for a day or two while you look for it because you put it somewhere and can't remember where is absent minded. (I do this quite often unfortunately, usually I find them pretty fast but there have been a couple of times when I've torn my bedroom apart because zomg I lost a commission sketch and the customer is waiting).

Seriously, two character sheets should not take over a year. I'd suggest asking for a full refund and commissioning another more reliable artist.
shadow_coon
May. 24th, 2009 01:48 pm (UTC)
Being 'absent minded' was a very piss-poor excuse and I kick myself for not catching onto that at the time.

Hopefully this journal will prompt him to contact me (so I -can- ask for a refund) because my attempts to get ahold of him have proven fairly unsuccessful since March 21st. It may be me being paranoid, but I do get the feeling he's just ignoring me and hoping I go away because there's no way he could have enough time to add favorites and submit so many new pieces, but still busy that he can't take five/ten minutes out of his day to read and reply to his messages.
(no subject) - lilenth - May. 24th, 2009 02:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadow_coon - May. 24th, 2009 02:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - May. 24th, 2009 02:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eonii - May. 25th, 2009 12:46 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
shadow_coon
May. 24th, 2009 01:53 pm (UTC)
The more I read and reply to these comments, the more tempted I am to ask for a refund if he contacts me (which I think is likely because he does have a fanbase that, at times, can be overly-loyal and would give him the heads up more because someone's 'sullying his good name' than it being due to him screwing up and managing to tick a customer off).

When I think about it, an artist working with someone who's pointed out their bad business practices is a fairly tense situation and I have a bad feeling that, if we did get our art, it would be half-assed and thrown at us just to get us to shut up about it. I'd honestly rather have the money back than getting pieces that aren't worth what was paid for them...
almightytora
May. 24th, 2009 04:38 pm (UTC)
I have IMed Shiuk this entry and hope he contacts you again.

(Last time I IMed him an entry, he quickly finished it up, hence the success story that was recently done.)
shadow_coon
May. 24th, 2009 04:56 pm (UTC)
Thank you for contacting him, dear.

I just want to make it clear (because I know that you're a fan/friend of Shiuk) that I'm not trying to attack him as a person. I don't know this fellow on any level other than 'he's artistic,' so I'm hoping that this isn't coming off as a personal issue. My guff revolves around the fact that this was a clear display of a lack of professionalism and on a rather large level at that. I understand he's a busy fellow, but he's not so busy that it excuses this kind of unprofessional behavior.

I wouldn't exactly call having to be issued a refund for a commission due to a lack of professionalism a 'success story' on a positive note, but more so successful in a 'something finally got done, though I had to lose my patience with the artist and call him out on it first' sense. I'm hoping that, at the very least, this situation will get through to him by teaching him that perhaps he should work on his business practices (though I can't help but find that to be unlikely seeing as how it seems he didn't learn from his errors with past issues).
zackfig
May. 24th, 2009 08:49 pm (UTC)
While I'm glad that you are going to be getting a refund (eventually) - I always find it sad when artists take payment in full and then squander their time, specially while during that long span they post art here and there for other people and your commission, that was already paid in full, sits in the back burner.

I understand when there are personal/family issues that hold up the commissions -- but there are times when the artist is just, well... lazy? Some artists actually attribute it to being unmotivated or not in the mood

It is basically what keeps me from commissioning people more often. I've been in situations where I've waited 18 months before getting anything.

No, this is not about this artist, but I am sure all of us have encountered an artist that generally fits what I'm talking about -- it just seems that this was the case in this situation as well...
( 41 comments — Leave a comment )

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