January 5th, 2012

holiday, xmas

General Advice Post: Declining a Commission and/or a Trade

Be it their reputation, their attitude or just the overall theme of what they want you to draw for them - we as artists and people have the right to say 'no' to offers placed upon our plates.

The question is, how does one say 'no' in such a way that it is purely professional and has that weight of finality to it that doesn't allow for weasel room. Lets figure out the best way to create a standard of etiquette for declining inquiries we don't want to handle!

I'm opening the floor to the community on this. Please feel free to advise or suggest ways to professionally bow out of offers for commissions or trades.

If you recall someone making a post or a comment regarding this in the past, and felt it was a big help to you; please link to it for everyone's reference!
  • mozz1

I might have been scammed

I have reason to believe I was scammed by an artist on Furaffinity

It happened about year ago, I met with an artist online who was just starting out, but seemed promising. Me and him established a good friendship, and coincidentally we only live maybe 30 minutes away from each other. So we decided to meet up at a restaurant. We had a great time, and left on a really positive note. But before we left, I gave him 20 dollars cash for a color and ink commission.

The artist in question is named Furinkazan, and here is his FA page: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/furinkazan/

Shortly after me and Furinkazan met in person, he began talking to me less and less on MSN, until he decided to eventually block me for reasons unknown. And for months, I could not get in touch with him. I tried sending him only a few PM's through FA just to see if he was still active, which he did not respond to. But I knew he was active, as he was favoriting others works, and occasionally posting his own. At that point I made a very grave mistake which I wholeheartedly regret doing and posted on Furinkazan's shout box something along the lines of: "Thanks for stealing 20 bucks from me"

That shout was immediately deleted by him, and he left a shout on my page, marked a year ago, which you can see here: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mozz/ It says: "I never said I wouldn't finish your commission, so don't accuse me of stealing in a public arena when I've stolen nothing from you. If you have something to say, note me."

Even though it was a bad idea, I figured now he was finally going to talk to me, I PM'ed him back, and the conversation is as follows:

http://qrf.servequake.com/~orl/misc/pm1.png

So it would appear, it all worked out in the end. Well not quite. Even though we made up, I still never got any commission from him, but I did wish him happy holidays:

http://qrf.servequake.com/~orl/misc/pm2.png

We then clarified what I wanted my commission to be:

http://qrf.servequake.com/~orl/misc/pm3.png

And that was the last time we talked. He still blocked me from MSN, but he promised me that he was going to do the commission. A half a year passes, and still no commission from him. However I'm still being patient, and when his birthday comes around, I leave a shout on his page wishing him a happy birthday. He leaves a shout back on my page, which is still there that says: "Thanks! I'll have your stuff done soon, sorry it's taken so long."

What I did next might have probably put him over the edge, and it was also something stupid I did that I regret doing. Last month on September 5th, I left a shout on his page saying "Happy one year anniversary that I still haven't got my commission! :D" Well that shout was quickly deleted, my name was removed from his owed commissions list, and I was blocked from his page entirely. I was not trying to start drama, I was merely stating that its been a year now, and I still don't have my commission. I completely went about it the wrong way

So now a month later. At this point, I don't care if I don't get my commission, or if I don't get a refund, I just want the community to know that Furinkazan is a scam artist, and to not make the same mistake I did. I tried contacting several different FA administrators, but they all ignored me. Finally as my last step, I made a thread on the FA forums, and a few civil people there redirected me to Arists_beware, since it is quite clear from that thread, that they do not care that there is a scam artist still at large, and that I am the one at fault somehow, that I was harassing him. Here is a link to the thread in question: http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/108723-Scam-artist-on-FA

Well apparently from the thread the issue was resolved, at least for the moment. After much consideration, I gave furinkazan my home address so he can send the refund through the mail, as shown in this PM: http://qrf.servequake.com/~orl/misc/pm4.png
 Well it has been three months later, and I still have yet to receive that refund, which I kind of expected I wasn't going to receive.

I admit completely, that there were moments where I should have handled the situation much more appropriately, and not have said some of the things I said. Unfortunately, I cannot take what I said back, but I did apologize for what I said, and understand it was wrong to do so. But I still feel that does not excuse the fact that it has been a year and a half that I paid this artist for a simple piece of artwork that I will never receive, plus the fact he probably has no plans on refunding my commission money.
  • kazufox

(no subject)

Notice:
The nature of this game project is classified as a RoR (Run or Rape) game and is of adult nature.  Information may also be of adult nature.  Viewer discretion is advised.

Who:
James Taylor aka Toonpimp.  Also goes by the aliases of Bimson and Hobartstarr.  Is in charge of Immoral Enterprise which specifies in adult games or animations.

Where:
http://www.toonchamp.com
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/bimson
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/hobartstarr
http://hobartstarr.newgrounds.com

What:
The transaction being an 8-bit 2D game called Pixelforce.

