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Sketchkat and Tiggie

Hey all, I just wanted to warn fellow fursuit makers about a bad experience with some commissioners I had. They ordered a pair of black outdoor footpaws ($81 with shipping to the UK!) and later added on a pair of white handpaws ($75 with shipping). I completed the items and sent them off. Got a response back from them in my email today:

"Hi we received our feet and paws today, weren't really happy with any of them. The feet are more like glue than paws. They look and feel horrible. the size was to tight to ware because of all the glue on the strching parts of the slippers made them no longer stretch. as for the hand paws they were un-wearable by me I give them to sketch which she likes them, one of the pads is coming off and they haven't been worn properly yet, I will fix this my self. Sorry this is all bad news. We have a lot of fursuit stuff and recognise quality. As to your stuff its not worth what you sell it for in our opion either that or we had a bad batch from you. Good luck in the future. I would suggest sowing the pads on the inside rather than glue would make them a lot better.
Feet I don't know what to suggest other than if your going to glue the stretching bits get one size bigger as they won't fit ----- we don't want a refund---- we can't use the paws but at least it gave us an expensive laugh. Thanks Tiggie "

I was of course a bit insulted. An "expensive laugh?" But I remained cool and, though we specifically state on the website that we offer no refunds, I decided to make an exception since, apparently, the quality of my work was so horrible on these items.

"I'm sorry, but there's really no reason to be insulting like that. If there are that many problems with the items, you are more than welcome to return them for a FULL refund. I don't know what happened with the paws--the measurements for the patterns were correct. Also, you do realize that you told me your measurements were 8.5 cm x 7.5 cm? That was a bit confusing, so I used the attached photos. Your hand was 8 x 3 3/4 inches, and I used the pattern which matches that size. I don't understand how they are completely unwearable for you. Being a bit too tight or too loose is expected in some areas of the paws, as I don't make a pattern directly from your hand. As for the paw pads, it is not possible to sew them in and actually, most paw makers I know don't even bother to shave down the area that has the paw pads--they simply glue them onto the pile of fur. I think in that aspect, I provide a bit more quality than a lot of others. I also try to make sure I go around the edges of the pads one last time to make sure it is attached completely and does not have obvious gaps between the fur and the pad itself. It's possible I missed one of them, and if so it's my mistake, but I doubt one of them is actually "coming off" considering how meticulous I am about them.

When it comes to the feet, I find it a bit funny that they were too small, as I actually bought them a size too large. They are not a stretchy slipper base, like we normally use--they are canvas shoes, because there are no slippers of the type we normally use available in a size 5 1/2 (USA measurement). There is no "stretchy part" that would be hindered by the glue. Is it possible they are supposed to be a wide width? What is it about the feet causes them not to fit--the length, or the width? I'm sorry you feel that they look "horrible"--they're the same style I use to make all of my feet (unless they're three-toed, of course). If you don't like the style, I don't know why you commissioned me.

Once again, since you're so utterly unhappy with every aspect of the items, I'm going to offer you a full refund if you would like to return them to me. I don't see why you would want to keep them just for an "expensive laugh" when you could easily get your money back."

I think you can tell that I was a bit suspicious, especially with the handpaws. If the same pattern matches other people with that hand, why would it be completely unwearable for him? He quickly responded:

"Okay i do see your point a little here, I will post the feetpaws back if you want to do a refund, The hands how ever i have sown my self around 2 of the pads. I dont want bad fealing and as i chose to do this i will keep them as there still verry cute even if they dont fit me becase they fit sketch.
i dont get how if i sent a picutre of my hand with the tape it wont fit some things wrong. Never mind worse things happen at see.
I will send the feetpaws back for a refund of the Cost if you want to though. if so let me know and ill post it back"

Now he wants a refund, but only for the feet. Despite the fact that he can't wear the handpaws. He'll just give them to someone else who has tiny hands. My response:

"You "don't want bad fealing," yet you insult me like that in your first email? That's strange. I still would like to know what causes the handpaws to not fit--I went by your measurements, so they should fit fine. Are you indeed saying that they are too small?
"i dont get how if i sent a picutre of my hand with the tape it wont fit some things wrong." What I meant was that unless you scan your hand for me or send me a tracing of your hand, I cannot make an exact pattern that will fit every single aspect of your hand--the pinky of the paw might be too long, the thumb might be too short, et cetera. I do not make exact patterns to match every hand. I use the length and width to make sure that it will fit the general size of the hand. Now, in regards to your handpaws, I have sent some attached images that show the measurements of the pattern I used to make your handpaws. As you can see, the length is over the 8" mark (it is 9") and the width is a whopping 5". Even if you gave a full inch give for the seams (it is normally 1/2 inch), they should still fit. So, yes, I would like to know what causes them to not fit your hand. If it's a problem with my pattern, it's something I suppose I should know about.
When it comes to the refund, I will only offer a refund if you return both items. It is not our policy to give refunds (as you can see on our website: www.savageturtlestudios.com ), but since you were so completely unhappy with both items, I decided to make an exception and offer one."

