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If an amateur punk rock band wanted to use my artwork in a flier, should I charge them for usage? How much, if so?
Also, can someone help me to write a contract about it being a limited print run only for this one set of concert fliers?
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( 15 comments — Leave a comment )
aazhie
Jan. 28th, 2008 12:51 am (UTC)
arts
if you are feeling generous and the art is premade, you could allow a relatively cheap charge or for free if they are willing to promote your art on the flier (yay!). as far as a contract goes, i would just write up your general commission type contract, but include how long they can use the art (specify the piece) for, and maybe include that you need to see and OK a final draft of the flier before it goes to print. If the art is stuff that is already made, just change the terms on the commission thing so it refers ro previously created artworks by grrowly.
kiriska
Jan. 28th, 2008 12:53 am (UTC)
Hmm. Depending on how well I know the people involved, I probably wouldn't -- especially if there'll be credit on the flyer itself ("artwork by name" probably real small at the bottom). If they're total strangers though, $5-20 depending on how many they're making? (Completely unprofessional estimate there, that's just how much I think I'd charge.)

For a contract, it could probably be something as simple as "Usage of (Your Name)'s (Artwork Name) by (Band Name) is to be used for a limited print run of (#) of copies between the dates (Date) and (Date). No rights were transfered and further usage of (Artwork Name) beyond the above specified will not be authorized without further negotiations and consent of (Your Name)." And then have every member of the band and yourself sign it.
(Deleted comment)
space_mutt
Jan. 28th, 2008 01:20 am (UTC)
It's an indie punk rock band. If we were talking professionals, $100+ is reasonable, but for something tiny like this it's kinda excessive.

Growly, if you wanna charge em, work out a price based on their budget and what you're comfortable with. If you wanna get on their good side, let em use it for free (crediting you, of course), and see if they might be interested in commissioning some paid work from you in the future.
thaily
Jan. 28th, 2008 01:27 am (UTC)
I don't think it matters if the band is professional or not, if the artist is professional he/she has a right to charge professional rates. In fact, if they don't and the word gets out, professional customers will also want a discount and it'll open a whole new can of unpleasant worms.

Giving away your work for free or for a discounted rate doesn't attract customers who are willing to pay your normal rates.

OP's call of course.
growly
Jan. 28th, 2008 01:28 am (UTC)
That is a very, very good point I hadn't considered.
thaily
Jan. 28th, 2008 10:11 am (UTC)
Neither did I until I had people asking for similar work as to what I had given away for various reasons; gifts to friends, birthday gifts, just wanting to try something out etc.

Now-a-days if I give something away I tell people "If anyone asks how much it cost you, tell them it would set them back for x amount."

Even people who initially were willing to pay for the work will sometimes grow resentful of the notion of paying if someone else got the same for free, even if they got it for a valid reason like a birthday.

Nevermind the moochers, at one point I had people messaging me out of nowhere and after a few minutes of normal conversation, casually drop their birth date and character decription.

Uh, no.
jtbeckett
Jan. 28th, 2008 01:20 am (UTC)
I have some standard liscencing contracts here I can look through them and see if I can reword one to apply to artwork as opposed to music for you... And from my experience, it's best to ask them how many fliers they intend to print, then put about 150% that number in the contract saying $X for no more than X copies... that way they have a little wiggle room, but they have a definite limit. Also, you can charge less if they credit you... unless it's a band you don't wish to be associated with, then you charge them the full amount regardless and state in the contract that they must NOT credit you. We've never gotten artwork for just fliers, usually when we buy artwork, it's for rights to use it on all album covers... however many we end up making... (don't tell our artist this, but we have an unwritten part where we would give them a bonus if our sales skyrocketed... we would want that to be a surprise to her)

I'm totally off track here, though...

I'd say depending on the band's income, and the number of copies, and whether or not you're wanting to be credited... anywhere between half a cent per copy to 10 cents per copy, if we're talking color 11x14 posters premade art... If they're comissioning you to make something, just add the commission price to that. (Sorry for such a big disparity, but unless you have specifics on the terms, it's hard to gauge)
thaily
Jan. 28th, 2008 01:25 am (UTC)
The intent of the flyers is to sell tickets/cds/merchandise, since they'll be using your art commercially you'd be a chump if you didn't charge a fee. You don't have to charge much if you don't want to, but you should charge something. Maybe an x amount flyer for pre-made art and an x amount a flyer + commission cost for custom work.

