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Do not work with DredWalker

I was commissioned to do some character work for a person called DredWalker on Deviantart. Everything seemed ok when we both agreed to work on his commission piece. So DredWalker said he would send me the first money order in the mail. Which was fine with me so I waited for the money order because I know it's takes about a week to come in the snail mail. First week nothing ok that's fine I can wait, second week nothing ok myabe the mail is slow, third week I e-mailed him back letting him know that I did not get his first money order and that I wouldn't start his project without him making the first payment.  I was charging him a $100 for one human character and one animal character. Our agreement was half up front and the rest of the money when the commissions was done. I'd post the image in my gallery with a water mark and an extra graphic because I knew water marks could be removed.

So he says ok and that it must have gotten lost in the mail, I say that's fine stop payment on that one and just send me other one when you get the money. After that 3 days later I finally got the first money order and  I started on the sketches them showed it to him he approved, then I moved on to the flat colors and he approved of that. Afterwards I would post each piece step by step in my gallery just in case he wanted changes. By the third stage he asked me to make a few changes which I did and it took me an two days. Working with DredWalker seemed to be going well. Here's the link with DredWalker saying he likes what going on so far and said he sent me an e-mail. In the e-mail he did ask for a few changes which I did.

However there was a problem at the end where I asked him to pay me the remaining $50 because I was finished with his commission.   DredWalker said he'd pay me by the end of the week with a personal check, I had to remind him that I didn't take personal checks again I gave him the reason why. Then I got another e-mail from him saying he wanted to see the final image. I didn't think much of it I sent him the final image with a water mark and extra graphic. As I stated here in my journal which I linked him to in our first e-mails back and forth.http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/journal/14463671/

Then I got another e-mail from him saying he could barely see the image. So I sent him a larger image but I still kept the graphics on it until I was paid. Which is here  http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/art/DredWalker-s-Dimiri-Done-70509230 let me know if you have a hard time seeing the image people. Again DredWalker e-mails me saying he couldn't really see that image because of the water mark and extra graphics on it and if I could remove them so he could have a better look. ( Oh like I haven't heard that one before! Ha! ) I told him one and they would stay until I was paid the rest of my money.  DredWalker then goes into this rant saying that he already sent me $50 and that I should trust him with the final image. I again said no the graphics stay until I am paid the rest of my money. He then posts in his journal that I cheated him out of money and that he never really got the project.

It's in the link below which you can flow to other links with talks between me and DredWalker. I also copied and paste his journal to mine and address each thing in it.

http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/journal/15658247/

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Comments

lilenth
Dec. 9th, 2007 07:56 pm (UTC)

I have tried to give Ebony good advice several times in the past, it has not gone well. In return she has bad mouthed me and other artists to customers behind our backs amongst other things. While yes, I have found her behaviour to be aggravating on occasion, my main wish is for her to pull her boot straps up and at least attempt some professionalism; I'd like to see her learn and grow as a person and as an artist but this incident? is just a repeat of previous incidents which are well within Ebony's ability to stop if she'd just rethink her behaviour and perhaps try some of the things that I and other artists have been suggesting for years that she try.

I freely admit I did post some of her art to an art snark community, because it was snarkable. The odd painful poses and flattened nature of the two pieces I saw struck me as rather odd. Posting someone's art to a snark community doesn't mean I'm bothered by them, it just means I think those pieces are snarkable.

Overall I think it's time Ebony heard the truth for once even if what's being said about the quality of her art compared to her pricing might seem unpleasant. She has a fanclub not unlike Snapesnoggers, they rarely tell her anything but how wonderful she is. She could and should be developing incredible skills and yet in nearly five years she's hardly improved. I can understand why you'd assume that I have an issue with Ebony but truthfully I honestly want her to improve her business practices and her artwork.
(Deleted comment)
lilenth
Dec. 9th, 2007 09:00 pm (UTC)

We do appreciate warnings here but we also don't slavishly agree with everything someone says, there is so much Ebony could have done better in this case alone. For all we know the customer could have been fully intending to pay once he saw a complete image not a partially completed image, we'll never know now because Ebony's behaviour would upset and anger anyone, the customer's response in not paying her is petty but it's understandable, who wants to pay an artist who proceeds to abuse you halfway through the transaction? People here will call it when it's a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other.