I attached pictures just to show him how big the pattern really was. It dwarfed my hand, which is only 6 1/2 - 7" His measurements, according to the images I had to go by, were 8" x 4", and I used the pattern which fits that size hand. I suppose I could have been nice and given him a partial refund for the feet, but since he complained about both items so vehemently, I assumed he would just want all of his money returned. His response:

"well Ill tell you what ill bin them dont worrie about a refund, Ill let people know my experances thanks"

I responded back with this, because as far as I was concerned, my suspicions were confirmed:

"I had a feeling you would say that, and threaten me. I kind of knew when you started complaining about every aspect (and insulting me, as well), that you were lying. Anyone who would rather throw things away than receive their money back for useless items shows nothing but dishonesty to me. You also seem either unwilling or unable to tell me exactly what is wrong with either of the items. I know that you're not going to throw them away, as that would be just plain stupid. But feel free to lie about me to others. Lie and tell them that I messed up your items and then refused to offer a refund, or whatever you would like to do. I think my work speaks for itself, though.

And finally, his response:

"please do not talk to me or reply to this. Tomrow i will show you a picture of the feetpaws riped up. just to prove it dosent matter to me, you take offence to easy , the post has been removed. and just learn from this and so will i."

Okay, well. That's a waste of money. Why not just return them?? I spent time out of my life to make those items, and now you're just going to rip them up? Nice.

He then went over to fursuit to complain about us. It of course got deleted, as that's not the place to complain about such things, but here it is anyway. :) My response to the different complaints is in bold. I was going to post similar comments in response, but it got deleted before I got a chance.

"I would like to write to you about my fur suit buying experience:

I received a set of foot-paws and hand-paws from www.savageturtlestudios.com<. I paid $81.00USD for a set of white hand paws and $75.00USD for a set of foot-paws. For the hands I sent sizes with a tape as requested. I considered this unusual as I have previously bought 3 other sets of hand paws before. [ Is he saying it's odd to get measurements for paws, so that they fit? Keep in mind that he sent me measurements of 8.5 cm x 7.5cm (3.5 in x 3 in) so it's a good thing he sent me five huge pictures of his hand being measured in all kinds of weird positions. ]

Upon receipt, two of the paw pads were falling off as I got them out of the postage box. They were glued on as opposed to sewn on and had a very lumpy feel to the pads, I assume due to their choice of glue. So I go to try them on, alas they had NO chance in hell of fitting….. Ah well :( [ As I said in an email to him, I'm pretty meticulous about how well I glue on those paw pads. It's also funny how suddenly it's TWO of them that are falling off, when before he told me it was only one. He later tells me he has "sown" them on himself, in order to fix them. I'm sure anyone who has worked with hot glue before knows it's damn near impossible to sew through it. :) I've broken big yarn needles from trying. ]

I tried the foot-paws next which were intended for my partner. When I got them out of the box the slipper was showing on the bottom [ Yes, because that's what he ordered. That's the outdoor style we do, and it's what he specifically asked for! ] and there was a very crude paw shape, which looks like a wide slipper with sausages on and covered in fur. The glue is all over the top of the fur [ I took pictures before sending them off, and I can assure you, there was no glue all over the top of the fur. ] and the whole paw is as hard as a rock. The fur doesn’t sit right as the glue has seeped into the fur. We ordered a size larger than normal so they would fit easily; however when my partner got here and tried them on: No go. Way too small….. Why too small when we ordered a size too big? Looking at them closely I can see the stretching parts of the slipper have been glued together and cannot move! [ Yes, why too small? You ordered a size larger, and I bought a size larger than THAT, so apparently Sketchkat has a size 4 shoe size. If anything, they should be too big, as the shoes were a size 6. And as I said in my email, I did not use a slipper. I used a canvas shoe. The top of which was glued in place, because that's what you're supposed to do when working with canvas shoes -- remove the laces and glue the tongue to the shoe. ]

They will not go on my girlfriend’s feet what-so-ever. They look and feel terrible; added to the fact they won’t fit because of how they are glued in, I am not totally happy.