This link covers licensing I think.
anuvia
Jan. 28th, 2008 01:54 am (UTC)
I have no idea on how much you should charge, but personally I'd cut them some kind of deal for taking the time to actually ask you instead of just yanking it from the net and sticking it on a flier.
thrashbear
Jan. 28th, 2008 02:08 am (UTC)
I'm speaking only for what I would personally do, so please take it with a grain of salt.

Having worked in the indie punk rock scene umpteen moons ago, I understand that most of these people are not made of money, and every dime has to be stretched. Musicians are artists too (often starving ones just like us), so I'd consider some kind of professional courtesy in allowing them to use my material.

It really depends on a variety of circumstances, Kiriska brought up a valid point of how well you know these folks. If they are friends, I'd comp them as a form of helping them out. Even if they weren't friends, I'd still help them if I had the time. Also, keeping in mind that their potential success is also your potential success, I would be happy to provide stuff for free or cheap now, on the hopes that I could ride in on their coattails if their band takes off later on (*knock knock* Hi, guys, remember me? I made the arts that helped get you here, howzabout throwing me a bone?) I'd be happy with proper credit on the flyer and a couple free tickets to the show, maybe with the promise for more paid work later and spreading the word to other bands.

In my current circumstances, I have been asked to do free art for some nonprofit charities, and as much as I want to I have too many paid or friend-gift projects to make anything more. My plate is too full as it is. If a band I knew wanted something from me (unlikely considering my medium, but but you get the idea), as honored as I would be I'd have to tell them "Sorry guys, I'm just too busy" or "Yeah, i can help, and here's my rates" and leave it at that. But it was not too long ago when I would jump at any chance to do art, just for art's sake.

But that's just me, your mileage may vary. Sorry if that was rambling and of little use.
lilenth
Jan. 28th, 2008 01:16 pm (UTC)

Musical instruments cost a pretty penny just like an artist's equipment does. Even the most basic band should be able to afford a reasonable amount to pay for the art they want.

Never ever do work on spec based on future "possibilities" time is money after all.
captpackrat
Jan. 28th, 2008 03:09 am (UTC)
An amateur band is unlikely to have much money to pay for artwork. If you like their music, perhaps you could work out a deal for something else, like free tickets or CDs.
gas_mask_dragon
Jan. 28th, 2008 08:02 am (UTC)
Whatever you decide to do, best of luck with that, and grats to you as well I think ^^()
skanrashke
Jan. 28th, 2008 12:05 pm (UTC)
My personal opinion is, if they're amateurs then the only real benefit you'll have from them is publicity. Tell them they need to put your name and maybe a website on the bottom left/right corner or something.
If they're doing a ticketed show, then tell them how much you'd like based on their takings- if its a large showing(doubtful, but possible) then charge up to 100ish. If its a moderate or smaller show, then 15-30ish is acceptable, I think. Just tell them its for the one flyer and they can't reuse the image.
lilenth
Jan. 28th, 2008 01:30 pm (UTC)

Ignore all the people telling you "zomg indie bands don't have a lot of money". I highly doubt if a band is in a position to be having advertising made up that they're entirely broke especially since they're probably paying someone to print the work and to put it up/hand it out, and don't throw them a bone because zomg they "might" give you future work, if they flop or decide not to use you in future then you're out of pocket, you need to get some compensation at least. "Throwing people bones" is a rather bad business tactic, it's a gamble at best and likely to cost you money at worst, because everyone expects a "bone" after that.

People don't respect anything they get for free. Generally if they have to pay for it, they'll respect it a whole lot more.

Your equipment and time used to make that image is valuable, the image is valuable and you most certainly should not give it away for "cheap or free" because of some myth of artistic brotherhood. Rights to use an image are expensive.

I would suggest if you think you're going to be running into similar issues? Pick up a copy of the Artist's guild handbook. It containing pricing information and general business tips. See here http://www.gag.org/ for more information on that.

As a base line for advertising work, you can choose a flat fee for a limited print run or charge per amount of posters but then you're relying on them to report how many they've used to you. Personally I would go with a flat fee for a limited print run, and that depends on how many they're printing.

If we're talking about a print run of say 150 advertisements using your work? I'd second the $100 minimum with £100 per additional hundred advertisements.

These people are advertising to sell their tapes/CDs/tickets, basically they stand to make money out of this so charge them professional rates because they're involved in a professional business.
( 15 comments — Leave a comment )

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