This wouldn't be the first time when we've had someone come in to "report" someone else only for their own bad business practices to be brought up, examined and advice given on them. I said she overestimates her skills, I've seen her apply for building drawings when perspective is one of the skills she has only a minimal grasp of. Please note that the vast majority of her sold works are either at the low end of her price list or sold when she's having a "sale" this seems to suggest that maybe just maybe her work isn't worth what her pricelist says.

If you're going to trot out things like "grudge-wank" as I recall Ebony was the one who had hysterics in front of an entire forum because someone Ebony didn't like had an account on the site; which was a huge artist site which hundreds of artists use. I do have a very good memory and I do keep abreast of people who are issues in the general art community and Ebony's name comes up a lot, particularly connected to the words "unprofessional" and "hysterical".

I appreciate you are her friend and all but really, outside of her fanclub? Ebony has a less than stella reputation and I think people are going to want to comment on both that and her behaviour towards this customer.
ebony_chan
Dec. 9th, 2007 09:14 pm (UTC)
Actually I think I know you. I'm not sure but I gave you a crit on another art board a while back. You bit my head off for it and have been on my case ever since.
lilenth
Dec. 9th, 2007 09:34 pm (UTC)

If I recall the incident to which I believe you are referring, you did not critique my work at all. As I recall your first account on that site was banned for repeated harassment and rudeness to others, a ban which you evaded to set up a new account with which you began commenting on my thread. Given your behaviour only weeks earlier I was understandably distrustful of your motivations in repeating questions others had already asked. I can now see I was right to distrust your motivations since you apparently interpreted a blatant "I don't trust you, please stop asking questions I've already answered" sentiment to be biting your head off.

Tell me do you ever remember what actually happens in any of the incidents that are becoming common knowledge about you? Or do you actually believe the "version" of events you tell your fanclub/whoever will sympathise with you?
ebony_chan
Dec. 9th, 2007 10:20 pm (UTC)
I knew it. There was no one else on the net who was as hateful as you SI. You always started agruments and brought up personal issues like your doing now. =)

It's nice to see I still have my little internet stalker around. =)
lilenth
Dec. 9th, 2007 10:41 pm (UTC)

I wondered how long it would take you to start on that particular well worn record.

Hateful? I've done nothing but try to help you, I even tried to give you advice here, you ignored it as usual because I wasn't playing into your self made role as a martyr. In the past you've set you fanclub on me, lied about me to others and had repeated hysteric fits at me, the worst I've ever said about you is that you over-price you work, have bad business practices and tend to go off at the slightest thing, and it's not just me, you've done this to others. Guess what? You don't get to play the victim card when the web is littered with your tantrums.

Stalker? The hysterics you had last time when you decided that me being in the same groups/websites as you even though in all but one case I'd joined them before you ever did? Aren't going to work, I've got a solidly established reputation here for straight talking going back more than year.

It's time to grow up Ebony-chan, you want to be a professional, learn to act like it. No Art Director is going to put up with this sort of behaviour from you, flipping your lid and spewing insults because everything doesn't go just the way you want it to? You want to work for heavy metal? You're going to have to do it their way and to be honest, I don't think you have what it takes to knuckle down and handle properly contracted professional work.

Being a professional is a lot more than merely getting paid, it's also how you act and how you do business. Professional and well behaved artists? Get the professional gigs, prima donnas get short shrift. Guess which one you keep being?

