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Morning all,

I'm new to the community, but I've been reading it on and off for some time. I hoped that I would never have to use it, but I do now.

At Anthrocon, I commissioned KKitty23 for a badge. It was a small badge, I think I only paid $5 for it, and she didn't manage to get it done before the end of the convention. I was cool with that, because I know that that happens a lot.

A couple weeks after the con, maybe not that long, I sent her my mailing address on DA. She never responded to me, so after waiting for a while, I sent her another message, which also included my mailing address again, just to see if she had gotten it. Again- no reply.

Sometime between then and November, I sent her another message that inquired about her work status. Once again, NO REPLY. So in November, when the fourth month was rolling past, I sent her a letter that said, because of her inability to reply to me, and at least give me acknowledgement, she had two months to complete my art or give me a refund. Else, I was going to be posting her name to buyer beware communities and putting her on peoples' blacklists.

This is about the only thing that got a reply out of her- THREATS. Now, I wasn't particularly inflammatory, I didn't cuss (with the exclusion of the word shit-list), and I told her that she would not have incurred this if she had had the simple courtesy to reply to me when I sent her messages. I also inquired about all of the hidden messages on her DA page, and the fact that she was doing commissions for other people.

The response I got back was severely abusive, and referenced me to a journal post she made in October on DA. The journal said she was offering refunds, and that if you had commissioned her at Anthrocon, to send her a note. The problem with this is that I don't really watch her. (I don't think her style is THAT great, I just thought it would make for a really nice badge for the cutesy character in question.) And again, I had sent her my physical mailing address TWICE. She could have slipped a $5 bill or a check into an envelope and called it a day.

Instead, she waited until a few days ago to hunt me down on FA. Notedly, I had never checked my DA after I sent the letter to her that said I would be putting her on my shit-list, but she had my FA and my email address, which I gave to her at the convention. All in all, I have had a very bad experience with this person. She has said more than once, by her own admission that she is bad at handling her work load, she doesn't do commissions in order, that she does commissions on "her terms" (whatever that means) and that "all an artist owes you if you commission them is art or a refund".

So when she says that all she owes you is a commission or a refund, she means that. In other words, she feels no need to offer you timeliness, courteous replies, or in fact, even acknowledgement (unless you threaten her). She doesn't feel that it is her responsibility as the person holding your money, to contact -you-, either, she expects you to keep up with -her-. Personally, I'd be wary of this person on many levels. Not only has she been this way to me about this commission, but she had all her little friends trolling me on FA when I made a journal about it. She's calling me immature and making it seem as though my threat letter was my first attempt to contact her or something, when in fact, I made several very polite, nay, even PLEASANT attempts to contact her before that point.

Many thanks for the privilege to post in this community. I'm sorry it had to be done.

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( 39 comments — Leave a comment )
Feb. 13th, 2009 02:43 am (UTC)
..was severely abusive, and referenced me to a journal post she made in October on DA

I don't think it should ever be the responsibility of a commissioner to constantly check the artists journal.

Actually, I think it's a bit of a ego trip for any artist to assume all their commissioners are constantly looking at their DA/LJ/FA whatever.

Feb. 13th, 2009 03:00 am (UTC)
Just in case people missed it:


Always two sides to a story :)
Feb. 13th, 2009 03:00 am (UTC)

As an Impartial Observer, it's hard in a situation with two parties involved to see exactly what's gone on if there's no hard evidence being presented. Hard evidence in this case being the actual messages sent and received.

He-said she-said is a bit hard to wade through when both artist and commissioner are a bit peeved!
Feb. 13th, 2009 03:22 am (UTC)
Yeah, seconding this. They both claim the other ignored messages. They both claim the other was unnecessarily rude. They both have offered no actual text or screenshots or anything.

Makes me suspect that this may be one of those cases where both parties handled it poorly.
(no subject) - hobokitten - Feb. 13th, 2009 03:40 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lastres0rt - Feb. 13th, 2009 04:53 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - alaitallon - Feb. 13th, 2009 03:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Feb. 13th, 2009 09:48 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kkitty23 - Feb. 14th, 2009 09:21 am (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 13th, 2009 03:28 am (UTC)
So much bitching and excessive to do over 5 dollars and poor communication.

