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First off this is my first post in AB, and I hope it is not too off-topic, I'm not reporting on anyone, instead I would like to open a discussion on the IMPACT of previous reports on clientèle, artists & people who have considered taking out commissions with someone.

The whole Pogoroo thing, and countless other artists mentioned here as being unreliable - does anyone else see these incidents/persons as giving a bad name to, hurting the reputation of and possibly taking away business from ALL artists offering commissions? (Speaking within the community of course)

I mean - is such "bad" artist behavior it rampant? No. Should we judge only by what is reported here? No. But does it factor in? I believe - Yes. And I worry that all this bad behavior might be turning away some possible clients. That is my belief though, and I'd like to hear yours AND possible solutions.

Would I sound like I'm trying to hard to defend myself (even though I've never stood up a client) if I were to post client reviews (basically, a client gives me a review of services rendered and I post it - negative or positive - sort of like those ebay points - oh that would be a great website, too bad I can't program worth a diddle...if someone wants to I have ideas)

I just don't like to hear how some people who really want to commission people end up feeling uneasy about it because of negative past experiences, or hearing about them from others.

In short - What can the "good" artists do to protect themselves from the backlash caused by others?

(P.S. I don't mean to sound paranoid or anything, its just a concern - sorry if this is inappropriate as a topic or already been address.)
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Comments

( 35 comments — Leave a comment )
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eski
Jul. 6th, 2008 07:27 pm (UTC)
So far, I've never had anyone blatantly NOT commission me because they've heard bad stories about other artists who don't own up to what they are supposed to do. But I can see where the concern comes from. I don't think anything can really be done about influencing a single person or group of people' decisions to commission an artist (or not). I do think that when you advertise for commissions, giving examples of what you've done is good not only to show off your skills, but to show others have reliably commissioned you for good work. Staying in communication, being honest and fair with clients... all the "good artist" kind of stuff! ^_~

growing_rose
Jul. 6th, 2008 09:44 pm (UTC)
I was quite happy with the commission I got from you. (I got the dragon to help you out with getting your Venom hoodie.) And even though you forgot about me, I was plenty happy with the outcome. If you had even just given me the pencil sketch I would've been happy, but you were awesome enough to throw in free inking on top because of it. ;D

(no subject) - eski - Jul. 7th, 2008 01:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - growing_rose - Jul. 7th, 2008 02:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - alcyione - Jul. 6th, 2008 10:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eski - Jul. 7th, 2008 01:13 am (UTC) - Expand
lilenth
Jul. 6th, 2008 07:32 pm (UTC)

Generally no matter what business you're in there are some people who are going to be unreliable, just as builders have cowboys and financial advisors have con men there are people who are dishonest in any profession.

Realistically, anyone silly enough to think that dishonest people make the whole group bad is probably not someone I want commissioning me anyway. There's bad commissioners but nobody with any sense assumes all commissioners are bad. The few who do usually lose business over it.

In short what good artists can do to protect themselves from backlash is to build up a solid reputation for being good.
starcharmer
Jul. 6th, 2008 08:04 pm (UTC)
Realistically, anyone silly enough to think that dishonest people make the whole group bad is probably not someone I want commissioning me anyway.

That is a very good point. I totally agree with that.
(no subject) - thrivis - Jul. 7th, 2008 12:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
dinogrrl
Jul. 6th, 2008 07:33 pm (UTC)
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to post client reviews--like you mentioned, eBay does that. It can tell you a lot about a person, but at the same time, some people get really wrapped up in ONLY such reviews and create a self-image around that, or will only see the artist as the sum of their reviews.

Really, the only way to guard yourself from the backlash is to stay professional, courteous, and respectful of your clients and colleagues. It takes much longer to build a reputation as a good artist than a bad one, but it's so much more worth it in the end.
gas_mask_dragon
Jul. 6th, 2008 07:37 pm (UTC)
I personally wouldn't want to commission someone who has stood up two or more clients, because it wouldn't be fair to the people who didn't get their commissions done in the first place. It's wrong of an artist to skip out on someone after payment and no amount of justifying will tell me otherwise.
bladespark
Jul. 6th, 2008 07:48 pm (UTC)
Far as I'm concerned it's a non-issue. A client's timidity and reluctance to trust has as much to do with their own nature as it has to do with any stories they've heard. I'd much prefer to have negative reports of people who are deserving of such than have nothing but happy rainbows and puppies for all artists.

And as has been said, once you have a good reputation, it's much harder for any negativity to harm your business. (Heck, look at Rose Quoll. She turned into an outright scammer at the end, and yet it took years for most people to finally believe it, because for so long she /had/ been a very reliable and trustworthy person. So if you have a good reputation and you don't scam people, I don't see there being much that can hurt you.)
starcharmer
Jul. 6th, 2008 08:01 pm (UTC)
Actually, I think the artist feedback would be a good thing. I've been thinking about making a post on my commissions journal [runswithpencils] for that purpose, but haven't gotten around to it, yet.

