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Hey!

How's it going guys? I wanted to ask about the ethics of some behavior of forum members and how to handle them accordingly.

<lj-cut text="Case One! Style Drama!">
One forum member was offering free story requests, and I liked his writing, so I asked him "Hey, your stuff is really nice, might I be able to trade ya for a some artings". The guy humbly accepts and all is well in the mushroom kingdom. He private messages me to discuss his fursona's appearance and was wondering if I could do it yiffy.

I kindly told him no because I live with my sister, her husband and their kid and most of the times when I'm drawing, they're home and I'm not gonna risk it.

So whatever, he had no problem. I got on my half within the next couple days and finished it pretty quickly. I then host it on imageschack (or tinypic, can't remember) and sent it to the guy. It was his dragon fursona nude (nothing showing) lying on a bed, looking kinda suggestive. But nothing over a PG-13 rating. Anyway, when I give it to the guy, he says something along the lines of "it's good, but too toony". I kept it semi-toony because that's whatI fee l makes me most comfortable drawing and gives the best result.

Needless to say, I was pretty insulted. I asked him if there was anything in particular I could do to change it since I still had the WPB file (yeah, openCanvas user, represent~!) and all he responded with was "Make it less toony". Yep. No "Can you make it look a tad more realistic?" or anything nice like that. That pretty much upset me. He should have known beforehand that I have a toony style as I post my artwork frequently in the sharing art section of the forum. But all of that aside, I told him "Maybe next time if I draw for you I'll keep that in mind, but there's nothing I can do to fix that without COMPLETELY starting over.".

Do you guys know of a better way to handle the situation, or did I do the right thing?
</lj-cut>

<lj-cut text="Case 2, BOTHERBOTHERBOTHER!!!!">

So the friend of the guy I drew for wants in on my art too. Awesome. He offers to make me a cool song on FruityLoops and is nice enough to send me WIP shots. Finishes it in 6 hours. Awesometacular! I was very happy with the result.

Now, the guy's request is a fairly complicated one. With a full background, 2 characters and stuff. I had a couple commissions at the time and lots of IRL errands to run, so I told him I'd try to get it to him by the end of this past weekend.

But whenever I did get online on MSN, he'd bug me for the sketch. One time he pestered me while I was doing an online driver's course for my sister (I was online to tell ask someone an important question). He understands, but every day since, he's been hounding me about it. And on Sunday he asked for it again, when I was in -no- mood to draw because my boyfriend is going to Iraq (he left today) and I was trying to deal with it. Now I'm trying to ake care of other personal matters, so I havent been able to relly touch my tablet.

I'm still in a kind of shitty mood about my boyfriend leaving, but in case this guy hounds me again, how should I handle it? (it hasn't been a week yet and he wants a fully rendered drawing with 2 characters and a bg)
</lj-cut>
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Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
fyremane
Sep. 14th, 2008 11:31 pm (UTC)
you cuts are broken
kerstin_orion
Sep. 14th, 2008 11:41 pm (UTC)
Looks like you need an '>' at the end of the text starting the second cut. :) Please fix when you get a chance.
fatkraken
Sep. 14th, 2008 11:51 pm (UTC)
the first guy was blunt, but nothing worse than that. A lot of people are very brief and blunt over IM, I wouldn't get too upset about it. As for the trade, I would be as polite as possible, say something along the lines of "I'm afraid I can't make this piece significantly less toony, it's already past the stage where I can change the overall look. In any case, I only draw semi toony art, I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear efore the trade but I assumed you'd seen my posts on the forum and understood what I could do"

second guy, you told him you'd have it done by the end of the weekend, and at the end of the weekend, he asked if you'd got it done. obviously your circumstances aren't ideal, and he is being rather pushy, but he's not asking for anything you didn't already tell him you'd do. Just do the rough sketch, then when he comes on you'll have SOMETHING. Even just a 15 second thumbnail to give him an idea of the rough layout
limeykat
Sep. 14th, 2008 11:53 pm (UTC)
My suggestion? Stop using IM for your transactions, and let people know ahead of time that your paid customers come first so there could be a delay on trades.
immortalpanda
Sep. 15th, 2008 03:00 am (UTC)
gonna second this. if you feel you absolutely must talk to your commissioners through IM, set up an alternate account so you can turn those on and off when needed.

sounds like you need to politely remind this guy you are only human, and ask him NOT to contact you further through IM's then block him*.