Due to this I have given my partner the hand paws intended for me as they fit her properly. Note: my hands are size XXL and my partner’s size is S….. I had to repair the paws myself and they are a bit better now.

So with regards to my dealing with savageturtlestudios I wouldn’t give them much credit as I have bought a hell of a lot of fur suit stuff before from other makers and never have had things so appalling. I have told savageturtlestudios that I don’t want a refund, Ill treat this as a ‘buyer beware not all expensive fursuit stuff is worth it’ experience. [ Expensive? You think $136 for those two items is expensive? ]
I do realise that fursuit stuff isn’t easy to make and I went on pictures.

I doubt however that everyone that has bought anything from savageturtlestudios has had a bad experience: I bet they can do some nice stuff. It’s just a shame that what I got wasn’t up to standard... I am sorry if this upsets them but it upset me considering I spent over $200.00US [ It was $156 total. Shipping was exactly $20.20. That's $136. ] with postage. I'm not saying they are not worth buying off, just letting you know my opinion.


sorry for the spellings,

i tookt his off after the seller emailed me when i emailed her and she said i was rude and nast. [ I have no idea what he's talking about. I didn't call him rude and nasty... though he certainly was. Plus, I'm a guy. :) ] oh well I was not trying to be horible just let her know what her items were like when i recived them. ah well life moves on. Im not geting a refund as i dont want one id rather not bother becase of how she was to me when she spoke to me"

And that's about it. It could have been worse, I know, but I figured that since he decided to go public with it, we may as well go public with it too (in the correct community). :) And just as a little treat, here are the pictures I took before sending the items off:

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


( 53 comments — Leave a comment )
May. 28th, 2008 05:28 am (UTC)
Wow... that does sound horriffic. I certainly see nothing wrong with the feetpaws aside from the fact that they look more along the lines of realistic, so maybe that's his gripe? Unless he asked for realistic feet?

As for the hands, you really should consider sewing instead of hot glueing -- almost all fabric pads are sewn, only latex gets glued, as its... well, latex. And maybe that is latex and I could be totally off, can't entirely tell, though. In which case, get some e-6000 to glue down your latex parts, and you should barely get a bitch about pawpads not staying on. Hot glue just doesn't quite cut it with latex.

Still, though, the products look nice to me. I can't touch and feel them, but it really sounds like this guy is just griping to gripe.
May. 28th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC)
You know what? After this, I'm going to probably try and figure out a way to sew them in. Though I really don't think it's possible with this style. They're not just flat fleece (which obviously would be simpe enough to sew), but they're fleece on top of giant pieces of squishy foam.
(no subject) - valdyrfenris - May. 28th, 2008 09:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - May. 28th, 2008 10:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 28th, 2008 05:49 am (UTC)
Just to be completely honest:

I've delt with them six or seven times over the past couple of years and they've been good repeat customers. I've never had any problems with either of their measurements or anything. I get the impression that Tig has a temper but Sketch usually pops up and reels him in shortly thereafter. So I dunno about that. Sounds like he let that get the better of him, especially if he posted in public and then thought better of it / removed it.

However there are a couple of things in your emails that are kind of -- not quite red flag, but not quite the ideal, either. Honestly more than a couple. It's (I really don't mean this in a condescending or sarcastic way dude) probably because you're fairly new to this kind of stuff. It happens; it definitely happened to me more than once. I'm just kind of playing the devil's advocate here.

I'm not saying that if someone doesn't like what they get they should be rude, short or insulting, but -- I guess what I'm saying is that's just customers. If they get something they don't like they are probably going to email you while you're unhappy about it. I mean, it's nice when they're nice, and I personally try to check myself if I get something I'm unhappy with, but them's the breaks. Not everyone is gonna do that by far. And the worst thing you can do in that kind of situation is go on the defence. Don't re-examine your own work; wait for them to point out exactly what was wrong, like you started to. I agree with you in that I don't think this is that big a deal, but I also think you guys both kinda played into it.

Learning experience if nothing else, though. Be careful with canvas shoes for paws, btw.. hot glue doesn't work out very well with them at all.