When:
January 2008 - January 2012

Proof:
[1] screen cap of Toonpimp/Bimson wanting to work on first game project
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/60696270.png
[2] chat logs providing a lot of evidence of his actions
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/rsPIc
[3] last chat log before discontinuing
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/ksQDf
[4] screen cap of Toonpimp’s note from forum
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/26118743.png
[5] chat log on notification of releasing him
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/rsRij
[6] screen cap of Toonpimp’s reason for not giving refund to people that paid
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/24924037.png

Explain:
This started with the history of the first game in 2008, simply 6-bit Pixelforce.  When Toonpimp first found some of my sprites, he showed interest and wanted to make an adult game of it as of January 26, 2008[1].  I agreed to it and we started work on the game that was 6-bit Pixelforce.  However, during halfway in on his part, he changes his mind and decides to make it an average 2D sidescroll shooter.  The result of it: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1290130 which was a poorly put together small flash game completed on May 10, 2008.

But because people were interested in my sprites that weren't used, I decided to start work on another game project.  I did bring this up with Toonpimp, however, he outright refused unless paid.  So I began a character auction primarily on here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/728773 on May 5, 2009.  I did request of him to begin work on a demo of the game, but he was lazy about this.  The demo was rushed and sloppily done with mismatched animations and several glitches.  The worst part was that the game was unable to run on other computers[2].  

The total he was financed for this project was a little over $390.  But when I let him go, I asked for only $150 but is refusing because ‘I kept him waiting for two years’ and ‘wasted his time.’  Evidence is in the chat logs file in parts discussing money.  All of this being discussed through the chats as when his paypal was deleted, all records of transactions with him were as well[2].

During this time working on Pixelforce, the chat logs reveal quite a bit of disturbing information that includes sexual harassment.  He tries in many chats requests for naked pictures of me in order to do more work into the game.  For a while, I thought he was joking although he has in time made evident he was serious.  Every time I did bring up this game, he would often go on a rampage, even saying the game should fail.  He goes as far to deny being paid as one of his Paypal accounts was deleted, because Paypal does not support porn based businesses[2].

While working on this project, I was given the chance to promote my game on his forum where he made evident his disinterest with this game and for a while people on his forum were not in support of my game because of that.  I did have a sub-forum for my project as a new way of organizing the new games being developed all at once.  When I let people know that I had let Toonpimp go, he retaliated by not only locking my sub-forum, but deleted it and noted me to leave his forum[4].

Before firing Toonpimp, I decided on a more tactful method that would not be too insulting…twice[5].  He claims that it was because of him just for his name and forum he was making the money I attained for this project and therefore refused to give a refund[3].  I gave him plenty of chances to try and turn things around, yet he only spat in my face telling me to get lost.

I have been contacting everyone who has donated for this game and let them know of what has occurred so they can contact him about getting their money back.  He is refusing and claiming to produce ‘his own version’ of the game[6].

tl;dr
Toonpimp is a programmer that doesn’t give people what they pay for.  If he doesn’t like a project, he charges extra, even when already commissioned and is refusing to give a refund after being fired and booted me off his forums.  Only continuing to work to not give a refund.  He gets angry easily when I bring the game up.  Sexual harassment trying to solicit to doing more work as payment to get naked pictures.  Does not keep in touch about project or updates unless threatened and does little work.

Update Edit 03/15/12
Toonpimp and I had come to an agreement.  That being he would give a partial refund on the conditions that I don't send people after him about a refund, leave his forum, and say nothing of him.  I agreed and decided to wait.  I did wait until February to contact him again for a refund, but he told me to simply leave him alone and he'd send the money when he gets it.

I waited another month, and now I find he's blocked me on FA, deleted my account on his forum, and also telling other people that he won't do anything to pay up thus placing him under theft which apparently has happened multiple times in his career.  Ironically enough, one of his reasons for blocking me was because of my posting our chat logs after I had fired him saying it was violating privacy, yet he fails to acknowledge the fact he showed someone that disliked him the game while under development and the guy threatened to release it as I mentioned in my article above.  Or how he only intended to give me 'tools' to do this myself and him not to complete it, yet also said he planned on finishing the game himself even after I fired him, which almost landed an article of him under Artist Theft.

Here's the 3 PMs, the first two from him and the third being from a contributor that contacted him since TP had me blocked.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/pmsj.png/

I'll keep updated with more evidence in time.
Fall by Grandioze

Changing community appearance

Due to issues on some computers with displaying the new S1 comment layout, as well as eyestrain and visibility issues, we have had to switch the community to the S2 style for the comments. This means that the comments page will now look very similar to the community page.

We are in the process of finding a layout that both works with our setup and is easier on the eyes. You may notice A_B changing appearance as we adjust things, so please bear with us.

Feel free to give us feedback on the changes (please keep it to this post or to PMs and email). We will try to take suggestions into consideration, but we are somewhat limited by the layout options we need for the community.

Thank you all for your patience!