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Money forcefully withheld

Alright so initially, I made an agreement with http://www.furaffinity.net/user/achondrite/ to spend $450 on a series of sketched comic pages, and an attitional $450 to ink them. Her policy, as stated by her LJ, is to accept full payment after the sketches were approved, which had not yet been done. She came to me a month or two later stating that she didn't like the subject material that I requested of her. After a debate in regards to working out a compensation commission, I made the comment that I was not personally pleased with her services. From there, she said that she was just going to do the sketches and refund me $400, instead of $450, and end the deal there. She also mentioned that she would be getting $300 by Friday, and a final check from her work next week. That friday, when I inquired about the other $50, thus bringing the sum up to $450, she said to consider that a fee for the thumbnails she did for proofing purposes ( which was not part of the agreement ). Also, that Friday she refunded $300 CAD, which is $274.86 USD. When I told her that CAD does not equal to USD and I expected the difference, she flat out refused to cooperate. Not only that, but she also states that it's going to be longer than a week, contrary to what she told me, to refund the rest of the money. She is also denying me my full, paid commission. From there, she blocked me, and here we are. She won't even send me the pages she's already done.

So long story short. I spent $675 just for her to shaft me.

I hope to bring this issue to the attention of her future commissioners with the hopes that she doesn't do the same thing to them.

Pics as proof
Her operational policies and procedures - http://b.imagehost.org/0746/payment2.jpg
Log of the agreement to do the 11 pages of sketches and $400 return for not doing inks - http://b.imagehost.org/0129/4_6.jpg
Her stating that she's charging me for thumbnails - http://b.imagehost.org/0666/6_18.jpg
Her denying me the full $400 return - http://b.imagehost.org/0189/3_11.jpg
Her denying me my commission - http://b.imagehost.org/0779/5_6.jpg

Edit: Whole chat logs, instead of the abridged versions

Log of her stating she has an issue with the commission and the agreement to do a substitute - http://b.imagehost.org/0185/3_5.jpg
Log of the agreement to scrap the substitute and do the orignal 11 pages and $400 return - http://b.imagehost.org/0978/1_1.jpg
Log of me informing her that if she doesn't want to remedy her mistake that I would inform the Artist Beware community - http://b.imagehost.org/0135/2_11.jpg


Edit2:

Uploaded a video scrolling through the chat logs if you feel that still images are too easy to edit

http://www.viddler.com/explore/Lavans/videos/3/

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 87 comments — Leave a comment )
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starcharmer
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:49 am (UTC)
You didn't even address a few of the things Achondrite mentioned which would deter any artist from accepting a commission from you.

Not to mention you don't have the most awesome track record even before this incident.
kora_atlass
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:59 am (UTC)
Addressed those issues in below post.

The only track record I have that's negative was with Leucrottia/Paka, which was nothing more than a he said she said confrontation.

Seems to me this is one big popularity contest. You guys hammered me asking for proof last time and now when I'm giving it to you, you guys don't listen.
(no subject) - starcharmer - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:08 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - starcharmer - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:09 am (UTC) - Expand
lilenth
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:53 am (UTC)

Sorry, I don't believe you. We've heard several complaints about you, always the same issue. So yeah sorry but not buying it.
kora_atlass
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:59 am (UTC)
Last time the artist wasn't paid. Anchondrite was
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:06 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:17 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:23 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - achondrite - Sep. 1st, 2008 03:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Sep. 1st, 2008 12:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 06:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:18 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - achondrite - Sep. 1st, 2008 03:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
keymonster
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:55 am (UTC)
I think i am going to side with the person you commissioned on this. I think you are just posting this to spite. And i agree with unsolvedsuicide, your track record isnt that good.
kora_atlass
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:57 am (UTC)
The only track record I have that's negative was with Leucrottia/Paka, which was nothing more than a he said she said confrontation.

Seems to me this is one big popularity contest. You guys hammered me asking for proof last time and now when I'm giving it to you, you guys don't listen.
(no subject) - keymonster - Sep. 1st, 2008 06:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 06:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - laneypanda - Sep. 1st, 2008 01:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
kora_atlass
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:55 am (UTC)
Posted the entry before proofing it. Also made a comment in Achondrite's AB post here http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/201811.html?thread=5193299#t5193299 which I copy pasted here.

Actually the agreement was 11 pages, Achondrite, not 8. Also, you managed to get the first 2.5 sketches ( which were lacking in detail and environment ) done within a weeks time but I haven't seen any updates since then. And yes, I did say it was alright for you to take as much time as you needed. When you came to me saying you didn't want to do the commission and offered to do something else, I agreed and you accepted my request without problem. Though when I made the comment that I don't understand why we couldn't just scrap the commission all together, you blew up and said you were going to go back to the original commission and just do the rest of the sketches. From there, I figured that since you were only going to do half the job, that I should get half the money back and brought that to your attention. You said no, $400 is the max. You sent me $300 CAD ( which is roughly $275 ) that same day, I asked that you remedy the error and pay $125 instead of $100. You said that you weren't going to correct the error you made in sending me the wrong sum of money and just go ahead and send whatever you please. This where I drew the line and ousted you.