Edited at 2008-05-28 05:50 am (UTC)
May. 28th, 2008 08:24 pm (UTC)
I used canvas for my own suit's feet. Worked fine for me. :)

I'm starting to wonder if the glue didn't melt during shipment. It's the only way I can think of to explain the vast differences between what I sent off, and what they received.
(no subject) - joecifur - May. 28th, 2008 08:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 28th, 2008 06:07 am (UTC)
Sketchkat and Tig have been good to me so far :) I made Sketchkat some hand and footpaws and they both seemed happy enough about it to recommission me a couple more times.
May. 28th, 2008 08:24 pm (UTC)
Well that's because your feet aren't "sausages covered in fur!" :P
May. 28th, 2008 06:23 am (UTC)
Is it possible something happened in the shipping process? Humidity/climate changes, etc...

I'm not at all familiar with this medium or glue types used with it and such, or how conditions would effect it, just speculating.
May. 28th, 2008 06:45 am (UTC)
Im sorry for being rude in the beggning but i was quite unhappy becase of the state the items were in, as said i did distroy the feetpaws as they fit no one and were in an apoling state, the handpaw pads were coming off and i had two sow three of them back on the handpaws didnt fit me what so ever and my hand hasnt grown the over look of them is rather nice but with all the glue they feal verry weird and ruff but, as said my Gf sketchkat wanted to keep the handpaws as they are Cute, but no use to me the comisoner, hence why i didnt want to send the iems back as you said we had to send it all or nothing, so yea.
Im sorry for haveing a go at you But yea i was pritty upset at the time. you didnt help by sending what you sent back eather.
I have now ruffly have had baout 30 diffrent items made between Bettlecat, jocifur and lots ofthers and not had a problem
I do get anger problems at times, im quick to temper i do i know this and there isnt any thing i can realy do as i got testoerone problems ( medical) and skechkat is the " oh shit dave said this i better carm him down bit" in our reationship and i love her. so im sorry but yea thats the way things go.
May. 28th, 2008 06:49 am (UTC)
also id like to add if thoes are the same hand and feetpaws some thing happend in the post as they wernt that good they had semms falling apart and glue all over them wich was easy showed up in light
(no subject) - valdyrfenris - May. 28th, 2008 07:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sketchkat - May. 28th, 2008 12:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - quaylak - May. 28th, 2008 01:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - solid_squid - May. 28th, 2008 10:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - iluvhistory - May. 28th, 2008 07:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sketchkat - May. 28th, 2008 10:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - May. 28th, 2008 08:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - May. 28th, 2008 08:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tiggie_friend - May. 28th, 2008 09:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - May. 28th, 2008 10:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 28th, 2008 10:30 am (UTC)
I knew of the style of the feetpaws as I was the one who commissioned those (Tig commissioned the hand paws for himself)
I did ask for "outdoor" type - I didn't expect a canvas shoe though

Despite my feetsize being 4.5 / 5 UK, even when they are size 6 they didn't fit because the tongue of the shoe being too low, it was pressing on top of my feet and I got "pins and needles" from just standing up in them.
Was difficult to get the backs on too (since the top was too low and rubbing against my feet and hurting with the glue)

Hand paws were simply too small for Tig (when you say the size "dwarfed" your hand, yes, he really is a huge person)
My hands are tiny, but they fit me beautifully.
I imagine they didn't fit in the wrists too well for Tig because they wrap around my wrists as they should and don't slip

I'm only saying this just to point out from an artist to another artist - nothing malicious :)
May. 28th, 2008 01:42 pm (UTC)
You see, THAT is more of what we were looking for as far as feedback as to why the items didn't fit. I can understand being annoyed when you receive a product that you cannot use, but we couldn't understand WHY they weren't useable because Tig didn't explain. We went into great detail about what we did as far as setting up the patterns, but he didn't reply with anything we could understand or anything that would tell us why this whole thing went so wrong. All we wanted was some form of clarification. We don't want people to be displeased with what we make, so tell us what happened. Not "your work isn't worth what you charge thnx anyway."

I don't know about JakeJynx, but I'm still baffled by the fact that those handpaws did not at ALL fit Tig. You got those pics we sent, right? Of the pattern we used? Those were 9 inch paws! It just amazes me that somehow, they ended up not fitting in the slightest. And if they fit YOUR hand and you say you have tiny hands...I'm even more confused. My hands are 7 inches and they were too big on me.

Anyway, I'm not saying that to be arguementative, nor call you both liars or anything like that. I'm simply trying to put it into perspective about WHY we were both confused and how frustrating it was to be insulted with no explanation. We're not trying to say that mistakes don't happen, but we can't figure out how all of that went wrong. I'm personally sorry the feet didn't fit, but we had quite a time trying to find a shoe small enough for you. The canvas shoes were our only option at the time. :\
(no subject) - thrivis - May. 28th, 2008 07:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - quaylak - May. 28th, 2008 07:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thrivis - May. 29th, 2008 07:44 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - May. 29th, 2008 02:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - May. 28th, 2008 08:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 28th, 2008 11:57 am (UTC)
Ouuugh, that sounds like a ghastly experience, poor thing.