The ideal situation with this is that rather than resorting to threats in your last DA pm, you would have theoretically posted this on here asking to contact her, and she replied, things were resolved peaceably and civilly. You shouldn't have had to go through so much trouble to track her down, but threatening her reputation and to out her to other communities as a bad artist is always something as a last resort.

Well in any event at least you now know this community is here for you to deal with your future instances of miscommunication in a more professional and civil venue.
Feb. 13th, 2009 05:54 pm (UTC)
I dunno, I think that this suggestion would be appropriate had Zero NOT had kkitty's DA, but being that she does, why should she have to go through a third party to contact someone when she can contact them directly? Clearly, kkitty got the PMs...why not respond? That's the one thing I don't get.

While it's a good suggestion, I don't think it should ever be expected for someone to use a third party to reach someone when primary communication failed.
(no subject) - anjel_kitty - Feb. 13th, 2009 05:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stormslegacy - Feb. 13th, 2009 07:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - anjel_kitty - Feb. 13th, 2009 07:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 13th, 2009 04:47 am (UTC)
So... was it $5 (as you said), or $20 (as kkitty said)? Did you refuse to be refunded or not? Is the issue that you don't have paypal or what?
Feb. 13th, 2009 05:29 am (UTC)
this. i'm totally confused now. o_O
(no subject) - freudian_lisp - Feb. 13th, 2009 06:10 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bladespark - Feb. 13th, 2009 07:33 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Feb. 13th, 2009 03:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 13th, 2009 04:53 am (UTC)
/r/ screenshots/play-by-play.
Feb. 13th, 2009 05:33 am (UTC)
I really don't have the time or energy to try and clear things up in various locations. You can read what I have to say in my own post:


I also clear up some facts in response to other people's comments. Zero, in fact, paid me $20 for a traditional badge. I still have the original receipt from Anthrocon, which I had filed away.

I'd just like to know why someone who's so big on "doing the right thing" would block an artist from contacting them when they're trying to resolve the issue. I requested your Paypal information more than once, but you refused to give it to me until I sent the short, sweet and simple note telling you that if you didn't provide the information I'd assume you didn't want the refund. I already gave my reason for not mailing the money to you. That and I wasn't even sure if it was still valid, which is why I also requested in my last note for you to either provide the Paypal info or verify that the address was still valid. You only just now got back to me, so I can finally send you the money.

So when she says that all she owes you is a commission or a refund, she means that. In other words, she feels no need to offer you timeliness, courteous replies, or in fact, even acknowledgement (unless you threaten her). She doesn't feel that it is her responsibility as the person holding your money, to contact -you-, either, she expects you to keep up with -her-.

Actually what I meant is that when someone is unhappy with an artist's services (relating to our situation, of course), there's a basic principle of how to solve the issue. Either the artist provides the artwork originally agreed upon, or they provide a refund to the commissioner. That's the fair way to deal with it. I wasn't even talking about the rest of the process (before there are actual problems).

Not only has she been this way to me about this commission, but she had all her little friends trolling me on FA when I made a journal about it.

As I recall only two of my friends responded to your journal and they did so on their own accord. One person simply said that calling me a "Rip-Off Artist" was a bit harsh. The other simply shed some light on your twisted version of the truth. I still find it questionable that you deleted all of your journals. It's not like you were being flamed. It was two people...and they were being very mature.