If this was a normal commission situation other than a trade, I would have told you to just refund the guy.

*finish your half of the trade though, so you avoid ending up here.

Edited at 2008-09-15 03:01 am (UTC)
frazzled_niya
Sep. 15th, 2008 05:11 am (UTC)
ooo~ Sage like advice ^^.b
laneypanda
Sep. 15th, 2008 12:21 am (UTC)
Nothing to do with the post, but I noticed your music choice! Whoo! Another Diru fan! \m/
spiffystuff
Sep. 15th, 2008 12:44 am (UTC)
Sorry buuutttt... why is this an artists_beware post? I understand being mildly peeved over these things; MILDLY; but really? Just do what you're comfortable with, fulfill your promises or work out compromises, and ignore the occasional mild rudeness the internet can inspire.
kerstin_orion
Sep. 15th, 2008 02:03 am (UTC)
It's a post because someone was requesting advice. If we can give advice to help someone avoid an actual 'beware of so-and-so', isn't that worth it?
anjel_kitty
Sep. 15th, 2008 02:17 am (UTC)
Well considering these are both trades, and no monetary vaule was exchanges, I mean its kind of rude to do, but you could jsut stop responding to either one of them. Its not like you are getting robbed or really robbing the guy for any money.

If money was involved it be different, but if these people are annoying and pissing you off and there isn't money involved, you can just ignore them.
spiffystuff
Sep. 15th, 2008 04:18 am (UTC)
I disagree... we don't like it if an artist doesn't get compensated for their time. Just because these others aren't visual artists, doesn't mean they don't deserve to get the agreed compensation for their work.

However, the first guy already got what was agreed on, and I don't see that the OP SHOULD do more. If they want to, fine, but their obligation there is done.
It IS okay to ignore the second guy for a few days. Might want to temp block on IM, but don't put it off too long.
thaily
Sep. 15th, 2008 08:10 am (UTC)
Time is money.
lilenth
Sep. 15th, 2008 10:30 am (UTC)

Money evolved from a barter system. All money is, is payment for services in a form which can be traded with anyone.

Therefore a services trade STILL has monetary value. It's not okay to flake out on a trade especially not if the other side has done their side. Mutually agreeing to drop a trade when neither have done their side is one thing but accepting services then refusing to give the services offered is just as bad as not paying an artist for a commission.
anjel_kitty
Sep. 15th, 2008 01:20 pm (UTC)
Well hell if that was the case in this community, let me break out my "people who screwed me over in trades" list.
lilenth
Sep. 15th, 2008 01:23 pm (UTC)

Go right ahead. Breaking a trade agreement to trade services for services is not really different to breaking a commission agreement to trade money for services.
anjel_kitty
Sep. 15th, 2008 01:28 pm (UTC)
No thanks. I have better things to do with my time than deal with all the epic drama that would result. I don't need these trades to pay my bills or feed myself.


If people start posting about all their "trades gone bad" I can see this community becoming dramachan fodder more than it is already.


lilenth
Sep. 15th, 2008 01:32 pm (UTC)

There has been trades gone bad posts in the past and oddly enough those haven't dissolved into drama.

The important thing is that work is worth money so if someone's doing the work and not getting their promised return whether it be goods, services or money, it's a breech of contract.
thaily
Sep. 15th, 2008 04:45 pm (UTC)
If someone doesn't complete their trade, who says they'll complete a commission?

I've been stiffed in art trades before and most of those bums also turned out to be terrible when it came to paid art.

That said, paying for art with art is still paying for art and entitles one to a sliver of consideration.
lilenth
Sep. 15th, 2008 05:16 pm (UTC)

IAWTC. Indeed if someone can't be relied on to complete a trade, why would they be reliable just because the payment/method of payment is different for a commission?
lilenth
Sep. 15th, 2008 01:25 pm (UTC)

First one you handled just fine.

Second one? You should just do his art. He's already finished his half and while his pestering is rude, it's no excuse to mess him around on it. Keep your msn offline for a few days if that's what it requires.

Really shitty mood or not, you need to uphold your end of the bargain whether you're trading art for money or for services.
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )

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