And the maddening thing is? YOU have potential, you could be a kick ass artist and you could land that heavy metal cover you want to do, but first you need to take a good long look at how you act and what you want out of life, because presently how you act is in complete opposition to what you want.
ebony_chan
Dec. 9th, 2007 10:46 pm (UTC)
Sure thing love. I'm going to do my commissions now. But you make sure to stay close ok. I'd hate to lose my very own stalker. =)
lilenth
Dec. 9th, 2007 10:55 pm (UTC)

I don't know why I bother, really I don't. You're completely oblivious to the impact you have on others with your behaviour. You're what? Nearly 29 now. Old enough that you should have a modicum of self awareness, yet you remain blissfully ignorant of what is one of the most important parts of being a professional artist.

You've not improved in all the years I've known you, hundreds of people have given you help and critique on all aspects of career artistry, it all goes in one ear and out the other.
ebony_chan
Dec. 9th, 2007 11:00 pm (UTC)
You even kept up with my age to bad your a year off. =) I don't know why you even bother following me around and starting arguments either. But I got you and you got me. Don't leave me now.

I don't think I can live without you. =(

Tell me you love me. =) Please?
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 11:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 11:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
celestinaketzia
Dec. 9th, 2007 09:48 pm (UTC)
Since I was the first one to outright come out and say that I didn't think the commission was worth the price tag, I feel like I should comment to this. It may be a little incoherent and cluttered as I've been awake 32 hours now. (Finals, eep!)

First, my intention was not to say that I didn't think her art "was not good enough". I think she does have potential to really flourish if she gets out of the little mold that she has made for herself. Unfortunately, since it's a winning mold, most artists who fall into it don't like coming out of it.

One of the reasons why I have an issue with the price tag vs the work is because it needs some editing. If someone is paying me $100 for a commission, the first thing I am going to do is run it by a few artists for redlines. Why? Because it's a commission, and a $100 one at that! No one can argue that we don't see our own flaws right away. (And she said she used a reference, so there's no excuse for mistakes.)

So to me that's basically saying that the artist doesn't care about the piece in question, which means they don't care in turn for their commissioner's satisfaction. The only thing to care about is money. On top of that Ebony handled this fellow pretty sourly. It's one thing to warn people about someone, and it's another to go out of your way about it. I wouldn't have been so inclined to speak my mind if all these factors didn't come into play. I don't regret it, and I certainly am not going to delete it. (And deleting comments is against the rules here anyway, if I remember.) Could it have been brought up somewhere else? Sure, I'll admit that, but at least here she can take everything that was said and hopefully use it to her advantage.

Art is special to us, obviously. I'd hope that other artists would want to see their fellow, er, artists grow in their talent. This is no exception to Ebony. I'd like to see her get better, because some of her pieces are genuinely interesting, but they need just a little more push.

I hope I've made some sort of sense... You shouldn't feel bad for the way things played out. You have no control over how we think and react to what's laid out in front of us. Don't feel bad. :)
(Deleted comment)
ebony_chan
Dec. 9th, 2007 10:22 pm (UTC)
Well my my point of view from this is. The prices that are decided are up the the artist and their client. I have no right to point that artist work or their prices down. I mean for what reason? I don't know the amount of time and effort they put into that commission.
(Deleted comment)
arshes
Dec. 12th, 2007 06:07 pm (UTC)
My overall problem after skimming through this mess
Whatever people will pay for is what they will, however it's a payment for a product they're satisfied with.

My overall problem with this thread is that Ebony made it out to make it sound like she wasn't paid at all.

She was paid partial, due to the fact her and the commissioner couldn't come to an agreement. This happens ALL THE TIME. She wasn't shafted the full 100, and even the commissioner apparently tried to pay with a personal check, for reasons she stated she couldn't accept it and the disagreement further continued.

I think it's rather poor taste to also follow the guy around on other forums saying he doesn't pay. That's not truthful, he didn't pay her the full amount she expected when they had a falling out.

She made as much as possible with the disagreement, it's fair to warn users about a possible rip off artist, but what I see is that the guy was willing to pay until they had a disagreement upon vision of the piece.

He doesn't have the original piece, he got whatever she worked on it, and she watermarked it saying "did not pay" - that's not true.

I'm just merely looking at it through a standpoint of a business matter, and see why she did get a success by splitting up the payments so she wasn't completely left in the dust when shit happens.

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