And in response to bladespark's comment, I haven't posted any text/screenshots/etc as I didn't think it was a good idea to post everything upfront. Obviously I posted a shortened version of everything that happened, as I didn't want to have a ginormous entry. I explained that I had everything saved and was more than willing/prepared to defend myself if needed. If it's preferred that I post all of the scans/screenshots/notes, then I will be happy to add that to my post C:
Feb. 13th, 2009 07:22 pm (UTC)
Screencaps, daaaaling!
(no subject) - kkitty23 - Feb. 14th, 2009 09:17 am (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 13th, 2009 10:27 am (UTC)
Since both of them posted, does that nullify the situation :'D? < /smartass>

But seriously, something seems fishy on both sides of the situation, and they both feel like they're just trying to indirectly flame the other.
Feb. 13th, 2009 12:48 pm (UTC)
That's what it seems like to me as well. Little teeny bites at each other, like piranha.
Feb. 13th, 2009 03:03 pm (UTC)
Personally, I don't respond when a commissioner sends me a note with just their info in it, unless they specifically ask me to respond and say I got it. If you were just resending the same note with just your mailing info in it over and over again, that's a little weird. Especially on dA, where you can check to see if someone's read it - so there's no question if they 'got it' or not. If you looked at that little indicator on deviantART and saw that her notes had NOT been read, why would you keep trying to contact through that method? It all seems very fishy to me.

My experiences with KKitty have been nothing but pleasant, and I'm inclined to be suspect of anyone who thinks it's acceptable to use threats to get their way.
Feb. 13th, 2009 11:35 pm (UTC)
Wait, you can SEE if the other person reads your messeges on DA? I didn't think you could.
(no subject) - mialattia - Feb. 14th, 2009 12:40 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - candiedmouth - Feb. 14th, 2009 06:10 am (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 13th, 2009 05:56 pm (UTC)
My vote is:

Let's see the screencaps, as both of you mentioned before that you could provide them.
Feb. 13th, 2009 06:52 pm (UTC)
*agrees* Especially as zerocreature states in a reply on the previous topic that she has posted screencaps already (although I can't see where?), so it shouldn't be hard to duplicate them.
(no subject) - kkitty23 - Feb. 14th, 2009 09:16 am (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 13th, 2009 08:21 pm (UTC)
I am mostly mesmerized by this whole magical change in amount paid, Zero says 5$, kitty says 20$

Soooo... which is it?
Feb. 13th, 2009 10:34 pm (UTC)
Kkitty needs to show the receipt, that should clear it up for everyone!
(no subject) - armaina - Feb. 13th, 2009 11:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kkitty23 - Feb. 14th, 2009 09:16 am (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 14th, 2009 10:19 am (UTC)
Okay so now that KKitty has posted the screen shots of the notes I can see that yes, she did take a long time to respond, yes it is a problem that she did not notify you of the delay sooner. What floors me is the fact that after she sent you the email with the explanation and clearly states that she should give you a refund you reply, not with your email address but with:

"Good customer service should not have to be extorted or gained through threats"
repeated over 40 times. What the heck. This is completely unnecessary behavior, you went from being understandably upset to completely unreasonable. All you had to do was give the paypal address with the first response and you would have been refunded and the issue would have been done with. Also I can't possibly see how KKitty's response to you was 'abusive', upset yes, but not abusive.

After seeing the notes it's pretty clear that while KKitty was late on her work and didn't reply, you most certainly were not the injured 'saint' you made yourself out to be. At least KKitty was aware of her faults in this matter, maybe you should be aware of yours as well.
Feb. 14th, 2009 03:31 pm (UTC)
Okay, I don't know why you're not responding to any of these, but it's not making you look good... yes kkitty should have communicated better, but at this point? SO SHOULD YOU. Either you want this situation resolved or you don't. If you don't, why come here? I'd take this as much as a warning against you as kkitty - I can understand being busy and all, I can't understand refusing to help someone get a refund to you.
Feb. 14th, 2009 05:21 pm (UTC)
I do agree with what others have said. I replied to kkitty in her thread, but I did feel the need to point out that at this point Zero, you are making yourself look very bad. While in this case there was a reasonable slight against you, your posting the PM with it copy-pasted is a little...unstable.

Secondly, harassing her on "the principle of the thing" is very silly and immature, not to mention in poor taste. It was very catty of her to make the thread she did, but really, yours would seem a lot less catty too had you just accepted the damn refund by providing your paypal info or confirming your address, and then calmly posting that you had a bad communication experience here with just the facts if you really felt it necessary.

( 39 comments — Leave a comment )


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