And I'm not really sure about the question you posed. This is a very interesting topic to me, though, so I'll be sure to check back and read all the comments!
jooki
Jul. 6th, 2008 08:10 pm (UTC)
I've never had my sales hurt because of others getting bad press. I get bugged to open more commissions. I don't know why though O.@. I feel a beware community is needed. Like a consumers report for artists. The comments are a better review than the opening posts. It also helps warn good artists about taking the bad commissioners as well. Lord knows I wish I got a warning against a few I've had.... A bad commissioner can hurt a good artists sales.
leahtaur
Jul. 6th, 2008 08:37 pm (UTC)
"I feel a beware community is needed. Like a consumers report for artists."

Hmmm... something similar to the very community you're posting in? ;)
(no subject) - jooki - Jul. 6th, 2008 10:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
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casteddreams
Jul. 6th, 2008 08:15 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - hyarmi_records - Jul. 6th, 2008 08:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Jul. 6th, 2008 11:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kerstin_orion - Jul. 7th, 2008 02:17 am (UTC) - Expand
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valentinecrow
Jul. 6th, 2008 11:21 pm (UTC)
sounds like an excellent idea, I have asked for feedback from clients before (just to see what I could improve upon) but what you do is great :)
beetlecat
Jul. 6th, 2008 08:45 pm (UTC)
does anyone else see these incidents/persons as giving a bad name to, hurting the reputation of and possibly taking away business from ALL artists offering commissions?

No. My reputation is my own. Just because I offer the same medium of art as people who accept money and then don't deliver does not mean that people think I'm a rotten scammer as well. Of anything, it makes me look even better and more professional.

if I were to post client reviews (basically, a client gives me a review of services rendered and I post it

Those are called customer testimonials and it is extremely common for business to post them. I do all the time - I plan to put a particular nice on on my new business cards. It adds the 'pack' mentality where people are more likely to buy something if other people have bought it previously.

Would I sound like I'm trying to hard to defend myself (even though I've never stood up a client) if I were to post client reviews (basically, a client gives me a review of services rendered and I post it - negative or positive

Just a quick note. It's not somehow dirty or dishonest to only spread around good reviews and good work and to try keep the bad work and bad review a little closer to chest. Art is a business and no professional business is going to shout out that 'so and so had a problem with my work but I'll try to do better next time.' They just shut up about it and let the matter die.

I guess my point is that if you get a bad review, do everything you can to make the customer happy and then leave it be. Even the most bestest artist in the world will not have 100% positive comments from customers. But there's no reason to try to 'justify' it by explaining it publicly.
neolucky
Jul. 6th, 2008 09:02 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure about what you're asking here - Bad circumstances are reported here to warn others. If something good happened (Which there are some amazingly good people out there!) then...generally there's nothing to warn about and thus everyones happy on all sides.

I don't think having bad reputations brought up here are really impacting people as a whole to commission others. Heck even some of the god-awful people talked about here STILL get commissions! So all one can do as a freelance artist, is continue to be prompt, professional and friendly =) And if someone DOES write a bad review, and they're in the wrong? Simply defend yourself in an honest way. Admit when you're wrong, take the hit, and continue on.

Honesty goes a looooonnngggg way in this field.
valentinecrow
Jul. 6th, 2008 11:17 pm (UTC)
Sorry I can be unclear sometimes - I didn't mean just here, as I said to someone else I like and think this community is needed. I meant in the whole fandom with respects to the art trade. But I see alot of people don't think it hurts, and that's fine, I was just curious how the general populous feels about it.

EXCELLENT Icon btw, my bf played that video to a fellow player on an online game and the kid kept singing into the mic for a few hours afterward. *sigh* such bad influences ;)
rharwen
Jul. 6th, 2008 09:12 pm (UTC)
I don't feel it hurts us as a whole. I know being related to or involved with someone getting reported can occasionally come back to bite you in the ass. Fortunately I've never had a problem.

And Generally, if I'm commisioning someone for the first time, and something red-flags in my mind, I do a google site search for their known alias' in relation to this group. If they come up, I read the review + comments and decide for myself whether to risk it or not.
averageeveryday
Jul. 6th, 2008 10:57 pm (UTC)
Money is tight these days. I don't think Artist's Beware is the culprit.
valentinecrow
Jul. 6th, 2008 11:13 pm (UTC)
Never said it was. I think its a great community, something we need to have. I'm not just talking about what is said here, but on FA, DA, FAP, etc. Anyplace allowing comments or forums, etc. I have heard the PogoRoo drama elsewhere too, same with the complaints listed.
thaily
Jul. 6th, 2008 11:10 pm (UTC)
Easy, always be open, honest and civil with your customers.

If there's one person who's going to start a ruckus about how sucky an artist you are to do business with but there's a dozen people who say they were satisfied with your service then anyone who believes that one person would probably have been a poor customer anyway in the sense that they are looking for faults and excuses to get wound up over.

Artist recommendations are allowed here too, all we can do is provide the information. What other people do with said information is up to them.
actonrf
Jul. 7th, 2008 01:25 am (UTC)
In a way I say yes, I had bad luck with a few artist to where I will not commission sombody under 21 less there have prior experience. There will be exceptions but I feel some young artist have not leaned responsibility yet. I speak as a person who runs an Ebay Side business, Last year I turn 2000 profit from 5000 sales. If I did what some artiest did to me I would been kicked off Ebay a long time ago.

As I think about I wonder some fury artist realize than running a art commission business is more than just drawing pictures. Low points I see is the failure in meeting customer satisfaction by putting out quality product in a reasonable amount of time and feedback to the customer.
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