I don't know much about fursuit things, (I've always wanted to try making one, but they seem far too difficult!) but that does sound a little suspicious to me.

Those paws are super-cute, btw!
May. 28th, 2008 01:25 pm (UTC)
If they're really as awful and damaged as they're supposed to be, I dont know why they dont just take a photo... if they're covered in glue and falling apart. It would clear the whole thing up. You offered a refund too, and without evidence! what more do they expect you to do? :/
May. 28th, 2008 01:36 pm (UTC)
a lot of aspects of poor workmanship are really hard to see in photos unfortunately, especially with black fur.
(no subject) - lozpie - May. 28th, 2008 01:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadsdf - May. 28th, 2008 02:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 28th, 2008 03:20 pm (UTC)
Honestly, if they'd paid up and didn't want a refund. You should have just let it be.
May. 28th, 2008 03:36 pm (UTC)
We thought the same thing afterwards, but we felt we had a right to know what went wrong for the sake of not having this situation repeat itself with future commissioners. As JakeJynx mentioned, if it's something with our patterns, we need to know so we can fix them. If the shoes didn't work, why? We wanted to learn from potential mistakes, but we didn't get any specifics about the problems, only that everything was "unwearable." As artists, we're always looking to improve, but we can't if you don't give us some sort of critique that goes beyond saying, "it's bad."
(no subject) - helen_hedgey - Nov. 2nd, 2008 09:59 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tiggie_friend - May. 28th, 2008 03:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 28th, 2008 05:52 pm (UTC)
were just adding some images. we have not done any thing to these at the point of these images. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/tiggiefriend/P5280006.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/tiggiefriend/P5280002.jpg thats the worst of them they look worse in rl, but yea ive fixed 3 of the pads my self, and the greenstuff behind you cant see in the pick but the paddin is like a green couler so makes it show more in rl
May. 28th, 2008 06:29 pm (UTC)
Those are really fuzzy.
The photos I mean.
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - thrivis - May. 29th, 2008 07:45 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - May. 28th, 2008 11:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 29th, 2008 01:56 am (UTC)
Seems like alot of this was miscommunication.
It dosn't help that Tiggy dosn't seem to type very well.
There was also no need to threaten to "show the ripped up" product. THat was just RUDE. As an artist, if someone threatend to rip up a peice of work I drew for someone, I would be livid.
May. 29th, 2008 03:23 pm (UTC)
I felt the exact same way when I read that he wanted to rip up the feet, take pictures, then send them to us. It seemed like the biggest slap in the face over a situation that may not have been Jake's fault. I tried to imagine working on a piece of art for hours on end, sending them to a commissioner, then having them be unhappy with it and tearing it up. And of course, having the gall to take pictures of the torn up pieces strewn about and sending them to me.

The thought still makes my blood boil, but Jake is right; they were his items to do what he pleased with. But it's always nice to know that something you spent time out of your life on was so easily destroyed. If they were in such a horrendous state as they claimed, cleaning them up and reselling them wouldn't have been a bad option. Showing some interest in salvaging the item would have shown respect to the artist, at least, but...oh well, I guess.
(no subject) - tiggie_friend - Sep. 22nd, 2008 11:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tiggie_friend - Sep. 22nd, 2008 11:28 am (UTC) - Expand
Sep. 27th, 2008 01:54 am (UTC)
omg the hands and the paws are fucking adorable <3. That person obviously doesent know quaitlie when he sees it >:U. The feet paws look large to me. The gloves they are smallish looking but im sure theyre a good size IRL. Its becuase the sleeve is short in the pic thats all. But they look very well made. Im sorry that you had to deal with that kinda insult.
Nov. 1st, 2008 08:18 pm (UTC)
I can appreciate that 'expensive laugh' might not have been the most tactile thing to say, but I think your reaction was way, way over-sensitive. You've clearly never worked in retail =P
Nov. 10th, 2008 09:56 pm (UTC)
I don't think my reaction was over-sensitive. That implies that I actually got upset about it.

And I do work in retail.
(no subject) - helen_hedgey - Nov. 10th, 2008 10:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - helen_hedgey - Nov. 10th, 2008 10:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jakejynx - Nov. 14th, 2008 04:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - helen_hedgey - Nov. 15th, 2008 07:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
( 53 comments — Leave a comment )


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