Don't take my word for it, let my chat logs do the talking.

Her operational policies and procedures - http://b.imagehost.org/0746/payment2.jpg
Log of her stating she has an issue with the commission and the agreement to do a substitute - http://b.imagehost.org/0185/3_5.jpg
Log of the agreement to scrap the substitute and do the orignal 11 pages and $400 return - http://b.imagehost.org/0978/1_1.jpg
Her denying me the full $400 return even after she sent the wrong currency - http://b.imagehost.org/0189/3_11.jpg
Log of me informing her that if she doesn't want to remedy her mistake that I would inform the Artist Beware community - http://b.imagehost.org/0135/2_11.jpg
Her denying me my commission - http://b.imagehost.org/0779/5_6.jpg

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]kora_atlass
2008-09-01 06:39 am UTC (link) DeleteTrack This

Oh and also, I banned you from my FA journal because I didn't want you making accusations without means of backing them up and escalating the issue further than what it already was. I never banned your friends, and I never asked my friends to rise to my defense. They did that on their own.
alexds1
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:56 am (UTC)
Agreed with the other posters, also Achondrite mentioned that you edited some of the images that you'd used as proof, which disinclines me to believe you...
kora_atlass
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:58 am (UTC)
No, she claims I left out bits of the chat logs. If you look at the links above and compare them with the links in my report, you'll not only see they match up but give the whole story as well.
bladespark
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:56 am (UTC)
Wait... you agreed to $450 for "a series of inked comic pages" and an additional $450 "to ink them?" Please get your story straight.
kora_atlass
Sep. 1st, 2008 06:57 am (UTC)
$450 for 11 sketches and an additional $450 to ink them.
(no subject) - bladespark - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bladespark - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:10 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - white_tean - Sep. 1st, 2008 11:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 1st, 2008 10:11 am (UTC) - Expand
raggedtyger
Sep. 1st, 2008 07:34 am (UTC)
Nice try, but I don't think you're fooling anyone.
kora_atlass
Sep. 1st, 2008 07:39 am (UTC)
Uploaded a video scrolling through the chat logs if you feel that still images are too easy to edit

http://www.viddler.com/explore/Lavans/videos/3/
the_lest
Sep. 1st, 2008 10:08 am (UTC)
Just a question, and i'm not taking sides here. (Personally I feel you both are at fault, but we'll leave my opinion out of the rest of this comment.)

Why do you save so many chats? Or if you don't save many, then why these particular ones? Why are you in such a hurry to post "proof" in the form of chats? And for others to read the chats? I can understand wanting to keep your own records in order, but it seems to me like perhaps you store these logs up because you anticipate there will be issues, disagreements, drama, and an opportunity to get people on your side? I'm not making an accusation here, but I am curious.

You could have posted here, on this community, stated the facts, and not bothered with the chats... left them on the side until someone requested to see them. But you seem eager to "proove" something. That's something people often do when they're afraid they might be wrong and need justification of their actions...

I find that point interesting, is all.
(no subject) - westly_roanoke - Sep. 1st, 2008 01:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 1st, 2008 01:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - westly_roanoke - Sep. 1st, 2008 02:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 1st, 2008 02:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - westly_roanoke - Sep. 1st, 2008 02:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 1st, 2008 02:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - westly_roanoke - Sep. 1st, 2008 03:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thrivis - Sep. 2nd, 2008 12:47 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 3rd, 2008 01:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 3rd, 2008 01:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 3rd, 2008 01:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 3rd, 2008 02:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 3rd, 2008 02:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
rainbow_roo
Sep. 1st, 2008 07:45 am (UTC)
You're doing more harm then good by posting up an entry of your own shortly after someone made an entry about you. At most, you should leave/have left it at your response in their entry. By making your own, it just seems like you want to try and do to them what you perceive they have done to you.

