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Possible snatch?

Hello ladies and gentlemen! =) This will be my first post. Since I don't come across theft or bad commissioners much, this is probably going to be rare occurence. However, while browsing the VCL recents I found something the irked me some. I'm not one to get all bitchy about pose theft, because there are only a certain number of poses right? That's a lot like saying a certain species is copyrighted. But there were too many similarities between this piece and my own (really old) picture.

original (please don't laugh, it's very old)
suspect

It appears as though the artist simply reversed the image, perhaps in a printout, traced it, and added his own characteristics. The artists doesn't list an email address, so I can't contact them to inquire. If anyone knows how I can get in contact with this person, it would help a great lot.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
shellypants
Jul. 14th, 2004 06:01 am (UTC)
..It's just a pose. I wouldn't worry about it.
(Deleted comment)
eski
Jul. 14th, 2004 06:11 am (UTC)
I agree. I mainly posted because I was curious if anyone knew how I could contact him. I'd like to ask him personally before making any accusations.
rip_sama
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:01 am (UTC)
I did an overlay, and while the two images don't match in whole to each other, there were parts that did. Especially the stomach/legs.

While I'm all for the "there are only so many ways a human body can move" speech, I *do* believe that if a reference is clear, it is only in respect and politeness towards the artist that you at least mention them very quickly (I myself will link to their site, but that's just me. ^^ ). In this case, I feel your wish to contact the artist is well justified. Except for the hand, the details in the pose are very very similar. While the lines don't match up, the way that they curve and move are strickingly alike.

In the newest upload (which I just happened to notice myself while browzing todays uploads), screamed out at me right away, since I'm familiar with your art.

http://vcl.ctrl-c.liu.se/vcl/Artists/Shadowolf/residual_instincts.jpg

http://vcl.ctrl-c.liu.se/vcl/Artists/Arcturius/Arc-Baiji.jpg

In producing an overlay for comparing, I found that while parts were quite unsimilar, there were main similarities that were quite shocking. Again, with the image flipped.

http://www.soulthesis.com/overlay.jpg

Unfortunately, I tried looking for an email address myself, but could not find one. But I do think it best if contact with him is made...if anything just to clear this up. =)

Have you tried the forums at VCL? Maybe someone there knows how to contact the artist, or maybe the artist will see it himself. ^_^
therios
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:24 am (UTC)
He's not a very intelligent theft. "I know! I'll FLIP THE IMAGE! It's ingenious, no one will ever know!" XD
eski
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:32 am (UTC)
Thank you VERY much, you've done quite a bit of work for my benefit! I didn't even notice that other one. And that's all I really want, to contact this guy and make sure he lists his references. I'll post something up in the forums to see what I can get. Thank you SO so much! ^_^
(Deleted comment)
eski
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:53 am (UTC)
I've sent emails to the two address' I found for him, and if it doesn't get cleared up that way I'll contact Ch'marr. Thank you, I really hope it doesn't come to that though. ^_^
rip_sama
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:39 am (UTC)
I had a brainsurge. XD I checked the "new members assessment" (since he's relatively new, and you have to enter an email address for the forums), I found him, checked his profile, and found one. =)

vitro@dragonspot.net

That is Arcturius's email address as listed with the VCL forums. =)
eski
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:55 am (UTC)
Ah, thank you! I found another one while doing a search for his screen name on the forums, polite questions have been sent to both address'. Hopefully he'll respond to either one, and we can get this cleared up. Thank you so much, you've been tons of help! =^__^=
rip_sama
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:56 am (UTC)
You're very welcomed. =) I'm always glad to help for something like this.
cortezopossum
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:45 am (UTC)
I did an overlay of those first two images and came to pretty much the same conclusion. Based on the number of lines which just don't match up I'm guessing the guy prints out or displays Shadowolf's pictures horizontally flipped, then draws his pictures while looking at Shadow's for reference. i.e. does NOT trace right on top of them.

It's an 'artistically cheap' way to get a pose (or a body structure, as in the second pair) but I don't think it's that big of an 'artistic transgresion' -- even if it were traced it's clear Arcturius is trying to make an entirely different character and is doing his own penwork. I might make contact with him and let him know "It looks like you're using my art as a reference" but I wouldn't get all in his face about it. I don't see this as that big a deal.

I guess I draw the line at someone directly recolorings or modifiying an artist's uploaded image files -- or duplicating (or nearly duplicating) another's created character.
eski
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:57 am (UTC)
Don't worry, I won't get in his face. It's obvious he's not directly plagiarizing my stuff, and god knows I've used other work as a reference in the past. I'd just like him to cite his references if he is using my work.
spirit86
Jul. 14th, 2004 05:10 pm (UTC)
oh definatly! That's nearly exact... even the way and place that the tail curves...
but that's just my opinion... if it were my work, I'd have all ready contacted this person.
eski
Jul. 14th, 2004 10:58 pm (UTC)
well, I didn't know how to contact him before now. Now that an email has been sent, it's up to him to respond.
spirit86
Jul. 15th, 2004 02:13 pm (UTC)
Or contact the site host... seriously, they take care of things really quickly.
eski
Jul. 15th, 2004 06:10 pm (UTC)
I like to handle things more between the other person and I before running to an authority figure. If I went to Ch'marr immediatly, the first thing he'd ask is if I tried to contact the other artist. Luckily I got in contact with this guy though, so no need to drag busy Ch'marr into it all. ^^
spirit86
Jul. 15th, 2004 08:26 pm (UTC)
I'm just saying, if they don't respond you can do that. Sometimes people think it's funny to screw around and think "Well, if I don't respond they can't do anything"
tyreenya
Jul. 15th, 2004 03:02 pm (UTC)
I think in comparing two of your pieces with two of theirs, they are copying you. I did an overlay of the first, and while some people are right, they aren't exact, I still think that this person is plagerizing your work. Even though they are looking off of your work (like some are saying), this person still gave you no credit for a reference. And yes, there are only so many poses that a body can be in, but there are more poses that the hands, arms or tails can be in too, which are very VERY close to your work. I suggest you contact the person and tell them to take it down.

In my opinion, I think they plagarized your work.
mythos_amante
Jul. 23rd, 2004 09:39 pm (UTC)
Hmm
Well, the chinese-styled dragon is gone, but the original one you brought up has this description to it now(I don't know if it was there before or not):

"My brother Sphelx.
Inspired by Shadowolf's 'who_am_i.jpg' picture. You can visit her work here: http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Shadowolf/"
eski
Jul. 24th, 2004 02:15 am (UTC)
Re: Hmm
He and I emailed eachother back and forth a few times, he agreed to cite reference credit. But when he didn't cite reference on the second (the now removed dragon) he wordlessly removed the image without reupload or change in description and never emailed me back.

He may be a little miffed that I really followed through on the reference thing, but in my eyes the problem is solved. He needs to learn to cite references like that.
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )

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