Regardless of which side is more in the right or in the wrong - this entry and all the responses you are making is not helping you look good. Just an observation from a third party.
thrivis
Sep. 1st, 2008 07:49 am (UTC)
I think the entries were approved at generally the same time... so it's possible neither knew the other posted until they were both approved today.
(no subject) - starcharmer - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 1st, 2008 10:53 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rainbow_roo - Sep. 1st, 2008 11:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Sep. 1st, 2008 11:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - white_tean - Sep. 1st, 2008 11:47 am (UTC) - Expand
theblackdragon
Sep. 1st, 2008 08:28 am (UTC)
you were certainly no saint, but neither was she. if she's not going to refund you more than 400 (hopefully US) dollars, i hope she'll at least be persuaded to get to you the art you've rightfully paid for. whether you were an impatient, annoying jerk about the whole thing or not, it still doesn't mean you deserve to be out $500 over a fit of pique.
colonelinfrared
Sep. 1st, 2008 08:42 am (UTC)
I don't really think think this post was necessary, since it just kind of seems like you're playing a childish game of 'She posted something baaad about me so I'm going to get that dirty whore back!' That's just really immature. Now, I might be reading this all wrong... But you want a full refund when she already did some of the sketches? I don't see why you think you deserve a full refund when she already did some of the commission, because it makes you look like you're trying to con people into free art.

:/
kora_atlass
Sep. 1st, 2008 08:44 am (UTC)
Actually no, I just want my 11 sketched pages and $400 back like promised. I would appreciate it if she went ahead and refunded the whole $450 for the inks which she doesn't want to do, but I won't hold that against her.
hobokitten
Sep. 1st, 2008 09:26 am (UTC)
Really, I have to side with Achondrite.
You've been posted here before, using relatively the same sort of tactics, and the fact that you sent trolls after them?
Not good.
I have a feeling this is just spite post, or an attempt at 'Maybe if I try and post first, they will be more inclined to believe me.'
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(no subject) - achondrite - Sep. 1st, 2008 03:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 1st, 2008 03:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - achondrite - Sep. 2nd, 2008 02:07 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kora_atlass - Sep. 2nd, 2008 02:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Sep. 1st, 2008 07:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: The dragging had good reason. - spiffystuff - Sep. 1st, 2008 08:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 1st, 2008 10:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - miriafox - Sep. 2nd, 2008 12:27 am (UTC) - Expand
the_lest
Sep. 1st, 2008 10:39 am (UTC)
I think people are being a little unfair to kora_atlass here. It seems people are eager to jump on him because of his track record (which I don't know much about, let me add.) Well, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. People can change their ways. I've been unprofessional with commissions in the past, (thankfully nothing serious but still..) and I've seen the errors of my ways.

There's fault on both sides of this one, it seems. Achondrite didnt refund the agreed amount because she felt the need to make an extra charge that was not agreed at the outset. At the same time, kora_atlass has shown behaiviour that could be called harrassing, and if not harrassing it is certainly very annoying.

Possibly kora_atlass is unaware of how his behaiviour affects the situation, so i'm writing it out plain for you to read.

. Asking personal questions about what the artist used the money for is very rude and intrusive. That's their business.

. Achondrite clearly has money issues for whatever her own personal and private reasons, and is struggling to make the refund. On the one hand this is her own fault and nobody else's. On the other, I can sympathise as I've been in similar situations myself. Harrassing someone for money they don't have - even if they owe it to you - when they have bills to pay, is not pleasant and will make them feel LESS inclined to pay you. I notice that when she tried to come to an agreement over the amount to be refunded, you didn't have a single thank you to say but were instantly on her back about it.

Being polite costs nothing but reaps rewards. If I were in your situation, I would have said to her "Thanks for the $300. I would like the rest of the money refunded too. If you can't afford it now, perhaps we can work something out." Rather than just harrassing her about it. Of course you aren't obliged to be nice to people, but you will usually get a better result if you do.

. Achondrite was not very professional. IMO she should have blocked kora_atlass early on, and transferred all communication to email - where you have more time to think before you type, and tempers are not lost so easily. Then she could lay out the situation in plain words: "I will send you $300 now, I will send you $50 next week" or whatever.

. Making threats to report her to a community is not a way to scare someone into giving you money. If she doesn't HAVE money she can't magic it up out of nowhere. If her electricity company is making similar threats about cutting off her supply, guess which one is going to be her priority.

PS. I apologise if you are female, kora_atlass, I couldn't find a gender on your page and don't like typing "they" so I just made a guess XD

Edited at 2008-09-01 10:41 am (UTC)
thrivis
Sep. 2nd, 2008 12:34 am (UTC)
This. I was thinking of something to say, but you said it better than I could have. ^^;
(no subject) - the_lest - Sep. 3rd, 2008 01:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
plushabilities
Sep. 1st, 2008 12:08 pm (UTC)
I was here for the situation that happened with Paka. I also read Achondra's post on you. And I have to say, both seem too similar for my liking.

I can't even force myself to believe a word you've typed. The logs and images look almost scripted, like you were intending to cause drama from the start. From my vantage point, you were planning on this the entire time and, knowing that Acho would probably post here or to a similar community, you wanted something to 'prove' your innocence and set everyone against her.

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